RE: Tesla Model S: PH Carpool
Discussion
p1stonhead said:
fatboy b said:
AnotherClarkey said:
ORD said:
We are still left with a motorway barge that can't go more than a couple of hundred miles on the motorway at a time. It's a long distance car with a city car range.
You can say that as many times as you want but it doesn't mean it is valid.
Edited by fatboy b on Thursday 21st April 16:13
£50 to do 1000 miles so for an average person, £600 a year to go 12,000 miles? Sounds bloody good to me and this allowing a tenner a charge which I think is a bit high.
I need one car that can do local trips, 100 mile trips & 400 mile trips in one stretch. The customers I go and see don't have the infrastructure to charge the car. I'd also like to do 600+ miles in a day on a European road trip with stops for a sandwich/coffee/toilet. The range restrictions and lack of infrastructure don't suit my use profile. And as I find it also fugly, regardless of what powers it, it's not for me. You could put a 600bhp V8 in it. I won't be buying it.
Besides all that why oh why would you spend all that ££££ over and above what an ordinary car costs so you can fuel it for £600 a year? Over a 3 year period, you're saving £7200 over a car that does 20mpg. Life is too short mate.
fatboy b said:
Besides all that why oh why would you spend all that ££££ over and above what an ordinary car costs so you can fuel it for £600 a year? Over a 3 year period, you're saving £7200 over a car that does 20mpg. Life is too short mate.
The answer to that one is very simple - tax. As a BiK company car, a bottom end model-S is barely more expensive than a 320d. Compare the top end Tesla to something of comparable size and performance (maybe an M5?) and the Tesla will probably work out at under half the total cost of ownership.
Plus, for some people, the Tesla is simply a more desirable car.
Edited by kambites on Thursday 21st April 19:02
fatboy b said:
p1stonhead said:
fatboy b said:
AnotherClarkey said:
ORD said:
We are still left with a motorway barge that can't go more than a couple of hundred miles on the motorway at a time. It's a long distance car with a city car range.
You can say that as many times as you want but it doesn't mean it is valid.Edited by fatboy b on Thursday 21st April 16:13
£50 to do 1000 miles so for an average person, £600 a year to go 12,000 miles? Sounds bloody good to me and this allowing a tenner a charge which I think is a bit high.
I need one car that can do local trips, 100 mile trips & 400 mile trips in one stretch. The customers I go and see don't have the infrastructure to charge the car. I'd also like to do 600+ miles in a day on a European road trip with stops for a sandwich/coffee/toilet. The range restrictions and lack of infrastructure don't suit my use profile. And as I find it also fugly, regardless of what powers it, it's not for me. You could put a 600bhp V8 in it. I won't be buying it.
Besides all that why oh why would you spend all that ££££ over and above what an ordinary car costs so you can fuel it for £600 a year? Over a 3 year period, you're saving £7200 over a car that does 20mpg. Life is too short mate.
For most people who don't do random long journeys there is no loss either because it's a fantastic car so your 'life is too short' argument is also invalid.
kambites said:
I think that's the point about the Model-S really. It's arguably the first mass-produced pure EV which has focussed on being a good car rather than purely on being cheap to run and/or environmentally friendly.
Exactly. Fatboy is trying to dismiss it because he sat in one once and didn't like the finishing and also he doesn't like the looks of it. I'm not arguing it's better than every car, I'm arguing it's a good car as a standalone item. He's trying to say to a bad car but hasnt even moved 1ft in one.
It's not even remotely a poor car and would suit a vast amount of the population down to a tee.
bertie said:
As is my Ferrari FF, with what I think most would agree about the most charismatic V12 available and 652bhp.....
Use it every day, and it's lovely, I'd argue the "best" car Ferrari make, but if fun is on the cards it's not the one I go for.
I love the FF (and Ferrari V12s in general). It's probably not the same type of (maybe 'pure') fun offered by a truly lightweight sports car but must be very enjoyable nonetheless, which is the point I was making about 5m long, big engines cars. Use it every day, and it's lovely, I'd argue the "best" car Ferrari make, but if fun is on the cards it's not the one I go for.
