RE: BMW M3 (E46): PH Carpool
Discussion
I am on my second of these.
Such raw, hypnotic, nuanced beasts.
Not the fastest car out there, certainly not the most practical, but once you get above 4k in 3rd gear the noise is enough to send you trembling when you climb out of the bolstered leather.
As with any ownership proposition you need to go into it with open eyes and wallet. DIYing is a great money saver and there are guides for almost everything, but OEM parts are expensive and regardless of DIY enthusiasm there is no getting away from the cost of BMW parts.
Subframe is so well covered it's not even worth mentioning here. OEM suspension needs overhauling at 60k. Power steering needs attention at 50=60k,as do minor oil leaks here and there. Other than that superb motor!
Such raw, hypnotic, nuanced beasts.
Not the fastest car out there, certainly not the most practical, but once you get above 4k in 3rd gear the noise is enough to send you trembling when you climb out of the bolstered leather.
As with any ownership proposition you need to go into it with open eyes and wallet. DIYing is a great money saver and there are guides for almost everything, but OEM parts are expensive and regardless of DIY enthusiasm there is no getting away from the cost of BMW parts.
Subframe is so well covered it's not even worth mentioning here. OEM suspension needs overhauling at 60k. Power steering needs attention at 50=60k,as do minor oil leaks here and there. Other than that superb motor!
I would definitely second getting a compression test done. I've recently bought a car which seemed right, including the all-important subframe (incidentally done by MProve), as well as a large list of other upgrades.
Unfortunately the head gasket either went soon after purchase, or was already on the way out. Not a hideous bill but certainly one you want to avoid if you can! Key is to catch it early, which I was lucky to, the symptoms don't present themselves in the typical manner of HG failure (dipstick doesn't go s
tty). The block is iron so fairly robust but with only 4mm between the bores there isn't a lot of head gasket to begin with. I only had a 1-2 breach, I have seen others here with all six breached!
Unfortunately the head gasket either went soon after purchase, or was already on the way out. Not a hideous bill but certainly one you want to avoid if you can! Key is to catch it early, which I was lucky to, the symptoms don't present themselves in the typical manner of HG failure (dipstick doesn't go s
tty). The block is iron so fairly robust but with only 4mm between the bores there isn't a lot of head gasket to begin with. I only had a 1-2 breach, I have seen others here with all six breached!jayemm89 said:
I would definitely second getting a compression test done. I've recently bought a car which seemed right, including the all-important subframe (incidentally done by MProve), as well as a large list of other upgrades.
Unfortunately the head gasket either went soon after purchase, or was already on the way out. Not a hideous bill but certainly one you want to avoid if you can! Key is to catch it early, which I was lucky to, the symptoms don't present themselves in the typical manner of HG failure (dipstick doesn't go stty). The block is iron so fairly robust but with only 4mm between the bores there isn't a lot of head gasket to begin with. I only had a 1-2 breach, I have seen others here with all six breached!
What symptoms did you have? Cooling system problems or just lumpy running/loss of power?Unfortunately the head gasket either went soon after purchase, or was already on the way out. Not a hideous bill but certainly one you want to avoid if you can! Key is to catch it early, which I was lucky to, the symptoms don't present themselves in the typical manner of HG failure (dipstick doesn't go s
tty). The block is iron so fairly robust but with only 4mm between the bores there isn't a lot of head gasket to begin with. I only had a 1-2 breach, I have seen others here with all six breached!s m said:
jayemm89 said:
I would definitely second getting a compression test done. I've recently bought a car which seemed right, including the all-important subframe (incidentally done by MProve), as well as a large list of other upgrades.
Unfortunately the head gasket either went soon after purchase, or was already on the way out. Not a hideous bill but certainly one you want to avoid if you can! Key is to catch it early, which I was lucky to, the symptoms don't present themselves in the typical manner of HG failure (dipstick doesn't go stty). The block is iron so fairly robust but with only 4mm between the bores there isn't a lot of head gasket to begin with. I only had a 1-2 breach, I have seen others here with all six breached!
What symptoms did you have? Cooling system problems or just lumpy running/loss of power?Unfortunately the head gasket either went soon after purchase, or was already on the way out. Not a hideous bill but certainly one you want to avoid if you can! Key is to catch it early, which I was lucky to, the symptoms don't present themselves in the typical manner of HG failure (dipstick doesn't go s
tty). The block is iron so fairly robust but with only 4mm between the bores there isn't a lot of head gasket to begin with. I only had a 1-2 breach, I have seen others here with all six breached!The second one went and took the whole engine with it. Block was knackered, head was knackered. Mr BMW was asking 12k plus the VAT and not including fitting!!!!!! Took me 2 hours to source a replacement engine for about 4k with the same miles.
Maybe it's the way I drove them.
Symptoms were hesitation and juddering under load, a loud ticking when you put your foot down (only really heard in enclosed spaces or beside a wall) and it sounded like a modded scooby at idle.
Captainawesome said:
Head gasket went on both the cars I had....within 6 months of each other. One went to simpson motorsport who were ace, reasonably priced and I got to look at some amazing cars there (2 ferrari F40s, wibble). It was fixed and all was well.
The second one went and took the whole engine with it. Block was knackered, head was knackered. Mr BMW was asking 12k plus the VAT and not including fitting!!!!!! Took me 2 hours to source a replacement engine for about 4k with the same miles.
Maybe it's the way I drove them.
Symptoms were hesitation and juddering under load, a loud ticking when you put your foot down (only really heard in enclosed spaces or beside a wall) and it sounded like a modded scooby at idle.
