RE: Subaru and Prodrive back together!
Discussion
ZX10R NIN said:
Paul_M3 said:
I would guess it's partly due to the fact that a Subaru derived car is incredibly unlikely to threaten the lap record.
I bet if somebody like Mclaren wanted to build a car to have a go it might be a different story.
The TT is a bike event. I don't think they'd like the lap record being held by a four wheeled vehicle.
Mclarens 650 would struggle to get anywhere near the 600cc Supersport time for various reasons that have been discussed on here before.I bet if somebody like Mclaren wanted to build a car to have a go it might be a different story.
The TT is a bike event. I don't think they'd like the lap record being held by a four wheeled vehicle.
Subaru get a free pass because they supply course cars & loan them out to teams that need to about for that vital part, they were a nice bunch mechanics in 2014 & openly admitted the car was lightly modded Map exhaust & Intercooler being the main changes.
I'll be glad too see them again but I don't think they'll struggle to beat their previous but they might struggle to beat the Electric bike record unless they start pushing big bhp.
Is this the annual thread where all the two wheelers get precious about the one place on earth that bikes are faster than cars (mostly by dint of the fact that proper cars aren't allowed to have a go)
Queue 20 pages of cars can't go fast on the TT due to bumps/narrow roads/flying off into oblivion/spontaneously combusting etc.
It will be interesting to see how tuned the new car will be and how quick it can go. 118mph average speed on the last car run vs 132mph current bike TT record. Come on Subaru\Prodrive and Higgins, let's see you get ever closer and really make those biker boys sweat in their leather.
Queue 20 pages of cars can't go fast on the TT due to bumps/narrow roads/flying off into oblivion/spontaneously combusting etc.
It will be interesting to see how tuned the new car will be and how quick it can go. 118mph average speed on the last car run vs 132mph current bike TT record. Come on Subaru\Prodrive and Higgins, let's see you get ever closer and really make those biker boys sweat in their leather.
ZX10R NIN said:
Paul_M3 said:
I would guess it's partly due to the fact that a Subaru derived car is incredibly unlikely to threaten the lap record.
I bet if somebody like Mclaren wanted to build a car to have a go it might be a different story.
The TT is a bike event. I don't think they'd like the lap record being held by a four wheeled vehicle.
Mclarens 650 would struggle to get anywhere near the 600cc Supersport time for various reasons that have been discussed on here before.I bet if somebody like Mclaren wanted to build a car to have a go it might be a different story.
The TT is a bike event. I don't think they'd like the lap record being held by a four wheeled vehicle.
I'm not really sure why you then started talking about one of their standard road cars. (And especially not the mid-range 650, rather than the significantly faster and more track focussed P1)
Paul_M3 said:
I specifically stated that if somebody like McLaren wanted to build a car to have a go it might be a different story, as this is a story about Prodrive building a car.
I'm not really sure why you then started talking about one of their standard road cars. (And especially not the mid-range 650, rather than the significantly faster and more track focussed P1)
I stated road cars because the piece was talking about his previous exploits in the (not so) standard car.I'm not really sure why you then started talking about one of their standard road cars. (And especially not the mid-range 650, rather than the significantly faster and more track focussed P1)
If you read some of the interviews Higgins has done he states the bumps narrowness & the fact he has to brake in places the bikes are flat due to the cars bigger footprint are the main hindrances for cars.
The TT course is unique in it's layout which means it suit bikes, around most race tracks a race car will be quicker.
ZX10R NIN said:
Paul_M3 said:
I specifically stated that if somebody like McLaren wanted to build a car to have a go it might be a different story, as this is a story about Prodrive building a car.
I'm not really sure why you then started talking about one of their standard road cars. (And especially not the mid-range 650, rather than the significantly faster and more track focussed P1)
I stated road cars because the piece was talking about his previous exploits in the (not so) standard car.I'm not really sure why you then started talking about one of their standard road cars. (And especially not the mid-range 650, rather than the significantly faster and more track focussed P1)
If you read some of the interviews Higgins has done he states the bumps narrowness & the fact he has to brake in places the bikes are flat due to the cars bigger footprint are the main hindrances for cars.
The TT course is unique in it's layout which means it suit bikes, around most race tracks a race car will be quicker.
ZX10R NIN said:
I've seen those & they look like fun but having ridden the course in anger I know how it is but everyones entitled to an opinion
It was more a comment about how single seaters easily cope with big bumps and narrow sections.
Don't get me wrong, the TT riders are amazing and have balls of steel. And a £10,000 showroom bike will be quicker than 99% of the cars of the planet, that's incredible in itself.
But to think that the TT course is literally the only track in the world where 'proper' racing cars aren't faster than bikes seems strange to me. It's one of the most amazing courses ever, but there is nothing inherently special about it in terms of physics.
Put it this way, how amazing would it be for the TT organisers if they did a one off competition - Open entry for four wheeled vehicles. "Come and have a go and see how close you can get". They'd forever have bragging rights about how no car on the planet could get close to the bikes times. All the bikers would love it. It'd be a huge amount of free advertising.
And yet for some reason that's never happened...
I've been lucky enough to see the data from this car vs bike clash
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IteniLcLImU
The high speed corners were very close, the braking was the biggest difference but the bike pretty much ate up the deficit with acceleration out of the corners.
There were also points where the car had to feather where you'd think it would be flat but the bike was pinned, so around the TT course I think it would be great to see.
I'd call a standard S1000RR or Aprilia RSV4 vs 675LT/458 Speciale
The reason I'd use showroom models is because it's easier to evaluate & relate to than a pikes peak special.
Watching a rally car do the course will be interesting it'll be good to see them again & what they manage to get to this year.
You should come over or come & see some true racing & watch the NW200/Skerries/Ulster GP etc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IteniLcLImU
The high speed corners were very close, the braking was the biggest difference but the bike pretty much ate up the deficit with acceleration out of the corners.
There were also points where the car had to feather where you'd think it would be flat but the bike was pinned, so around the TT course I think it would be great to see.
I'd call a standard S1000RR or Aprilia RSV4 vs 675LT/458 Speciale
The reason I'd use showroom models is because it's easier to evaluate & relate to than a pikes peak special.
Watching a rally car do the course will be interesting it'll be good to see them again & what they manage to get to this year.
You should come over or come & see some true racing & watch the NW200/Skerries/Ulster GP etc
Yeah, I've seen that video, and I was actually a little surprised how close the car was.
In the sorts of comparisons you're talking about, I would personally expect the car to lose out. Whilst the Mclaren is very much a supercar, it's still a vehicle you could comfortably use to travel across continents. It's not really a dedicated 'track' car.
When these conversations come up I personally always tend to think about proper downforce cars, an advantage which bikes unfortunately can't exploit.
When you compare Moto GP to F1, an F1 car takes about 1m 30s to lap a circuit compared to roughly 2m 00s Moto GP time.
That's a HUGE amount of spare time to have in hand for any 'unsuitable' sections of the TT course.
(Of course, bikes have the advantage of actually being able to overtake each other and provide close racing and entertainment)
You're also talking about a machine that costs millions to develop and requires a team of people to operate. It's not really a fair comparison and purely on a cost basis you wouldn't particularly expect a bike to be able to compete.
So....going back to normal road legal cars that you could take to the shops, I still think the Mclaren P1 would be the car I'd pick for the challenge. However, would I bet my mortgage on it being faster around the TT than the fastest road legal sportsbike....Nope. Which considering it costs nearly £1 million, says a huge amount about how impressive the bikes are.
In the sorts of comparisons you're talking about, I would personally expect the car to lose out. Whilst the Mclaren is very much a supercar, it's still a vehicle you could comfortably use to travel across continents. It's not really a dedicated 'track' car.
When these conversations come up I personally always tend to think about proper downforce cars, an advantage which bikes unfortunately can't exploit.
When you compare Moto GP to F1, an F1 car takes about 1m 30s to lap a circuit compared to roughly 2m 00s Moto GP time.
That's a HUGE amount of spare time to have in hand for any 'unsuitable' sections of the TT course.
(Of course, bikes have the advantage of actually being able to overtake each other and provide close racing and entertainment)
You're also talking about a machine that costs millions to develop and requires a team of people to operate. It's not really a fair comparison and purely on a cost basis you wouldn't particularly expect a bike to be able to compete.
So....going back to normal road legal cars that you could take to the shops, I still think the Mclaren P1 would be the car I'd pick for the challenge. However, would I bet my mortgage on it being faster around the TT than the fastest road legal sportsbike....Nope. Which considering it costs nearly £1 million, says a huge amount about how impressive the bikes are.
Paul_M3 said:
Yeah, I've seen that video, and I was actually a little surprised how close the car was.
In the sorts of comparisons you're talking about, I would personally expect the car to lose out. Whilst the Mclaren is very much a supercar, it's still a vehicle you could comfortably use to travel across continents. It's not really a dedicated 'track' car.
When these conversations come up I personally always tend to think about proper downforce cars, an advantage which bikes unfortunately can't exploit.
When you compare Moto GP to F1, an F1 car takes about 1m 30s to lap a circuit compared to roughly 2m 00s Moto GP time.
That's a HUGE amount of spare time to have in hand for any 'unsuitable' sections of the TT course.
(Of course, bikes have the advantage of actually being able to overtake each other and provide close racing and entertainment)
You're also talking about a machine that costs millions to develop and requires a team of people to operate. It's not really a fair comparison and purely on a cost basis you wouldn't particularly expect a bike to be able to compete.
So....going back to normal road legal cars that you could take to the shops, I still think the Mclaren P1 would be the car I'd pick for the challenge. However, would I bet my mortgage on it being faster around the TT than the fastest road legal sportsbike....Nope. Which considering it costs nearly £1 million, says a huge amount about how impressive the bikes are.
Yea but you'd have a ball trying to get close, when you said P1 earlier my thoughts were to low & to wide to truly exploit it's BHP advantage I'd go for the 675LT I think it would be more likely to give a bike a hard time.In the sorts of comparisons you're talking about, I would personally expect the car to lose out. Whilst the Mclaren is very much a supercar, it's still a vehicle you could comfortably use to travel across continents. It's not really a dedicated 'track' car.
When these conversations come up I personally always tend to think about proper downforce cars, an advantage which bikes unfortunately can't exploit.
When you compare Moto GP to F1, an F1 car takes about 1m 30s to lap a circuit compared to roughly 2m 00s Moto GP time.
That's a HUGE amount of spare time to have in hand for any 'unsuitable' sections of the TT course.
(Of course, bikes have the advantage of actually being able to overtake each other and provide close racing and entertainment)
You're also talking about a machine that costs millions to develop and requires a team of people to operate. It's not really a fair comparison and purely on a cost basis you wouldn't particularly expect a bike to be able to compete.
So....going back to normal road legal cars that you could take to the shops, I still think the Mclaren P1 would be the car I'd pick for the challenge. However, would I bet my mortgage on it being faster around the TT than the fastest road legal sportsbike....Nope. Which considering it costs nearly £1 million, says a huge amount about how impressive the bikes are.
When you take price into it then yes the bikes have a huge advantage but in performance terms then bikes can't compete with downforce for fat sticky tyres & brakes but they do counter with weight & BHP.
My old BMW dyno'd at 184.3bhp @ the wheels & 206kgs fully fuelled
Arbs said:
I don't get this record, why don't more people go for it? It seems uncharted waters, what with everyone chasing for a ring time, surely tt record has massive bragging rights. Yet only Subaru only seem to have gone for it. The tt is a bike event, and if they start allowing more and more cars to go around will it spoil it or enhance it?
It occurs to me that something could be set up if there was interest? The TT must be great for the economy so pick another week in the year for a 4 wheel TT, why not?Different categories ranging from full on prototype through to (all road legal) super car, 4wd, 2wd, light weight (Ariel .etc.).
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