RE: Tesla Model S: PH Carpool
Discussion
A work colleague of mine has just bought one and he thinks it's great.
One morning he and his wife were taking their daughter to school somewhere in London. He had the key in his pocket. He got out of it to go to the rail station somewhere en route and being dropped off in a hurry inadvertently kept the key.
His wife apparently drove on for a good few miles before coming to a dead stop on the busy Westway and had to be rescued. It had taken all that time to recognise that the key had disappeared.
One morning he and his wife were taking their daughter to school somewhere in London. He had the key in his pocket. He got out of it to go to the rail station somewhere en route and being dropped off in a hurry inadvertently kept the key.
His wife apparently drove on for a good few miles before coming to a dead stop on the busy Westway and had to be rescued. It had taken all that time to recognise that the key had disappeared.
Tim16V said:
A work colleague of mine has just bought one and he thinks it's great.
One morning he and his wife were taking their daughter to school somewhere in London. He had the key in his pocket. He got out of it to go to the rail station somewhere en route and being dropped off in a hurry inadvertently kept the key.
His wife apparently drove on for a good few miles before coming to a dead stop on the busy Westway and had to be rescued. It had taken all that time to recognise that the key had disappeared.
That's quite bad. Most keyless systems I know of let you drive the car once the key is removed from the cabin. The caveat being, once you turn the engine off thats it. On some cars when you come to turn the engine off you actually have to hit the start/stop button twice because on the first go it will warn you... no key, you won't be able to restart, are you sure.One morning he and his wife were taking their daughter to school somewhere in London. He had the key in his pocket. He got out of it to go to the rail station somewhere en route and being dropped off in a hurry inadvertently kept the key.
His wife apparently drove on for a good few miles before coming to a dead stop on the busy Westway and had to be rescued. It had taken all that time to recognise that the key had disappeared.
Having it just stop dead when it randomly decides it doesn't have a valid key needs changing.
There's a case in he US where a guy bought a Tesla write off for $50k. The damage wasn't bad and the owner claimed it only cost $8k to put right. But, Tesla wouldn't "support" the car with out their own full inspection and the owner had to sign a document saying that if Tesla found anything they would fix it. The owner would not do this because he feared Tesla would rip out all his second hand parts and insist on replacing with new. So, the car became worthless and was sold on at a loss. I don't know if the next owner allowed Tesla to do an approved repair after he bought it.
I'd be interested to see how this could impact insurance of new cars and the longevity of the car in the second hand market. Also, the free data for maps is as a result of Tesla needing the car to report back to base on the battery status. The older sports cars were known for bricking batteries so Tesla built in diagnostics.
Having said all that, I'm a Tesla convert. If I didn't have a company car I would have a Tesla. Ironic because in the UK the Tedla makes most sense to the company car driver. I'm in the US where I'm charged about $300 a year in tax to drive a fully expensed V6 car which cost $35k. A $100k Tesla dose make sense to the company car driver.
I'd be interested to see how this could impact insurance of new cars and the longevity of the car in the second hand market. Also, the free data for maps is as a result of Tesla needing the car to report back to base on the battery status. The older sports cars were known for bricking batteries so Tesla built in diagnostics.
Having said all that, I'm a Tesla convert. If I didn't have a company car I would have a Tesla. Ironic because in the UK the Tedla makes most sense to the company car driver. I'm in the US where I'm charged about $300 a year in tax to drive a fully expensed V6 car which cost $35k. A $100k Tesla dose make sense to the company car driver.
Somewhat ironic to hear the Snake Oil Salesman, Musk talking about a green revolution etc, when the owners talking nothing about this but do spend much time talking about the straight line performance. I have yet to see even four people in one and mostly seem to be driven by winners more interested in image than the substance of the car.
Every single stage of the lifecycle of owning a Tesla is tied to using fossil fuels. In all senses, other than more than a ton slab of batteries, it is completely conventional and thus pointless.
Compare that to the i3 which will spawn a complete range. Americaphiles like to conveniently miss the supposed rationale for such a car.
Every single stage of the lifecycle of owning a Tesla is tied to using fossil fuels. In all senses, other than more than a ton slab of batteries, it is completely conventional and thus pointless.
