Tesla Model 3 revealed

[Tuna]

otolith said:

There are technologies which create a virtual texture to the surface - so you get the flexibility of a touch screen with the tactility of physical controls.

If you're good with Braille that's fine, but not for hunting for a control on a large surface.

otolith said:

The basic problem is that modern cars have too many features to be sensibly laid out in a set of physical buttons and switches. It's fine for my Lotus, with three knobs and four buttons, but the UI of modern cars is just awful when implemented that way.

True, and it would be madness to go the other way and have a button or dial for each function. It makes sense though for there to be physical controls for the stuff you do fiddle with during most journeys. Hazards, volume, music navigation, temperature, fan, demist, windows and so on.. it's dangerous if you're distracted by having to navigate through some menu system just to change something basic and a complete wind up to have your passenger sitting there in confusion trying to figure out how to answer a hands free call or change tracks.

[Artey]

otolith said:

There are technologies which create a virtual texture to the surface - so you get the flexibility of a touch screen with the tactility of physical controls.

Again, certain functions should have controls with tactical feedback and those controls need to represent one function, like they have had for decades. Having virtual textured buttons on a touchscreen that can display infinite number of layouts doesn't replace that because one button will mean many things requiring user to take their eyes off the road. Unless you have a dedicated section on the screen that only does one thing.

It's not like cars became complex over the last couple of years. This issue has already been cracked over a decade ago.

This is a perfect implementation


This is a rubbish implementation


This is pretty ok. Not as good as no 1, but hopefully Tesla can improve on it, make the controls bigger and more easy to use. Use textured buttons (pointless exercise but hey I don't want to be the traditionalist)


Or can they........

[Artey]

ash73 said:

Artey said:

This is a perfect implementation

Too many buttons! e.g. the only A/C buttons I ever use are AUTO, +/- and MAX.

Me too, doesn't mean the rest is redundant, those who don't rely on Auto will use other buttons.

[rscott]

Touch screens can be a massive improvement in some areas though. I had a Saab 9-3 with touch screen satnav/audio system which was clear and straightforward to use.
Then had a Seat as a courtesy car which had a horrendous non-touch system. I'm a full blown geek (software developer by trade, computer user since the original spectrum) yet still couldn't use it without having to read the manual. Far too many nested menus on the same buttons,etc.

I didn't think Tesla had confirmed the interior of the 3 yet anyway? Thought they'd said it would change a lot before launch?

[rodericb]

otolith said:

There are technologies which create a virtual texture to the surface - so you get the flexibility of a touch screen with the tactility of physical controls.

The basic problem is that modern cars have too many features to be sensibly laid out in a set of physical buttons and switches. It's fine for my Lotus, with three knobs and four buttons, but the UI of modern cars is just awful when implemented that way.

I'd prefer 'three knobs and four buttons' sittng under a huge normal screen which can be programmed by dragging and dropping the control on the screen to the edge of the screen closest to the particular knob or button. The knobs would have detents for feedback.

[Flooble]

rodericb said:

I'd prefer 'three knobs and four buttons' sittng under a huge normal screen which can be programmed by dragging and dropping the control on the screen to the edge of the screen closest to the particular knob or button. The knobs would have detents for feedback.

Sounds like a Garmin?

[otolith]

ash73 said:

Artey said:

This is a perfect implementation

Too many buttons! e.g. the only A/C buttons I ever use are AUTO, +/- and MAX.

Yep, that's horrific and illustrates the problem.

There's a larger question of how much of the stuff that needs a touchscreen you should be fiddling with while actually driving. Voice recognition works pretty well these days, I would be happy with that being used more for things you might reasonably need to alter while driving.

[Tuna]

otolith said:

There's a larger question of how much of the stuff that needs a touchscreen you should be fiddling with while actually driving. Voice recognition works pretty well these days, I would be happy with that being used more for things you might reasonably need to alter while driving.

I'd hesitate to point to any system as being perfect. but at it's core you want to separate the main functions so you can get to them easily without going through a distracting menu. Traditionally (and pretty much by accident), cars did it by grouping controls - heating here, radio there and so on. You very quickly got muscle memory and could put your hand on the relevant control without looking.

Now that cars often have a screen to display stuff, I'd say that having physical buttons to choose the main function still makes sense - the VW system of having a set of buttons around the display to select Radio/Nav/Fuel works, far more than the stalk based menu system they also provide. I notice that BMW's iDrive system has evolved a set of 'shortcut' buttons around the dial which serve the same function.

Personally, I wouldn't want to do without physical climate and volume controls. They're regularly needed, and voice control is an immense faff if you just want to bump the temperature up a notch. In that respect, voice control offers more than it can deliver - even if you solve the problem of reliable recognition, it's the awful embodiment of the 'invisible menu' where you have to figure out the right combination of magic words to do a particular task. If you've ever got lost trying to get the sat nav to resume, you'll know just how distracting it is.

One of the challenges that is sometimes forgotten by the fans of Apple design is discoverability. Apple can get away with it in consumer devices because they actively want to limit the number of things you can do at any one time. That's the polar opposite of a car. If you have a device that has many different functions, you need to be able to find out about them without having to do something mysterious and non-obvious. Minimal interfaces look fantastically cool, and a big screen always looks impressive, but if you have to work out how to do things, or even search through menus to find out what you can do, you're never going to have an easy time with it. The costs of developing and proving a good user interface are immense, and even the best designers often take a few iterations to iron out the bugs.

[otolith]

I'm sure Droid fans have something just as good, but Siri has enough functionality to do everything I would want to fiddle with while driving. Natural language processing avoids the need for multi level menus. Everything you might reasonably want to do can be expressed in a few words.

[Bibbs]

otolith said:

I'm sure Droid fans have something just as good, but Siri has enough functionality to do everything I would want to fiddle with while driving. Natural language processing avoids the need for multi level menus. Everything you might reasonably want to do can be expressed in a few words.

She still doesn't understand me as I've a deep voice, and in my car, she can't hear me due to the noise.

But then the only dial I really use in the car is the volume control on the radio.

AC is always set and running, Sat Nav is rarely used.

[feef]

if it was me, I'd implement configurable physical buttons, maybe half a dozen at most, alongside a touchscreen

buttons I never use :

any of the HVAC buttons other than the screen clearing and temperature control, so I could relegate the internal/external air circulation, the air direction and AC on/off buttons to touch screen

I could relegate pretty much every audio function to somewhere in the touch screen as all I need is a volume control and link to my iPhone for music. The rest of the controls are available via the audio control stalk on the steering column anyway

Parking sensor on/off : it's always on, the only time I think I've turned it off was going through a car-wash, so it could be relegated to a touch-screen item

I'm sure there are others, but they're the ones that come to mind that I just don't need a physical button for

[AnotherClarkey]

I have driven a car with touchscreen controls for most auxiliary functions for four years and have no issue with it. As has been said, there is no need these days to fiddle constantly with heating and ventilation settings and a combination of steering wheel controls and voice command takes care of pretty much everything else I would want to do whilst moving.

When I do need the touchscreen it is mounted near to the line of sight and is easy to use. I would never want to return to hordes of buttons.

[Artey]

https://youtu.be/Z6UYAUyXQjA?t=8m49s

especially the bit starting at 8:59

[Artey]

ash73 said:

It's a bit like high-end audio; the best units have few buttons, whereas naff products have buttons everywhere.

It's nothing like hifi equipment where the number of buttons is defined by number of functions, not the user experience.

[feef]

Artey said:

https://youtu.be/Z6UYAUyXQjA?t=8m49s

especially the bit starting at 8:59

is it just me, or does that entire panel flex when he presses the button at 9:06?

[feef]

ash73 said:

feef said:

if it was me, I'd implement configurable physical buttons, maybe half a dozen at most, alongside a touchscreen

I'd have say 6 buttons that change according to a primary mode switch, e.g. If you select A/C you get A/C buttons, if you select audio you get audio buttons etc. You could also link them to whatever is being accessed on the touchscreen. The buttons should be tactile, with dynamic labels or icons. You could have some essentials on static buttons but I can't think of many, e.g. hazzard lights.

It's a bit like high-end audio; the best units have few buttons, whereas naff products have buttons everywhere.

That's exactly what I'm getting at, but also be able to configure the 'starting point' or default settings of them

[Leithen]

The great advantage of Touch Screens is to be able to have a different UI for different purposes and not be restricted by physical buttons or knobs that have to be used for many different purposes.

However, that equally requires good UI design. With a screen the size of the Tesla's, very large buttons ought to allow easy selection of functions.

[Tuna]

Leithen said:

The great advantage of Touch Screens is to be able to have a different UI for different purposes and not be restricted by physical buttons or knobs that have to be used for many different purposes.

However, that equally requires good UI design. With a screen the size of the Tesla's, very large buttons ought to allow easy selection of functions.

Really, no. Take the example of turning the heating up:

With a dial, you reach across (without looking) and feel the dial turn one click. You know you've done it and how much you've done it by without looking.

With a touch screen, you tap at the screen, having had to look at where your finger is relative to the controls (and check it's in the right mode). You then have to look again (or keep looking) to see if the heating's changed by a little or a lot.

The same applies to switching things on and off. It's not necessarily something you notice on a conscious level, but the extra processing you have to do to compensate for the lack of physical feedback is a real distraction. It's why people buy keyboards to go with their tablets, it's why tablet games have very basic controls. It's why using your phone in the car is illegal. Touch screens are terrible user interfaces in many (not all) circumstances - particularly where you cannot pay full attention to the screen.

[Digitalize]

I feel this touch screen issue is one that won't be a problem to people who grew up using them. For example I and most people I know can text on a touch screen device without looking at the screen purely from muscle memory.

[INWB]

Nobody seems to be talking about voice activation. It has been in cars for a long time but tend to use rubbish engines. The aircon for example could be easy to integrate. What is better than not taking your hands off the wheel at all?