RE: PistonHeads - hypocrisy matters: PH Blog

[triathlonstu]

Simonium said:

This sort of amateur blogging make my teeth itch.

[is1]

Some Gump said:

I'd be interested to know from someone with inside knowledge how the 2 set ups differ. Of course, people with chips on shoulders can assume snobbery, but a few setup tweets and some software can make a profound difference.
After all, the hated, ponderous box in the Merc sls and the much loved, fast box in the Ferrari 458 were the exact same unit. Apparently Merc wanted it to last, and Ferrari wanted performance, and if it breaks well you can fix it. Just software.

Equally, you can transform e.g a caterham from an understeery mess into a perfect handling car by adjusting 2 bolts and turning a ring spanner. The difference between safe and exciting can be just a few mm!

Quite right.
In fact, I'm sure there was an article on here some time back scribed by Dan about the VAG group and how the various ostensibly similar cars "felt" different and whether it was due to fine tweaking to reflect target customer/price. I recall the example cited of a Golf GTI (previous gen) feeling a little more sprightly/special than a Leon, likely because it had been tweaked that way for market positioning of the various brands within the VAG stable.

[Tuvra]

Triumph Man said:

I don't like hatchbacks, so the Golf R doesn't do it for me. I do like saloons though, and the S3 is available as a saloon, so I'd have one of those. I wonder if VW would produce a Jetta R....

[MK1RS Bruce]

This for me hits the nail on the head. Given that there isn't a huge gulf in price difference, why would anyone buy the golf over the S3 (attractive finance deals aside). My opinion is that they are bought by people who do not want to appear as being badge snobs, however if a badge means nothing then the FRS / megane RS / Leon / octavia are the same or better cars for less money. So really Golf R owners are the guilty ones of hypocrisy.

However having said that I am lead to believe the finance deals on Golf Rs beat almost anything else around so that's probably the major driver for them being so popular.

[Leins]

Tuvra said:

I do like the look of those a lot. Quite a fan of smaller, quick estate cars

[jon-]

Having been lucky enough to back to back the Golf R vs the RS3 on a number of tracks around Europe, with a fair number of automotive journalist, the overwhelming majority prefered the Golfs handling at the limit on track.

[Tuvra]

MK1RS Bruce said:

FRS / megane RS / Leon / octavia are the same or better cars for less money. So really Golf R owners are the guilty ones of hypocrisy.

Yeah right

The FRS maybe, but thats a new car versus a car that is 2-3 year old already, plus the FRS still hasn't been launched....

[rtz62]

Funny how my perception of both cars is warped by the wheel choice, and also choice of colour.
The Audi looks great in grey, blue, red and silver. Standard wheels to me look fine.
The Golf looks fine in grey and silver, especially good in red but the other colours leave me cold. Again, standard wheels would be my choice.
Funny, when as you say, the cars are basically the same under the skin, and although most of my choice would be based on design, how the car looks, (I wonder if some of it is down to being a marque-tart....?) but how much the colour influences me.
I too drive an Octy estate, in lovely dark Quartz metallic grey, but the one delivered to you looks like the aftermath of a childs colouring experiment, (although it may be Meteor Grey? Difficult to tell from my pie phone..). They also offer some rancid colours, including a metallic or pearl Green which absolutely turns me off.
Again, funny how a car that is basically the same underneath (ok, the Octy is down on power and is FWD) can look so different, have a different colour palette and appeal so differently.
Back to the S3 and the Golf, I'd choose the S3, purely because aesthetically it looks so much better than the Golf, not because of it being an Audi.

[Vocht]

MK1RS Bruce said:

This for me hits the nail on the head. Given that there isn't a huge gulf in price difference, why would anyone buy the golf over the S3 (attractive finance deals aside).

The Golf R comes with a lot more kit as standard (such as adaptive cruise control, front and rear parking sensors etc) all of which are optional extras on the S3 which all add up. When you compare their prices spec for spec the gulf is significant enough to make the R much more attractive.

In regards to the article, I think Dan has a point if you're looking for a fast but discreet 'point and squirt' type of Q car. However dynamically the Golf R is much better set up than the S3, even beating the RS3 in Evo's 'Deadly Rivals' track test. Even a car with 62 more horses, the same chassis and arguably a better tweaked set up coudln't beat the R dynamically.

The S3 for me is nothing more than a nice, fast, premium GT hatchback. With the Golf R being a true hot hatch.

[anonymous-user]

Simonium said:

Can someone please buy the author a re-entry for GCSE english? Actually that's generous. Key Stage 2 would suffice. This is a terribly, terribly written article. This sort of amateur blogging make my teeth itch.

As regards the car, I'd have either but if pushed would probably angle for the Golf.

What a nasty stupid comment.

[anonymous-user]

Dan Trent said:

Funny you should ask that; look what arrived on the PH long-term test fleet yesterday...

I'll get back to you!

Dan

There is just something very appealing about the look of this car.

[PhantomPH]

I'm still a big fan of my S3 - which is strange for me, since I normally like to change cars every 5-6 minutes...or so my wife would have you believe.

