Tesla Model 3 revealed

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Discussion

EricE

1,945 posts

128 months

Friday 1st April 2016
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Live feed from car manufacturer boardrooms around the world:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qgET1Zhpb8

Otispunkmeyer

12,557 posts

154 months

Friday 1st April 2016
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Galsia said:
Needs grille...

I've just seen the pictures of the front on another website and thats the first thing that popped into my head. Looks totally weird without a grill. A completely smooth front with no features on it makes it look like a budget b-movie prop. I know it doesn't need a grill for air flow or cooling but it needs something, even if just a contrasting strip/bumper across it.

98elise

26,376 posts

160 months

Friday 1st April 2016
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qube_TA said:
I'm probably wrong but have to look after a lot of UPS systems for large data centres and comms rooms which need stacks of batteries OK they're mostly lead-acid types but these will likely behave in a similar way.

To get the best life and capacity out of a battery they're quite picky on environmental conditions so I have to use small DX cooling systems to keep them at a fixed 21 degrees. My understanding is that on EV's they use part of the cars environmental/AC system to regulate the temperature of the batteries and if the car is parked up then this system will click in and out as required to stop your battery from getting hot or cold.

It doesn't matter too much on a laptop or phone where the capacity of the battery degrades over time as you can buy a new one, looking after your batteries on your car is going to be quite spendy. 200 miles on a charge when new, what are they like in 3 years time?

Does this therefore mean that if you're not driving the car then it must be plugged in to run the AC otherwise if you charge the car up at the local power point then park it up outside your apartment you could find it's dead when you come to use it. And if you've got a dead EV and no plug what do you do, you can't really pour in a jerry can of electricity to get you to your nearest power point.

I think leasing an EV or at least the batteries if you've somewhere to plug the car in makes some sense but the fuel-cell approach makes more sense to me as they'll behave more like a regular ICE where you can just top the thing up with a shot of H if it's run out of gas.
There is an 8 year unlimited mileage warranty on the battery. Tesla's have been around for a while now and battery degradation does not seem to be a problem (10-15% in 100k miles).

OwenK

3,472 posts

194 months

Friday 1st April 2016
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Otispunkmeyer said:
I've just seen the pictures of the front on another website and thats the first thing that popped into my head. Looks totally weird without a grill. A completely smooth front with no features on it makes it look like a budget b-movie prop. I know it doesn't need a grill for air flow or cooling but it needs something, even if just a contrasting strip/bumper across it.
I agree. It's clever because it draws attention to the fact that normally there's a grill there and there isn't because the car is different to the norm - unfortunately it just doesn't look as nice as a grill would... It's a face without a nose.

DoubleD

22,154 posts

107 months

Friday 1st April 2016
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98elise said:
DoubleD said:
98elise said:
DoubleD said:
A bland looking £30k+ saloon is not a game changer.
It is when nearly 200,000 people place an order in the first 24 hours.
200,000 people ordering one does not make it a game changer.
I suspect every major car company got a wake up call today. BMW sell about 20k i3's,, and about 400k 3 series per year globally. Tesla have orders for 200k in a day. Thats a game changer in my eyes.
No that's just a lot of people worried that they are going to miss out on something after Ellen's clever marketing tweets.

p1stonhead

25,489 posts

166 months

Friday 1st April 2016
quotequote all
DoubleD said:
98elise said:
DoubleD said:
98elise said:
DoubleD said:
A bland looking £30k+ saloon is not a game changer.
It is when nearly 200,000 people place an order in the first 24 hours.
200,000 people ordering one does not make it a game changer.
I suspect every major car company got a wake up call today. BMW sell about 20k i3's,, and about 400k 3 series per year globally. Tesla have orders for 200k in a day. Thats a game changer in my eyes.
No that's just a lot of people worried that they are going to miss out on something after Ellen's clever marketing tweets.
Ellen?! Because it's sort of like Elon? rofl

fking hilarious!

rolleyes

s3fella

10,524 posts

186 months

Friday 1st April 2016
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Pommygranite said:
Using the word 'to be honest' doesn't make you right.

You've said they won't deliver them due to demand.

You've said it will become £50k.

You hypothesised the charge point scenario.

You're cynical.

And you do realise this is a global vehicle, not one that will die on its arse just because you feel it won't work in the UK.

You're mistaking viability with desirability. It doesn't matter about viability, it just matters if people feel it offers them something they can benefit from.
Let me explain.
How will they deliver 150,000 (saome estimates now at 250k orders)? How many cars are they currently making a year (*PS I know, look it up)
I said the demand a wait lists will result in cars that ARE delivered attracting a premium, and I'd suggest £50k is not too far off the mark. When I lived in USA, and the new "retro" Mustang came out, dealers were selling them at $20k over list price, official dealers that is. Private and indy dealers were even worse.
I haven't hyposthsised the carge point scenario, I have said that no one will do it for free and you will have to pay. At present, most we use out and about are free. That is not sustainable, unless you believe in fairies.
People will see it as desireable, until they start to run the numbers and see the limitations that EVs will ALWAYS have. They just will, until they can get electric to run out of a pump into a tank.

I am an EV user. And I know their limitations, and the limitations of the infrastructure. If EVs become the normal mode of transport, they will have to become far more pricey to run, so as the people putting in the infrastructure and making the things can make money, and at present, something like a ZOE is only just viable cost wise with £5k from HM Gov, £5k from Reanult, and 0 APR leaseing, when you compare it to a similar spec 1.5 diesel Clio. We went for one, as a novelty as much as anything, and it has been fine. But we've already seen the effect of the cheap Zoe and Leaf lease deals in more EVS about which has resulted in charging issues already and in one case a very angry man who abused my wife for charging up for an hour in Manchester in a free space that "he always uses".

And that is the nub of it, they are viable at the mo, and the range anxiety is offset by things like free parking and priority in certain circumatances. But when there are loads about, (and be honest, how many do YOU see a day), well the infrastructure will need to be expanded and that will cost money. And EV users will have to pay for it. Ignore the TBH if you like, but you are incredibly naïve to think otherwise.

What EV do you run and how do you find things with it. Have you not seen the difference in the last 12 months since the super chap lease deals came on..? We have in the last 6.

DoubleD

22,154 posts

107 months

Friday 1st April 2016
quotequote all
p1stonhead said:
DoubleD said:
98elise said:
DoubleD said:
98elise said:
DoubleD said:
A bland looking £30k+ saloon is not a game changer.
It is when nearly 200,000 people place an order in the first 24 hours.
200,000 people ordering one does not make it a game changer.
I suspect every major car company got a wake up call today. BMW sell about 20k i3's,, and about 400k 3 series per year globally. Tesla have orders for 200k in a day. Thats a game changer in my eyes.
No that's just a lot of people worried that they are going to miss out on something after Ellen's clever marketing tweets.
Ellen?! Because it's sort of like Elon? rofl

fking hilarious!

rolleyes
I know, that's why I did it!

Jordan210

4,503 posts

182 months

Friday 1st April 2016
quotequote all
If you pre order now will be a min a 3-4 years away! I wonder how many have been ordered to flip.

A lot could change in technology in that time.

Good luck to tesla should be a wake up call for other manufactures.

Otispunkmeyer

12,557 posts

154 months

Friday 1st April 2016
quotequote all
ash73 said:
Otispunkmeyer said:
Galsia said:
Needs grille...

I've just seen the pictures of the front on another website and thats the first thing that popped into my head. Looks totally weird without a grill. A completely smooth front with no features on it makes it look like a budget b-movie prop. I know it doesn't need a grill for air flow or cooling but it needs something, even if just a contrasting strip/bumper across it.
This is why car manufacturers should never listen to focus groups. Please make it look just like the others... please!

Keep the purity of the design; if it doesn't need a grille don't slap one on it!
Sameness sells. People in general don't like change and are unimaginative. Thats why everyone drives audi's and doesn't seem to care that audi are literally selling you the same front end and a rear end with x length of car in between regardless of what model you actually buy. Its part of the reason why iPhones are so popular, they're conventional to look at (if smart and well made) and haven't really changed much since introduction. People like it, they know they like it and wouldn't have it radically different.

The Leaf and i3 are not conventional looking cars. They also don't perform like a Tesla but I suspect the looks are very much marmite to most people, especially on the i3. The Model S looks, to me, like a generic saloon car. Its popular because its bloody good but also I suspect, because it blends in and doesn't stick out like sore thumb. It doesn't make a statement with its design, it lets the ridiculous performance speak for itself.

This doesn't look like a purity of design thing. It just looks unfinished. Each to his own of course, but for me it does just need something on the front. Not a gaping grill per se but a little bit of detailing, something to just break up that big flat featureless surface.
On the other hand I suspect its very good news for aerodynamics.

Galsia

2,167 posts

189 months

Friday 1st April 2016
quotequote all
ash73 said:
This is why car manufacturers should never listen to focus groups. Please make it look just like the others... please!

Keep the purity of the design; if it doesn't need a grille don't slap one on it!
It doesn't need a glass roof but it has one. smile

98elise

26,376 posts

160 months

Friday 1st April 2016
quotequote all
Jordan210 said:
If you pre order now will be a min a 3-4 years away! I wonder how many have been ordered to flip.

A lot could change in technology in that time.

Good luck to tesla should be a wake up call for other manufactures.
I can't see much changing other than battery capacity. A 3phase motor is about as simple a machine as you can get, and its using a fundamental force to create motion. There really isn't much more you can do with it.

Srlister

22 posts

143 months

Friday 1st April 2016
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Love PistonHeads. Makes an entertaining read.

I'll be honest, I want a tesla, I might be able to afford / justify this one.

My e93 M3 is great, fast, goes sideways, shouty. But it's terribly inefficient and let's not forget the exhaust fumes are slowly killing us all, let alone the growing co2 levels. It's a good job global warming isn't real <joke> because if this happens as predicted, we are (or our kids are) f....d.. In a spot of bother.

Has anyone stood next to a busy road and breathed in? mmm, diesel, cough.
Something needs to change and fast.
Yes, for some, 200 miles won't be enough, some can't charge at home. But 'most' people could find a way of owning an electric car. It will cost next to nothing to run and more importantly wont slowly kill us.

I can't wait to own a 400 bhp 4 wheel drive car that will do 200 miles and cost £3 to charge over night.
Pretty sure the model 3 could be it.
My M3 would struggle to do 200 miles per tank and my bladder definitely can't.

ps
Long tail pipe arguments - do some research that isn't sponsored by the oil industry. smile
pps
Im afraid ICE's days are numbered IMHO.





unsprung

5,467 posts

123 months

Friday 1st April 2016
quotequote all
If your intercontinental duties prevented you from attending in person last night's unveiling...

This video offers a small taste of the driving experience. At last night's event, attendees were allowed to get behind the wheel. They drove the Tesla Model 3 along a short distance of straight road. Up and back.

The on-street driving begins at the 1:30 mark.

Video here.


BigBen

11,610 posts

229 months

Friday 1st April 2016
quotequote all
Galsia said:
Needs grille...

Didn't the cars in the background video show at the launch have grilles or were they model Ses?

morgrp

4,128 posts

197 months

Friday 1st April 2016
quotequote all
I like this, but two things personally concern me,
1)I still don't think electric cars of this nature are a solution to the problem. I personally believe Hydrogen fuel cells are.
2) The range quoted is impressive, but I'll believe it when I see it in daily driving conditions

nffcforever

793 posts

190 months

Friday 1st April 2016
quotequote all
Srlister said:
Love PistonHeads. Makes an entertaining read.

I'll be honest, I want a tesla, I might be able to afford / justify this one.

My e93 M3 is great, fast, goes sideways, shouty. But it's terribly inefficient and let's not forget the exhaust fumes are slowly killing us all, let alone the growing co2 levels. It's a good job global warming isn't real <joke> because if this happens as predicted, we are (or our kids are) f....d.. In a spot of bother.

Has anyone stood next to a busy road and breathed in? mmm, diesel, cough.
Something needs to change and fast.
Yes, for some, 200 miles won't be enough, some can't charge at home. But 'most' people could find a way of owning an electric car. It will cost next to nothing to run and more importantly wont slowly kill us.

I can't wait to own a 400 bhp 4 wheel drive car that will do 200 miles and cost £3 to charge over night.
Pretty sure the model 3 could be it.
My M3 would struggle to do 200 miles per tank and my bladder definitely can't.

ps
Long tail pipe arguments - do some research that isn't sponsored by the oil industry. smile
pps
Im afraid ICE's days are numbered IMHO.
Fully agree. Walking through central London most days, surrounded by almost stationary vehicles of all types spewing out all sorts of unpleasant emissions (i.e. diesel noise, smells, cancer causing fumes etc), I frequently long for the day when the majority of vehicles are emission free at point of use. Just imagine how much more pleasant everywhere will be once this happens.

DonkeyApple

54,923 posts

168 months

Friday 1st April 2016
quotequote all
98elise said:
I suspect every major car company got a wake up call today. BMW sell about 20k i3's,, and about 400k 3 series per year globally. Tesla have orders for 200k in a day. Thats a game changer in my eyes.
Imagine how many orders they'll get for the diesel version!!!!

DonkeyApple

54,923 posts

168 months

Friday 1st April 2016
quotequote all
nffcforever said:
Fully agree. Walking through central London most days, surrounded by almost stationary vehicles of all types spewing out all sorts of unpleasant emissions (i.e. diesel noise, smells, cancer causing fumes etc), I frequently long for the day when the majority of vehicles are emission free at point of use. Just imagine how much more pleasant everywhere will be once this happens.
Definitely. But only if ICE are still allowed. I can't wait for all cars in London to be EVs. The peace and quiet and loss of stench will be a dream but I fear that it may come with a ban on those beautiful petrol cars that we will still all love and want to be free to use as and when.

Hitch78

6,100 posts

193 months

Friday 1st April 2016
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It is indeed a game changer. I'd imagine that by the time your T3 arrives in 2019 there will be some very competitive vehicles available from the mainstream. The technology is not unique to Tesla but they way they've put it together so convincingly is. I'd imagine some big firm R&D departments have just had their budgets increased and project timelines shortened!

Seems the future is here. I'm tempted to buy something outrageous to see out the fossil age!