Ouch - that is some nasty bad luck.The second one went and took the whole engine with it. Block was knackered, head was knackered. Mr BMW was asking 12k plus the VAT and not including fitting!!!!!! Took me 2 hours to source a replacement engine for about 4k with the same miles.
Maybe it's the way I drove them.
Symptoms were hesitation and juddering under load, a loud ticking when you put your foot down (only really heard in enclosed spaces or beside a wall) and it sounded like a modded scooby at idle.
Basically you get a ticking/pinging sound under load between 2,000 and 3,000rpm. Easily heard at 2,000rpm in 6th, which is still legal speeds.
The weird thing is it sounds just like a loose heat shield knocking on something. Doesn't make the noise at all when at standstill, or just revving up (ie. no load). Some people describe it as "marbles in a can" but didn't sound like that to me.
The bizarre thing is we had my VANOS apart at the same time and it was absolutely fine. Replaced all the bolts, rocker cover gasket etc... "while we were in there"... whoever gets this car after me is getting a good one. By the time they start to overheat I think you're in real trouble. Mine was thoroughly inspected, had no problems with the piston rings or head. Some of them need skimming, some a lot more. I was one of the lucky ones.
The bloke who sold it to me, his dad had about five or six of them in a garage and was a real fan of them. Very hands on. I had assumed that meant they knew how to look after them. Cynical me wonders if he knew this was about to happen...
The car's otherwise really great, but this has taken the shine off of it somewhat.
The weird thing is it sounds just like a loose heat shield knocking on something. Doesn't make the noise at all when at standstill, or just revving up (ie. no load). Some people describe it as "marbles in a can" but didn't sound like that to me.
The bizarre thing is we had my VANOS apart at the same time and it was absolutely fine. Replaced all the bolts, rocker cover gasket etc... "while we were in there"... whoever gets this car after me is getting a good one. By the time they start to overheat I think you're in real trouble. Mine was thoroughly inspected, had no problems with the piston rings or head. Some of them need skimming, some a lot more. I was one of the lucky ones.
The bloke who sold it to me, his dad had about five or six of them in a garage and was a real fan of them. Very hands on. I had assumed that meant they knew how to look after them. Cynical me wonders if he knew this was about to happen...
The car's otherwise really great, but this has taken the shine off of it somewhat.
Edited by jayemm89 on Tuesday 5th April 16:14
Absolutely brilliant cars. I had mine for nearly 3 years (2004 car) and it didn't put a foot wrong. It had @77k when I sold it, no give in clutch, no knocking noises and servicing was reasonable for the type of car. Mine had the ACS short shift kit which made it more engaging. The usual stiff 1st/2nd gear was sorted with a gearbox oil change and the slightly grumbly diff with the FM oil, well worth doing for longevity.
I had mine for 2 years, spent next to nothing on it (a single parking sensor) and sold it for nearly what I bought it for.
Got oil changed at half the interval BMW stipulate. I found there was zero consumption of oil until I got to the half way point in the schedule, so instead of buying oil to top up I just had it changed with new stuff.
Couple of rust issues that I got sorted.
Still not sure about exhaust sound. Seemed to 'raspy' for me.
Great car though I have to say.
Have fun!
Got oil changed at half the interval BMW stipulate. I found there was zero consumption of oil until I got to the half way point in the schedule, so instead of buying oil to top up I just had it changed with new stuff.
Couple of rust issues that I got sorted.
Still not sure about exhaust sound. Seemed to 'raspy' for me.
Great car though I have to say.
Have fun!
And the one I should (maybe) never have sold:
http://www.bmwclassics.co.uk/2003_M3_CSL/index.htm...
http://www.bmwclassics.co.uk/gallery/index.php?spg...
http://www.bmwclassics.co.uk/2003_M3_CSL/index.htm...
http://www.bmwclassics.co.uk/gallery/index.php?spg...
I've just swapped my E39 540i Sport Manual for a 996. The 996 makes a nice noise and it goes round corners amazingly, it does put a huge grin on your face, but the interior feels incredibly cheap next to the e39 so you need to drive it flat out to get the benefit. I imagine you would notice the same going from an e46 to a 996, more so maybe given that the m3 would probably be quicker
Blackbird425]anscm said:
I am on my second of these.
Such raw, hypnotic, nuanced beasts.
I've never heard an M3 described as "nuanced" before. Please explain. Can something be both raw and nuanced?
nuanced in the sense of having subtle quirks which are not instantly apparent but quickly become part and parcel of the ownership experience; the tappety engine, notchy gearbox, the //M clunk, pops and bangs from exhaust in the first mile or so... all part of the love (once you realise that it's not falling to bits on you)! Such raw, hypnotic, nuanced beasts.
I've never heard an M3 described as "nuanced" before. Please explain. Can something be both raw and nuanced?
Not sure if anyone has mentioned yet but the rear subframes don't crack, the boot floor panel does. Every E46 M3 I've seen has a crack or is starting to crack and the only solution is to reinforce the floor panel in this area. I wouldn't buy one without the repair strengthening plates.
Vincefox said:
What's the roadside visual check for the subframe cracking? Never heard of this before.
I had found that I could get my head under the rear of the car (standard ride height), behind the nearside rear wheel, and look at the car body around the area they commonly first crack. It was a snug fit to slide under (sort of under the back box), but with a small torch and 60 seconds it took a lot of the guess work out of viewing cars where the owner/dealer had no specialist knowledge, or wasn't offering any information on the condition of the 'subframe' issue.Lots of great comments, nice insight to the 996 there too, and there seem to be plenty of folk out there who have wisely taken the chance to own an M3 at some point
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