For your purposes and with your stable, the Tesla is a great choice but I only have space for one car and it needs to do 3-400 miles a day on occasion, often in some quite rural locations, so it needs to be ICE really. I also want a car that offers some semblance of engagement, which the Tesla really doesn't (actually, an M5 doesn't either - too capable for its own good). It's getting harder to find engaging cars with all the turbo'd engines in AMGs, RS, M cars and if they become any more sterile, who knows, I might join the Tesla ranks (if they can improve the quality/feel).
Chris Stott said:
No major criticism of the driving basics (steering/brakes/ride/handling). The steering doesn’t have a lot of ‘feel’, but that’s true of most new cars. It’s well weighted (at least in sport mode) and it’s very easy to place the car. To drive, the car feels most like a Panamera – big, heavy, wide, compliant, but with an underlying solidity. Plenty of roll resistance, but not overly stiff vertically, so the ride is decent (and quiet). The car can be driven VERY quickly on A roads, and exiting tight corners really is hilarious as the thing just rockets away. Is it fun? Hmmm, not so much once the novelty wears off, but that applies as much to its competitors. They just aren’t that sort of car.
Interesting you say that, I found they drove quite differently and the Tesla felt a bit flimsy. kambites said:
It's a fair point; for the tiny proportion of people who ever do more than 200 miles in one go; the range will be an issue.
No car suits everyone.
Not sure that's entirely right. I rarely drive more than 200 miles but I quite often drive 100 miles in a fashion that would see more than 1/2 of the juice gone and then drive back later. I would have to find somewhere to plug in each time I do that. That is a hassle. Some people are not sensitive to hassle. Others are acutely sensitive to hassle and time wasting. No car suits everyone.
ORD said:
kambites said:
It's a fair point; for the tiny proportion of people who ever do more than 200 miles in one go; the range will be an issue.
No car suits everyone.
Not sure that's entirely right. I rarely drive more than 200 miles but I quite often drive 100 miles in a fashion that would see more than 1/2 of the juice gone and then drive back later. No car suits everyone.
I probably drive my Elise in a way which would see the range down into double figures but I can't imagine a situation where I'd drive a model-S like that. I don't think I could afford the tyres if I tried driving a two-tonne car the way I drive my Elise.
Edited by kambites on Thursday 21st April 21:44
kambites said:
ORD said:
kambites said:
It's a fair point; for the tiny proportion of people who ever do more than 200 miles in one go; the range will be an issue.
No car suits everyone.
Not sure that's entirely right. I rarely drive more than 200 miles but I quite often drive 100 miles in a fashion that would see more than 1/2 of the juice gone and then drive back later. No car suits everyone.
ORD said:
kambites said:
It's a fair point; for the tiny proportion of people who ever do more than 200 miles in one go; the range will be an issue.
No car suits everyone.
Not sure that's entirely right. I rarely drive more than 200 miles but I quite often drive 100 miles in a fashion that would see more than 1/2 of the juice gone and then drive back later. I would have to find somewhere to plug in each time I do that. That is a hassle. Some people are not sensitive to hassle. Others are acutely sensitive to hassle and time wasting. No car suits everyone.
It's a bit of a tongue in cheek argument but it's a total rethink if you can get around for free - at the moment it's not 100% there because there are not a million super chargers. But one day they're may be a fair few more than now - it remains to be seen if they will remain free but they will for the Model3 anyway. It's not that much of a hassle for free travel.
ORD said:
In whatever I am driving, but I see your point. Even in a barge, I still think I would get through 1/2 a battery in under 100 miles, which means I would have to charge any day that I want to go 100 miles somewhere and then come back. That's quite limiting. And I don't think it's as unusual as you suggested.
Hmm, I think we'll have to agree to differ there. I don't think more than a tiny handful of the people who buy two tonne luxury saloon cars drive ever them particularly hard.That's probably somewhere the model-3 will have more issues because £30k 3-series sized cars probably have more tendency to be driven enthusiastically than 80k 7-series sized cars. I'd still bet less than one in ten 3-series buyers have ever been within 10% of the red-line, though.
Edited by kambites on Thursday 21st April 21:51
kambites said:
Hmm, I think we'll have to agree to differ there. I don't think more than a tiny handful of the people who buy two tonne luxury saloon cars drive ever them particularly hard.
