Tesla Model 3 revealed
Discussion
mstrbkr said:
FurtiveFreddy said:
Update from Tesla:
“Model 3 vehicle development, supply chain and manufacturing are on track to support volume deliveries in the second half of 2017. In early February, we began building Model 3 prototypes as part of our ongoing testing of the vehicle design and manufacturing processes. Initial crash test results have been positive, and all Model 3-related sourcing is on plan to support the start of production in July.
I'm sorry to anyone that has ordered one because they are either dreaming with those timings or more likely, just lying about the true development timing so they can slip it a few months back when July approaches and keep people interested. You don't start the prototype build 5 months before you start building in volume when that prototype build will take a couple of months to complete. 3 months to test/verify/refine is a joke. And it's not like Tesla have good form on delivering vehicles on time to good standards. Volume production in Q4 of 2017 is more likely.“Model 3 vehicle development, supply chain and manufacturing are on track to support volume deliveries in the second half of 2017. In early February, we began building Model 3 prototypes as part of our ongoing testing of the vehicle design and manufacturing processes. Initial crash test results have been positive, and all Model 3-related sourcing is on plan to support the start of production in July.
Edited by mstrbkr on Sunday 26th March 09:24
98elise said:
Why will the prototype build take a couple of months? Iirc they are going to build them on the production line.
They won't be able to build them at the rate you'd see a volume production line going at. Unless these are the very last prototypes. But since I've seen no images of earlier ones being tested I'm going to assume this is their first using the production intent parts.mstrbkr said:
98elise said:
Why will the prototype build take a couple of months? Iirc they are going to build them on the production line.
They won't be able to build them at the rate you'd see a volume production line going at. Unless these are the very last prototypes. But since I've seen no images of earlier ones being tested I'm going to assume this is their first using the production intent parts.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QaSqCH7mcwI
Autoblog said:
"release candidate version." What that means, if you're not familiar with software development lingo, is that the car you see is pretty much representative of the finalized shape and features of the production car. (You can think of the release candidate as the final prototype step, which comes after beta versions.)
Edited by The Vambo on Sunday 26th March 12:46
The Vambo said:
mstrbkr said:
98elise said:
Why will the prototype build take a couple of months? Iirc they are going to build them on the production line.
They won't be able to build them at the rate you'd see a volume production line going at. Unless these are the very last prototypes. But since I've seen no images of earlier ones being tested I'm going to assume this is their first using the production intent parts.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QaSqCH7mcwI
Autoblog said:
"release candidate version." What that means, if you're not familiar with software development lingo, is that the car you see is pretty much representative of the finalized shape and features of the production car. (You can think of the release candidate as the final prototype step, which comes after beta versions.)
Edited by The Vambo on Sunday 26th March 12:46
Sometimes I think these 'disruptive' companies are so determined not to do it like the incumbents that they fail to grasp some of the good reasons for the stuff the incumbents do.Anyway, looking at that video I can't help but think there's a big opening for a company that can produce a car that looks a lot less.. American.
Tuna said:
As a software guy, I'd be very worried about any company that treats producing a physical product like software Sometimes I think these 'disruptive' companies are so determined not to do it like the incumbents that they fail to grasp some of the good reasons for the stuff the incumbents do.
Anyway, looking at that video I can't help but think there's a big opening for a company that can produce a car that looks a lot less.. American.
So I can put you down as an undecided? Sometimes I think these 'disruptive' companies are so determined not to do it like the incumbents that they fail to grasp some of the good reasons for the stuff the incumbents do.Anyway, looking at that video I can't help but think there's a big opening for a company that can produce a car that looks a lot less.. American.
The Vambo said:
So I can put you down as an undecided?
Heh... I like Musk, he's a great showman and he gets things done. Tesla have changed the automotive landscape. However, the 'smart' features of their cars have been heavily overhyped, and they're quite open about still learning the ropes when it comes to vehicle development.The Model 3 is (depending on who you listen to) a year or so away from being generally available. In the mean time, you can already buy the Chevy Bolt ( http://www.chevrolet.com/bolt-ev-electric-vehicle....) which has been doing what the Model 3 does for long enough that they're onto the refresh models. By the time the Model 3 hits the streets, Tesla have a serious risk of being overtaken by the existing companies who produce thousands of times more cars than they do and actually don't care what power plant they have so long as they sell.
If I were the head of VW, I'd be timing my 'Golf/Scirocco EV' announcement for Spring 2018.
Tuna said:
The Vambo said:
So I can put you down as an undecided?
Heh... I like Musk, he's a great showman and he gets things done. Tesla have changed the automotive landscape. However, the 'smart' features of their cars have been heavily overhyped, and they're quite open about still learning the ropes when it comes to vehicle development.The Model 3 is (depending on who you listen to) a year or so away from being generally available. In the mean time, you can already buy the Chevy Bolt ( http://www.chevrolet.com/bolt-ev-electric-vehicle....) which has been doing what the Model 3 does for long enough that they're onto the refresh models. By the time the Model 3 hits the streets, Tesla have a serious risk of being overtaken by the existing companies who produce thousands of times more cars than they do and actually don't care what power plant they have so long as they sell.
If I were the head of VW, I'd be timing my 'Golf/Scirocco EV' announcement for Spring 2018.
The Vambo said:
130,000 people and half a million people paid deposits.
That aren't that much more than the price of a good mobile phone and are fully refundable.Musk has promised the moon on a stick and people are excited. Good. Does that mean the Model 3 will be a great car? No - but it'd be wonderful if it is. I've been through the hype cycle enough times with exciting new car announcements to be more than a little cynical. If someone told you they were going to build a very heavy Ford Mondeo, would you be excited about the car? If they told you they were going to change the world but be marginalised by the big players shortly after, would you invest in them? This is a huge punt, and no amount of 'good reasons' stops it from being a huge punt.
Tuna said:
That aren't that much more than the price of a good mobile phone and are fully refundable.
Musk has promised the moon on a stick and people are excited. Good. Does that mean the Model 3 will be a great car? No - but it'd be wonderful if it is. I've been through the hype cycle enough times with exciting new car announcements to be more than a little cynical. If someone told you they were going to build a very heavy Ford Mondeo, would you be excited about the car? If they told you they were going to change the world but be marginalised by the big players shortly after, would you invest in them? This is a huge punt, and no amount of 'good reasons' stops it from being a huge punt.
To be fair if someone told you several years ago that one of the fastest accelerating cars would be a 7 seater saloon car that anyone can buy, and that it would drive itself. Musk has promised the moon on a stick and people are excited. Good. Does that mean the Model 3 will be a great car? No - but it'd be wonderful if it is. I've been through the hype cycle enough times with exciting new car announcements to be more than a little cynical. If someone told you they were going to build a very heavy Ford Mondeo, would you be excited about the car? If they told you they were going to change the world but be marginalised by the big players shortly after, would you invest in them? This is a huge punt, and no amount of 'good reasons' stops it from being a huge punt.
You'd lol them out of the room, where are we now.
The deposits are used to guesstimate demand, if 100 people put down a deposit, he for sure has a failure on his hands.
There's a chinese company called xiaomi that has refined this model, but doesn't actually bother taking peoples money.
The Vambo said:
Tesla Model 3, first drive release candidate version.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QaSqCH7mcwI
Ah, fair enough! I had missed this because I thought I'd see it on car news websites. So they did build them in February. I'm still sceptical of that July date though.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QaSqCH7mcwI
Autoblog said:
"release candidate version." What that means, if you're not familiar with software development lingo, is that the car you see is pretty much representative of the finalized shape and features of the production car. (You can think of the release candidate as the final prototype step, which comes after beta versions.)
Edited by The Vambo on Sunday 26th March 12:46
Tuna said:
That aren't that much more than the price of a good mobile phone and are fully refundable.
Musk has promised the moon on a stick
Has he?Musk has promised the moon on a stick
That phrase usually means to promise the unachievable. What promise hasn't he delivered on?
Edited by The Vambo on Sunday 26th March 16:06
Edited by The Vambo on Sunday 26th March 16:32
The Vambo said:
Has he?
That phrase usually means to promise the unachievable. What promise hasn't he delivered on?
We could start with self driving cars. They're not. The company that was providing the cameras behind the technology has now distanced itself from Tesla, and after a number of interventions (and threatened legal cases), Tesla has dialled back on the 'Autopilot' claims, bringing them more in line with the 'Driver Assist' naming that every other company that uses the same tech calls it.That phrase usually means to promise the unachievable. What promise hasn't he delivered on?
Google themselves have now said that self driving cars are not achievable with any current technology and have admitted that despite throwing their might behind it that autonomous driving is not a problem that is currently solvable.
Tuna said:
Google themselves have now said that self driving cars are not achievable with any current technology and have admitted that despite throwing their might behind it that autonomous driving is not a problem that is currently solvable.
I hope they didn't say that too loudly, since what they have actually done is to spin the project off into a new venture (Waymo) and say that they will sell their tech to OEMs. Another issue is that it isn't really essential tech that we all need. While you can see some reasonable benefits to autonomous cars such as having a portaloo delivered with Uber on the side and then having to step over the ex Uber drivers begging in the gutter inbetween bouts of fighting over scraps with the ex shop checkout workers or helping Geoffrey Bernards get home fundamentally almost no one actually needs autonomous vehicles.
otolith said:
Depends on how nihilistically you are defining "need", really.
Indeed but there is certainly always a question to ask of technological advancements which is whether the problem they are being touted as solving actually exists as a commercially viable need. Concorde is a great example. As fantastic as it was there was never an actual commercially viable need to ship a couple of hundred people twice a day in a plane that was a few hours quicker. Even less so today. The big question to ask about autonomous driving is for the people involved to start being completely honest as to who/what truly stands to benefit from such technology and for society to start a serious discussion as to whether removing a huge number of unskilled/semi-skilled human employment roles is actually beneficial in the bigger picture?
There's a whole complex question about automation in general, and whether having people doing drudge work in order to have the dignity of labour is a productive use of human life. But I would counter that most drivers aren't being paid to do it, much of the time would rather be doing something else, and actually aren't all that good at it. I think you have to set the safety, efficiency and productivity arguments against the unemployment of Uber drivers. I guess the decline of employment of domestic servants is in part an effect of the reduction of household drudge work by washing machines, dishwashers, vacuum cleaners, etc.
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