Compare that to the i3 which will spawn a complete range. Americaphiles like to conveniently miss the supposed rationale for such a car.
Whilst it's easy to see the auto industry trying to "beat on" Tesla, the fact is that Tesla are attempting to "do an Apple" with cars - and Apple are not the business model you want for your car.
Finite lifetimes, planned obsolence, limited repair, limited access to spare parts and minimal places you can go to for support - not good things with cars.
You can't make something as complex as a car and then scrap it at 5 or even 10 years old - it's not an iPad where the most expensive bits can be recycled cheaply - Tesla, however, seem to see about 3-5 years as the point they are no longer interested in their vehicles.
The "direct to customer" thing is only going to lead to expensive running costs and limited customer choice - and as they get more customers, the support will get s
ttier just like every single other company in the world has (even Apple's support isn't what it used-to-be)
The cars seem fine - the company ethos seems poisonous
Finite lifetimes, planned obsolence, limited repair, limited access to spare parts and minimal places you can go to for support - not good things with cars.
You can't make something as complex as a car and then scrap it at 5 or even 10 years old - it's not an iPad where the most expensive bits can be recycled cheaply - Tesla, however, seem to see about 3-5 years as the point they are no longer interested in their vehicles.
The "direct to customer" thing is only going to lead to expensive running costs and limited customer choice - and as they get more customers, the support will get s
ttier just like every single other company in the world has (even Apple's support isn't what it used-to-be)The cars seem fine - the company ethos seems poisonous
I really like the Tesla - its about the best looking saloon out there - & the performance of even the lower end models sounds phenomenal and from following a couple on the motorway their overtaking punch is unbelievable.
The problem is the cheapest one for sale is £55k and living in a terrace with no off street parking - how would I charge it?
The problem is the cheapest one for sale is £55k and living in a terrace with no off street parking - how would I charge it?
rtz62 said:
Otispunkmeyer said:
rtz62 said:
There are several of these, silently rampaging the roads around the Chesterfield area, and seem to be exclusively Midnight Silver a metallic or Obsidian Black Metallic.
I have had the experience of being silently 'zoomed' by one, accelerating away from me on the M1 like some giant invisible hand had pulled an exceedingly strong, and equally invisible, rubber band and then suddenly let it go.
My only negative comment would be that from any distance, they look very much like a Mondeo from behind, or a Passat / Insignia, especially depending which alloy wheels it has fitted.
I would love to try, and possibly own one of these, my only concerns would be the availability of charging stations (notwithstanding the ones at motorway service stations, IKEA etc), and the cost of replacing the battery packs I a few years time - does anyone know how much they will be?
I'm aware that 2 years ago the battery pack was circa $45k, but I'd guess prices will fall as battery production is ramped up and as soon as different models start using the same basic battery.
Still, a hell of a hit if you're unfortunate enough to havdan incident whereby the battery is damaged
According to Tesla the battery packs are meant to last 15 years.... not sure if that will come true, but even at 10 years most people will have "disposed" of their car as being too old and it'll be on its 4th owner or something. I rather suspect that with electric vehicles, they just won't be worth keeping around like you can do with cars today. The body isn't worth a great deal, its just sheet metal. All the value is in the battery which will be removed for recycling before the rest of the car is binned/recycled itself.I have had the experience of being silently 'zoomed' by one, accelerating away from me on the M1 like some giant invisible hand had pulled an exceedingly strong, and equally invisible, rubber band and then suddenly let it go.
My only negative comment would be that from any distance, they look very much like a Mondeo from behind, or a Passat / Insignia, especially depending which alloy wheels it has fitted.
I would love to try, and possibly own one of these, my only concerns would be the availability of charging stations (notwithstanding the ones at motorway service stations, IKEA etc), and the cost of replacing the battery packs I a few years time - does anyone know how much they will be?
I'm aware that 2 years ago the battery pack was circa $45k, but I'd guess prices will fall as battery production is ramped up and as soon as different models start using the same basic battery.