That's probably somewhere the model-3 will have more issues because £30k 3-series sized cars probably have more tendency to be driven enthusiastically than 80k 7-series sized cars. I'd still bet less than one in ten 3-series buyers have ever been within 10% of the red-line, though.
And if you get to the one and only redline in a model s you are doing 130mph+ so it probably doesn't happen that often That's probably somewhere the model-3 will have more issues because £30k 3-series sized cars probably have more tendency to be driven enthusiastically than 80k 7-series sized cars. I'd still bet less than one in ten 3-series buyers have ever been within 10% of the red-line, though.
Edited by kambites on Thursday 21st April 21:51
ORD said:
Not sure that's entirely right. I rarely drive more than 200 miles but I quite often drive 100 miles in a fashion that would see more than 1/2 of the juice gone and then drive back later. I would have to find somewhere to plug in each time I do that. That is a hassle. Some people are not sensitive to hassle. Others are acutely sensitive to hassle and time wasting.
The book range of a 90D is 320 miles, with a bit of stop start and some spirited driving 200 miles is a minimum so you're all sorted!For the 3 people who seem very anti this car....If the Tesla isn't the car for you due to an unusual usage profile , I wonder why bother persisting telling those who it does suit that they are wrong.
kambites said:
Hmm, I think we'll have to agree to differ there. I don't think more than a tiny handful of the people who buy two tonne luxury saloon cars drive ever them particularly hard.
That's probably somewhere the model-3 will have more issues because £30k 3-series sized cars probably have more tendency to be driven enthusiastically than 80k 7-series sized cars. I'd still bet less than one in ten 3-series buyers have ever been within 10% of the red-line, though.
I think big cars get driven harder than you think. I don't exactly drift my cars round roundabouts but certainly use a lot of their potential, as do a number of mates of mine with big Jags, AMGs, M cars etc. People who drive those sorts of cars purely for status might not drive them hard but I'd wager that petrolheads do. That's probably somewhere the model-3 will have more issues because £30k 3-series sized cars probably have more tendency to be driven enthusiastically than 80k 7-series sized cars. I'd still bet less than one in ten 3-series buyers have ever been within 10% of the red-line, though.
Edited by kambites on Thursday 21st April 21:51
Mosdef said:
I think big cars get driven harder than you think. I don't exactly drift my cars round roundabouts but certainly use a lot of their potential, as do a number of mates of mine with big Jags, AMGs, M cars etc. People who drive those sorts of cars purely for status might not drive them hard but I'd wager that petrolheads do.
Well yes but Petrolheads make up, what, 5% of the car-buying public? Probably not even that these days. 
bertie said:
The book range of a 90D is 320 miles, with a bit of stop start and some spirited driving 200 miles is a minimum so you're all sorted!
For the 3 people who seem very anti this car....If the Tesla isn't the car for you due to an unusual usage profile , I wonder why bother persisting telling those who it does suit that they are wrong.
I've not done that. Straw Man. Sensitive soul. For the 3 people who seem very anti this car....If the Tesla isn't the car for you due to an unusual usage profile , I wonder why bother persisting telling those who it does suit that they are wrong.
ORD said:
bertie said:
The book range of a 90D is 320 miles, with a bit of stop start and some spirited driving 200 miles is a minimum so you're all sorted!
For the 3 people who seem very anti this car....If the Tesla isn't the car for you due to an unusual usage profile , I wonder why bother persisting telling those who it does suit that they are wrong.
I've not done that. Straw Man. Sensitive soul. For the 3 people who seem very anti this car....If the Tesla isn't the car for you due to an unusual usage profile , I wonder why bother persisting telling those who it does suit that they are wrong.
kambites said:
Mosdef said:
I think big cars get driven harder than you think. I don't exactly drift my cars round roundabouts but certainly use a lot of their potential, as do a number of mates of mine with big Jags, AMGs, M cars etc. People who drive those sorts of cars purely for status might not drive them hard but I'd wager that petrolheads do.
Well yes but Petrolheads make up, what, 5% of the car-buying public? Probably not even that these days. Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff