Tesla Model 3 revealed

[Flooble]

Tuna said:

... Check out the discussions on Porsche's move to four cylinder engines to see quite how angry some people can get.

I think some people just have a crippling fear of anything changing. The screams of agony about "they don't sound like V8s" are still ongoing over in the F1 forums. Interestingly you can gauge the age of the poster by what they say should never have changed (V12/V10/V8; any wings at all; skinny tyres; front engines etc.)

[Tuna]

TransverseTight said:

Eventually they'll get cheaper and people who buy with economy in mind will head in the direction of EVs. But for now I'd be worried if I sell cars in the £25k and up sort of range as with Tesla going after that market, you can its possible they might do what they've done to the large premium car market in the USA. Yes as Telsa isn't as "luxurious" as a Mercedes S Class, but it costs as much and still outsells it and the next 2 cars in the sector combined. As for UK... Not enough data to go on.

Yes, the SMMT don't have a line for Tesla yet in their car sales breakdown. However, the total number of 'other imports' has gone up from 323 for the month of March 2015 to 675 this year, so we could make the assumption that all of those are Teslas and put the upper figure for Tesla sales at say 600 a month. That compares with 90,000 a month for Audi, Mercedez-Benz and BMW combined.

As for the S-Class in the US, in 2011 (pre Tesla) they sold 12,000. In 2015 they sold 21,000 (Figures from here: http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2011/01/mercedes-benz... ) In 2015, according to the same site, Tesla sold 26,000 Model S. So the claims they sold more than the S-Class and the next 2 cars in the sector combined seem unlikely. The point here is that Tesla doesn't appear to be harming the big sellers.

The good news is that sales of alternative fuel vehicles has risen dramatically in the UK over the last year - up by 3,000 to 17,000 cars in the year. Of that, 1,300 are Teslas (from their own sales figures). If we assume EVs dominate the alternative fuel market now, EVs have 3.5% of the UK market, and Tesla has about a tenth of that.

[Leithen]

Able to withstand Bioweapon Attack too....

[TransverseTight]

Blaster72 said:

TransverseTight said:

why don't those of you who don't like EVs just shut up and go and read another thread

Sadly, again someone on Pistonheads trying to shutdown conversation just because they don't like it. On this thread we had some good back and forth conversation - ie the whole point of a forum.

Demanding people leave when you don't like it is just silly.

You're right about the i3 though, great car - shame about the looks. BMW made a terrific start with the i3 and I applaud them for what they did. Maybe their next effort will be something really special, who knows. Maybe low sales will force them to reconsider EV's after all. Maybe they just developed it to make sure they met some quote so they could continue to sell lots of "normal cars"

The Saudi issue you mention is an interesting one, the rulers of that country know they are one step away from a deadly revolution and only their oil money and foreign backing that stopping it. Without oil - possible chaos, who knows.

Edited by Blaster72 on Monday 2nd May 05:45

Ignore me. Just being grumpy as it was late. Everyone else feel free to keep posting links to oil sponsored misinformation so I can see how desparate they are getting. What winds me up is people pointing out individual issues in renewable energy and casting the assertion that none of it works. Better go and tell China. .. they installed 15GW of pv last year. There's a very real "danger" if you can call it that they'll out trade the worlds energy producers into oblivion. If they industislise but with renewables how can fossil based economies compete. Not just at making cheap tat, but running call centres, server farms, and er, car manufacturing. Yeah they don't exactly know how to design yet. But you could say that about Hyundai circa 2000. Now look at their offerings. Much more palatable.

I don't have a problem with genuine questions from newbies. It's why I still hang around on PH despite (mostly) having lost my interest in anything that burns oil for its primary source of energy. Don't mitake me for someone uninterested in cars though.

There's a whole new world of stuff to understand... like what happens when you press on the electronic throttle. How does the chemistry release electric from batteries and get into the motor and how does it become motion?

What I really look forwards to is next gen EVs using stuff like solid state batteries made by Satki3 the company Dyson just bought. Very interesting approach which could see costs plummet, volumetric energy denisty increase (though not so sure about energy density per kg). Think if cells drop from the current $300-400/kWh to around $85. The key advantage they can charge at 10C not the 3C current liquid cylindrical cells manage. That means you can charge a 60kWh battery in 6 minutes. Assuming you have some sort of onsite generation as that's going to pull 1MW. Call it total fantasy if you like, but you can use available tech like a 1MW containerised genset and a battery buffer to queue up a bunch of cars. It may even make sense to stick small CCGT plant near motorway junctions that have a business park near by to take the waste heat.

Once batteries get light enough and are available off the shelf, not just for OEMs, there's a good chance I'll be knocking up an electric ultima Might be ready to retire by then and have paid off the mortgage. The scary thought is if you stick 2x tesla rear P90 motors hooked up to a diff, that's a touch over 800hp And this is gen 1 tech! Maybe 4x 200hp at each wheel would be better

[Mr GrimNasty]

TransverseTight said:

why don't those of you who don't like EVs just shut up and go and read another thread

Probably the same reason you, Plunker, Durbster etc. refuse to leave the climate threads alone - eh, sauce for the goose and all that.

I happen to think TESLA produces some fantastic toys, if they did it in a commercially viable way without raping money from innocent people, whilst sanctimoniously pretending it was in any way 'green' or in any way the future of mass transport, they'd have my full blessing.

As for the future of mass transport, EVs, and TESLA especially, are an irrelevant diversion.

[unsprung]

WestyCarl said:

Wow, I was very very impressed. Even before getting in the car the whole process was easy, relaxed, friendly and way better than dealing with any other car maker.

Tesla are truly into the experience of it all, aren't they. There's no "polyester" and no "buy 'em cheap and stack 'em high" salesman culture.

Even for OEMs that do not lead with EVs, perhaps the greatest disruption wrought by Tesla will be to have refocused the industry on that little-acknowledged fact that the customer is... a human.

[TransverseTight]

Mr GrimNasty said:

Probably the same reason you, Plunker, Durbster etc. refuse to leave the climate threads alone - eh, sauce for the goose and all that.

I happen to think TESLA produces some fantastic toys, if they did it in a commercially viable way without raping money from innocent people, whilst sanctimoniously pretending it was in any way 'green' or in any way the future of mass transport, they'd have my full blessing.

As for the future of mass transport, EVs, and TESLA especially, are an irrelevant diversion.

Well you might want to check the last time I posted in the climate threads. I know when I'm talking to a wall. I'm leaving you lot to do some mutual self masturbation posting all the denialist links you can find. What's the page number up to now? And how is the pause going? Actually don't answer I'll go and have a look. See you shouldn't have reminded me

[WestyCarl]

unsprung said:

Tesla are truly into the experience of it all, aren't they. There's no "polyester" and no "buy 'em cheap and stack 'em high" salesman culture.

Even for OEMs that do not lead with EVs, perhaps the greatest disruption wrought by Tesla will be to have refocused the industry on that little-acknowledged fact that the customer is... a human.

Yup. I explained on the phone I'm just interested and not likely to buy for at least 18 months due to company car, however was still treated very well. In fact 1st comment was "let's have a quick look at your licence and then just jump in the car to get you more time in it".

At the end I explained my wife was going to be the difficult one to persuade due to her EV preconceptions. The Sales guy joked that if I could get her to the dealership, he'd take her out in the P90D and do the rest.....

Maybe I just got lucky but is was a very different experience to what I'm used too previously

[Tuna]

WestyCarl said:

Maybe I just got lucky but is was a very different experience to what I'm used too previously

They've learned a lot from Apple on that front.

Dealer attitude can be very variable. I walked into a Lotus dealership in jeans and t-shirt to look at an Elise and was thrown the keys with instructions to bring it back in an hour. Rang another Lotus dealership to be put on hold for 20 minutes, during which the recorded message extolled the virtues of Vauxhall Vans. Go figure.

[RobDickinson]

Tesla stock up 7% on news they plan to scale to 500,000 cars by 2018 rather than 2020

http://electrek.co/2016/05/04/tesla-tsla-surge-mod...

[BigBen]

Tuna said:

WestyCarl said:

Maybe I just got lucky but is was a very different experience to what I'm used too previously

They've learned a lot from Apple on that front.

Dealer attitude can be very variable. I walked into a Lotus dealership in jeans and t-shirt to look at an Elise and was thrown the keys with instructions to bring it back in an hour. Rang another Lotus dealership to be put on hold for 20 minutes, during which the recorded message extolled the virtues of Vauxhall Vans. Go figure.

Before we rush to credit Apple let us not forget that Daewoo also had no haggle no pressure dealerships.

[k-ink]

I like the electric Ultima idea. 800bhp of silky smooth power will be immense.