Still, a hell of a hit if you're unfortunate enough to havdan incident whereby the battery is damaged
I can imagine subsequent owners being quite happy about replacing suspension or brake parts on the Tesla (if they are available), but the killer will be the battery, no matter how much the unit cost comes down. It's not like an internal combustion engines car, where one can obtain a new cylinder head, gearbox, clutch etc (of course there may be other electrickity components in the Tesla that are replaceable at lower cost)
Not withstanding that, I like the idea of the Tesla, it makes me think of it as a Paul Smith dark grey suit, all sharp lines and style, versus (for instance, a Mondeo) a similar looking Marks & Spencer suit, which although ostensibly similar just doesn't somehow feel as good
Both do the same thing, but in different ways.
I'm not sure how that analogy came about, but I'm overdue my medication, so please feel free to rip the arse out of me!!!
http://priuschat.com/threads/gen-ii-prius-individu...
Is a good example of what will be happening to Teslas as they grow older, remembering of course that the lack of moving parts means that there is less to fail in the first place.
Itsallicanafford said:
17 Inch info screen...i've only got a 26 inch telly in my front room...
How Tesla has managed to blindside every other motor manufacturer from a standing start is truly amazing.
As someone who was trying to sell the EV concept to mainstream manufacturers 2004-2007 (specifically my range extending engine which avoids giant heavy expensive batteries), I can tell you that these people are not sitting on big freedom filled budgets. Rigid corporate structure does not given any individual freedom to take a bold risky decision. I might as well have been speaking to the wall, some of the blank expressions I got were verging on hilarious. I reckoned that as I left the various meetings there was a swift call the local secure mental institution with a tip off.How Tesla has managed to blindside every other motor manufacturer from a standing start is truly amazing.
Lets remember that Tesla was making the Elise EV yonks ago and it still did not register.
The first Prius came out last century, i.e. 20 year old tech.
Fast moving visionaries are not in charge of giant corps. Talk about blind.
But also some of the threads on here even six years ago were pretty hilarious, PH should dig a few up for a comparison.
There are still a few flat earthers on here, but even here the majority have seen the light.
I'm not a Tesla fanatic but fair play to them for going with it. The Model appears a fairly bold attempt at more 'mainstream' buyers.
However, what I've not heard on this thread yet is what the approx. range of the 'S' is with normal driving, on a single charge...? That would be useful to know in guaging just how far forward the Tesla has moved the performance electric car....
However, what I've not heard on this thread yet is what the approx. range of the 'S' is with normal driving, on a single charge...? That would be useful to know in guaging just how far forward the Tesla has moved the performance electric car....
rtz62 said:
I agree with your thoughts on this. However, a car at that age will drop down to owners who aren't so bothered about maintenance, and probably may use second hand or pattern parts etc where necessary.
I can imagine subsequent owners being quite happy about replacing suspension or brake parts on the Tesla (if they are available), but the killer will be the battery, no matter how much the unit cost comes down. It's not like an internal combustion engines car, where one can obtain a new cylinder head, gearbox, clutch etc (of course there may be other electrickity components in the Tesla that are replaceable at lower cost)
Not withstanding that, I like the idea of the Tesla, it makes me think of it as a Paul Smith dark grey suit, all sharp lines and style, versus (for instance, a Mondeo) a similar looking Marks & Spencer suit, which although ostensibly similar just doesn't somehow feel as good
Both do the same thing, but in different ways.
I'm not sure how that analogy came about, but I'm overdue my medication, so please feel free to rip the arse out of me!!!
The batteries do not need replacing all the time, that is a Clarkson myth. There is a Nissan LEAF taxi in Cornwall which has done 150,000 miles on the original battery in two years while being rapid charged (0-80% in 30 minutes) several times every day. Basically very hard to give a vehicle a harder time than that and the battery does not need changing. Added to this the majority of cars are coming with 8 year battery warranties and that wipes out a lot of fear I would imagine for the first couple of owners. I can imagine subsequent owners being quite happy about replacing suspension or brake parts on the Tesla (if they are available), but the killer will be the battery, no matter how much the unit cost comes down. It's not like an internal combustion engines car, where one can obtain a new cylinder head, gearbox, clutch etc (of course there may be other electrickity components in the Tesla that are replaceable at lower cost)
Not withstanding that, I like the idea of the Tesla, it makes me think of it as a Paul Smith dark grey suit, all sharp lines and style, versus (for instance, a Mondeo) a similar looking Marks & Spencer suit, which although ostensibly similar just doesn't somehow feel as good
Both do the same thing, but in different ways.
I'm not sure how that analogy came about, but I'm overdue my medication, so please feel free to rip the arse out of me!!!
Mechanical side the EVs are generally very simple and most of the components are sealed for life unless there is an issue. Brakes get an easier time of it because the regen takes a lot of load off them unless you drive very hard all the time.
bertie said:
fatboy b said:
So no pics of the comedy interior then 
K
Not sure what you mean?K
The single crappest piece of car interior I've ever had the misfortune to own is the current JLR touchscreen system.
Utterly hopeless, the Tesla tech murders it, but then so does anything!
And my touch screen in the Jag is fine. Granted it's not the most up to date system around, but it looks ok, and fits in with it's surroundings.
unlike this...
Edited by fatboy b on Monday 18th April 17:28
eastsider said:
Range is the thing - real world reports please!
One of my Le Mans group is bringing his P85. I think he'll be routing via Paris for an Ikea based supercharger. Will be interesting to see how he gets on.
Range is pretty meaningless imo. How long will it last in the UK traffic jams in the summer time with the aircon on?One of my Le Mans group is bringing his P85. I think he'll be routing via Paris for an Ikea based supercharger. Will be interesting to see how he gets on.
Edited by fatboy b on Monday 18th April 17:33
While I haven't completely fallen for the interior (non haptic massive touchscreen is a giant distraction in an age where drivers are easily distracted by their 4-6inch phone screens) I do get the whole concept of zero emissions driving.
A few major clangers though
--when the world adopts a more meaningful 'well to wheel' emissions calculations, that is when we will really see the difference in environmental efficiency between a battery powered vehicle and a conventional one
--no real way to recycle these batteries
The fact is that this company has shaken up an industry renowned for its lack of agility and risk averse nature. Wireless charging, over the air software updates etc, are just some of the technologies the industry is now rapidly pursuing thanks to being blindsided by the upstart.
A few major clangers though
--when the world adopts a more meaningful 'well to wheel' emissions calculations, that is when we will really see the difference in environmental efficiency between a battery powered vehicle and a conventional one
--no real way to recycle these batteries
The fact is that this company has shaken up an industry renowned for its lack of agility and risk averse nature. Wireless charging, over the air software updates etc, are just some of the technologies the industry is now rapidly pursuing thanks to being blindsided by the upstart.
fatboy b said:
Ill fitting interior in line with most American cars, and and utterly stupid looking centre screen.
And my touch screen in the Jag is fine. Granted it's not the most up to date system around, but it looks ok, and fits in with it's surroundings.
unlike this...
You do know That's not a Model SAnd my touch screen in the Jag is fine. Granted it's not the most up to date system around, but it looks ok, and fits in with it's surroundings.
unlike this...
Edited by fatboy b on Monday 18th April 17:28
The clue is in the picture title.
Even so, I think it's way more progressive than most car interiors.
And the nav in my RR sport is the slowest lariest thing I've ever known and one reason it's going.
Edited by bertie on Monday 18th April 17:51
bertie said:
fatboy b said:
Ill fitting interior in line with most American cars, and and utterly stupid looking centre screen.
And my touch screen in the Jag is fine. Granted it's not the most up to date system around, but it looks ok, and fits in with it's surroundings.
unlike this...
That's not a Model SAnd my touch screen in the Jag is fine. Granted it's not the most up to date system around, but it looks ok, and fits in with it's surroundings.
unlike this...
Edited by fatboy b on Monday 18th April 17:28
I really wanted one of these but a) my local retailer didnt seem to know there arse from their elbow b) the quality is way down on what Id expect on a near £100k car c) residuals look a bit shaky, I'm guessing as the trade are frightened?
Getting into a conventional car after driving one of these though feels like getting into an antique!
Getting into a conventional car after driving one of these though feels like getting into an antique!
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