Not sure I 100% agree with the idea of the S3 looking like all other A3s, tho. Perhaps in hatchback version yes, but not for me. In fact I would say that whilst cocks drive Audis (some would say my car suits me down to the ground) and that can colour opinions, mine gets regular admiring glances.

I'll just leave this here...:

[J99kke]

Vocht said:

In regards to the article, I think Dan has a point if you're looking for a fast but discreet 'point and squirt' type of Q car. However dynamically the Golf R is much better set up than the S3, even beating the RS3 in Evo's 'Deadly Rivals' track test. Even a car with 62 more horses, the same chassis and arguably a better tweaked set up coudln't beat the R dynamically.

The S3 for me is nothing more than a nice, fast, premium GT hatchback. With the Golf R being a true hot hatch.

You are 110% right Vocht IMO...all I would add and someone mentioned it further up the posts that the S3 Saloon has a niche with there being no Jetta/Golf Saloon R alternative. That being said those who got their S3's for £300-320 pcm then having to pay hundreds ontop for kit like adaptive cruise and rear sensors when they are included on the R seriously need their head scanning...atleast the next owner would get loads of kit

[Axionknight]

PhantomPH said:

I'm still a big fan of my S3 - which is strange for me, since I normally like to change cars every 5-6 minutes...or so my wife would have you believe.

Not sure I 100% agree with the idea of the S3 looking like all other A3s, tho. Perhaps in hatchback version yes, but not for me. In fact I would say that whilst cocks drive Audis (some would say my car suits me down to the ground) and that can colour opinions, mine gets regular admiring glances.

I'll just leave this here...:

That and the S1 are the only two Audis that aren't out of my financial reach (R8 and RS6/7) that I would even consider owning. The S3 saloon looks purposeful and a little bit mean - just enough of a change in its looks to make it a cool car IMO.

The hatchback can go in the bin, however.

[Dale487]

Dan Trent said:

Dale487 said:

There is nothing wrong with having a preference and you haven't dismissed the Golf R out of hand.

How about this question to test your hypercritic credentials? Golf GTI PP or Skoda Octavia VRS 230?

Funny you should ask that; look what arrived on the PH long-term test fleet yesterday...

I'll get back to you!

Dan

First impressions? The Skoda or the Golf GTI PP?

[Dan Trent]

I haven't driven it yet - James is running it and, handily, off the back of his time with the Golf R. Literally just arrived so watch this space.

Dan

[Byker28i]

PhantomPH said:

In fact I would say that whilst cocks drive Audis... (

IMHO they've all graduated back to BMW, especially 1 class

[WokkaWokka]

PhantomPH said:

I'm still a big fan of my S3 - which is strange for me, since I normally like to change cars every 5-6 minutes...or so my wife would have you believe.

Not sure I 100% agree with the idea of the S3 looking like all other A3s, tho. Perhaps in hatchback version yes, but not for me. In fact I would say that whilst cocks drive Audis (some would say my car suits me down to the ground) and that can colour opinions, mine gets regular admiring glances.

I'll just leave this here...:

That looks absolutely lovely mate. I think I read about your car on an Audi forum when we were all getting them. I didn't consider the R, I am happy to admit I am a bit of a badge snob although I have owned VW's in the past and I certainly wouldn't say no to one in the future.

I think the S3 is great I drive 25K a year and its a great car, goes like stink and there could be more unleashed from the engine if you wanted to. I've taken it to the alps and it was great all the way, very comfortable, unfortunately our roads in England are not so good!

I was thinking of trading up to a Cayman S but the company car tax is absolutely ridiculous so for now (Ignore my previous comment) I am considering the Golf GTE for when I make the change (Not menopause....or maybe it is.)

[ahenners]

Looking forward to the VRS 230 updates!!

[PhantomPH]

WokkaWokka said:

That looks absolutely lovely mate. I think I read about your car on an Audi forum when we were all getting them. I didn't consider the R, I am happy to admit I am a bit of a badge snob although I have owned VW's in the past and I certainly wouldn't say no to one in the future.

I think the S3 is great I drive 25K a year and its a great car, goes like stink and there could be more unleashed from the engine if you wanted to. I've taken it to the alps and it was great all the way, very comfortable, unfortunately our roads in England are not so good!

I was thinking of trading up to a Cayman S but the company car tax is absolutely ridiculous so for now (Ignore my previous comment) I am considering the Golf GTE for when I make the change (Not menopause....or maybe it is.)

Thanks mate. Interestingly enough, I have just been looking at Porsches as well! And this leads me to another bit of love for the S3 - so far I am struggling to justify the extra expense vs increased utility (economist speak there).

The plain English version is that my wife (as the voice of reason) poses questions like, "How much faster do you need to go on the way to work?! Is it really worth all that extra money just to be stuck behind a queue of traffic in a Porsche instead of your Audi?". Fair points. I know this is Pistonheads where I have to pretend I live in my car and track it every day and can drive like Senna crossed with McRae, but the reality is that my commute is still a boring drive with progress largely dictated to by the 6 ditherers up ahead and weekends feature family and daughters singing along to Capital FM. I'm struggling to justify extra expense on the rare occasions when I can go for it.

Maybe I am just getting old. DAMN YOU ADVANCING YEARS!!!