[TransverseTight]

RobDickinson said:

Tesla stock up 7% on news they plan to scale to 500,000 cars by 2018 rather than 2020

http://electrek.co/2016/05/04/tesla-tsla-surge-mod...

You beat me to it. Now I'm 'worried', I left sticking my reservation in till they had got to about 250,000. Thinking my i3 PCP is up in Jan 2018. I was planning on keeping it 4 years till Jan 2019 just so I'm not in the constant high deprecation curve, but now it looks like Telsa might want to delivery my M3 before end of Q2 2018. #1stworldproblems. As long as they don't deliver before I've paid off the i3 things will be ok. Probably sensible to get it paid off early so I've not got HPI checks coming back with outstanding credit.

A lot of people think it's impossible - but ask Ford how long it takes to go from 0 -1,000,000 units a year on a new Fiesta, and that has a complex fuel system and ICE to install ;-) Not a lump of battery and a waste paper basket sized motor.

[jamoor]

BigBen said:

Before we rush to credit Apple let us not forget that Daewoo also had no haggle no pressure dealerships.

And dacia

Shane the products are total garbage that are undesirable

[Blaster72]

Robert Llewellyn (Red Dwarf actor) has a great little Youtube channel all about EV's.

He's done a nice summary on the Model X launch here.

[iurl]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CoZXJ0lhy_w[/url]

No real new information but worth a watch anyway.

[babatunde]

RobDickinson said:

Tesla stock up 7% on news they plan to scale to 500,000 cars by 2018 rather than 2020

http://electrek.co/2016/05/04/tesla-tsla-surge-mod...

But he can't do that, just because he can land rockets at sea (cutting delivery costs from $400m to $60m) doesn't mean that he understands the intricacies of mass production.

This goes back to my argument that Tesla is disruptive, they aren't playing by the set rules, yes they will make silly mistakes "gullwing doors" but if they can ramp up production to that extent considering all the battery production and other factors then whats stopping the BYD's and LeEcho's of the world following suit, not to talk of the Apple's or some deep pocketed corp starting from scratch using Tesla patents to mass produce a EV car from scratch in 5 years

[98elise]

TransverseTight said:

RobDickinson said:

Tesla stock up 7% on news they plan to scale to 500,000 cars by 2018 rather than 2020

http://electrek.co/2016/05/04/tesla-tsla-surge-mod...

You beat me to it. Now I'm 'worried', I left sticking my reservation in till they had got to about 250,000. Thinking my i3 PCP is up in Jan 2018. I was planning on keeping it 4 years till Jan 2019 just so I'm not in the constant high deprecation curve, but now it looks like Telsa might want to delivery my M3 before end of Q2 2018. #1stworldproblems. As long as they don't deliver before I've paid off the i3 things will be ok. Probably sensible to get it paid off early so I've not got HPI checks coming back with outstanding credit.

A lot of people think it's impossible - but ask Ford how long it takes to go from 0 -1,000,000 units a year on a new Fiesta, and that has a complex fuel system and ICE to install ;-) Not a lump of battery and a waste paper basket sized motor.

I ordered mine on the Sunday which I think puts me somewhere between 250k and 300k.

I would imagine that it would be relatively easy to swap an earlier place for a later place. I want my Model 3 now, so I'll happily trade forward

[WestyCarl]

babatunde said:

This goes back to my argument that Tesla is disruptive, they aren't playing by the set rules,

Yup, according to the Tesla dealer they want you to keep the car for 7+yrs. The cars are just a base platform and are "protected" for upgrades, these will come in the future via Wi-Fi. For example autonomous driving and summon mode.
They claimed it's crazy to have to replace your ICE car every 3 yrs just to get some new tech / slightly revised engine.

[RobGT81]

WestyCarl said:

Yup, according to the Tesla dealer they want you to keep the car for 7+yrs. The cars are just a base platform and are "protected" for upgrades, these will come in the future via Wi-Fi. For example autonomous driving and summon mode.
They claimed it's crazy to have to replace your ICE car every 3 yrs just to get some new tech / slightly revised engine.

So treating your car like a mobile phone or computer. Continually upgrading the OS. I like the thinking.

[walm]

RobGT81 said:

So treating your car like a mobile phone or computer. Continually upgrading the OS. I like the thinking.

Awesome. So the battery will wear out in two years and it won't be able to run on new roads after 18 months.

JUST KIDDING!