The new type r - is it a sales flop?
Discussion
TankRizzo said:
Drove one at work a few months ago. Felt genuinely embarrassed getting out of it.
I am not suprised. I don't particularly like any of the middle of the road new age hatches. You either get a hideously tacky chavs Halfords dream, or a dull unreliable German box. The only thing which sits in between an accountant and Ali-G is the Audi RS3. Unfortunately all the tests say it drives like crap. So there is nothing left. Unless you like Jelly mould Frenchies.k-ink said:
TankRizzo said:
Drove one at work a few months ago. Felt genuinely embarrassed getting out of it.
I am not suprised. I don't particularly like any of the middle of the road new age hatches. You either get a hideously tacky chavs Halfords dream, or a dull unreliable German box. The only thing which sits in between an accountant and Ali-G is the Audi RS3. Unfortunately all the tests say it drives like crap. So there is nothing left. Unless you like Jelly mould Frenchies.Yep the new Focus and AMG (without the body kit tat) might look ok, in a dull dark grey to tone them down. I would probably forget the German due to possible reliability issues to be fair. Still undecided regarding Ford. The front is ok but the rear is a bit lumpy.
But it is all irrelevant to me. I don't want to waste a fortune on the lastest fast family hatch. Been there done that many times before.
But it is all irrelevant to me. I don't want to waste a fortune on the lastest fast family hatch. Been there done that many times before.
LaurasOtherHalf said:
Well thanks to this thread, I've just completed a 1200 mile running in of the car I picked up on Tuesday including two full days of open pit lane at Nürburgring & Spa.
Either that or you've spent ages finding the exact angle to photograph this car where it doesn't look like a piece of modern art
Either way, I actually think that looks really rather good.
k-ink said:
TankRizzo said:
Drove one at work a few months ago. Felt genuinely embarrassed getting out of it.
I am not suprised. I don't particularly like any of the middle of the road new age hatches. You either get a hideously tacky chavs Halfords dream, or a dull unreliable German box. The only thing which sits in between an accountant and Ali-G is the Audi RS3. Unfortunately all the tests say it drives like crap. So there is nothing left. Unless you like Jelly mould Frenchies.TX.
Having started tis thread, it does come across as a car that will sell in limited numbers only.
Aside from the 'no cheap lease deals' factor, it seems most think it looks s
t and not really a car to have running on a daily basis.
Personally I think Honda (like they are in F1) are a few years behind the current generation. It seems they are hung up on 'ring times and hardcore driving. I personally think that the buying public have moved away from this obsession - it was popular about 4 or 5 years ago.
I think the hot hatch buyer of today wants the power and the ability to use it i.e. 4WD. The A45, Focus RS and Golf R are representative of a hot hatch for daily use.
Obviously there are exceptions to the above but that's how I see it generally.
Aside from the 'no cheap lease deals' factor, it seems most think it looks s
t and not really a car to have running on a daily basis.Personally I think Honda (like they are in F1) are a few years behind the current generation. It seems they are hung up on 'ring times and hardcore driving. I personally think that the buying public have moved away from this obsession - it was popular about 4 or 5 years ago.
I think the hot hatch buyer of today wants the power and the ability to use it i.e. 4WD. The A45, Focus RS and Golf R are representative of a hot hatch for daily use.
Obviously there are exceptions to the above but that's how I see it generally.
Aside from the Golf R, I just don't think ANY hot hatch is selling in big numbers. cant remember the last time I saw a current gen Megane 275 Cup or Trophy....Seat Leon Cupra? Nope, cant remember seeing one of those. I think these harder core hatches reach a limited market,
The VW is a great all rounder and has the VW Golf badge....it sells by the bucket load,
If only Honda had made something slightly less powerful, lighter and cheaper, like the EP3, they could have been onto a winner. It shouldn't be beyond Honda's engineering capability to produce a circa 1300KG heavy 3 door hot hatch for, say, £25K. Unfortunately Hondas have got very expensive, thanks to everyone trying to push their brands up market.
The VW is a great all rounder and has the VW Golf badge....it sells by the bucket load,
If only Honda had made something slightly less powerful, lighter and cheaper, like the EP3, they could have been onto a winner. It shouldn't be beyond Honda's engineering capability to produce a circa 1300KG heavy 3 door hot hatch for, say, £25K. Unfortunately Hondas have got very expensive, thanks to everyone trying to push their brands up market.
Squirrelofwoe said:
Wow that looks a different car in that dark grey!
Either that or you've spent ages finding the exact angle to photograph this car where it doesn't look like a piece of modern art
Either way, I actually think that looks really rather good.
That colour is stunning when you see it in the flesh.Either that or you've spent ages finding the exact angle to photograph this car where it doesn't look like a piece of modern art
Either way, I actually think that looks really rather good.
I reckon it's the fact that the drivetrain is pretty similar to that of its competitors e.g 2 litre turbo. In the past, CTRs stood out as they were high revving and fun. The new one isn't as different though. If they'd had a high revving turbo engine i'd think more people would be buying it. And before anyone says it's not possible etc etc there's a turbo conversion for a Clio 197 where almost no low down hp/torque is lost and the car still makes power all the way to 7300/7400 rpm.
greenarrow said:
Aside from the Golf R, I just don't think ANY hot hatch is selling in big numbers. cant remember the last time I saw a current gen Megane 275 Cup or Trophy....Seat Leon Cupra? Nope, cant remember seeing one of those. I think these harder core hatches reach a limited market,
The VW is a great all rounder and has the VW Golf badge....it sells by the bucket load,
If only Honda had made something slightly less powerful, lighter and cheaper, like the EP3, they could have been onto a winner. It shouldn't be beyond Honda's engineering capability to produce a circa 1300KG heavy 3 door hot hatch for, say, £25K. Unfortunately Hondas have got very expensive, thanks to everyone trying to push their brands up market
I think in Honda's case the JPY exchange rate is a big factor - from a sales POV various dealers have stated there's little margin in the Type R as they have tried to price it as competitively as possible and due to the JPY there's no meat on the stick.The VW is a great all rounder and has the VW Golf badge....it sells by the bucket load,
If only Honda had made something slightly less powerful, lighter and cheaper, like the EP3, they could have been onto a winner. It shouldn't be beyond Honda's engineering capability to produce a circa 1300KG heavy 3 door hot hatch for, say, £25K. Unfortunately Hondas have got very expensive, thanks to everyone trying to push their brands up market
I've seen a few about. Perhaps they jump out because of the styling, but given they've not been around that long so far i'd say they are more popular than the outgoing model.
I have seen tons of the new Focus RS in just the last two weeks. I thought Ford were clever about managing supply a demand? Seems the market is flooded. Have to say though, i would have been embarrassed to get into the last Focus RS, but this one is genuinely restrained - saw a grey one that was barely noticeable compared to the ST.
In isolation, i love the Golf R in that ink-like blue. Fantastic looking thing. However, ruined by the how common they are now.
I have seen tons of the new Focus RS in just the last two weeks. I thought Ford were clever about managing supply a demand? Seems the market is flooded. Have to say though, i would have been embarrassed to get into the last Focus RS, but this one is genuinely restrained - saw a grey one that was barely noticeable compared to the ST.
In isolation, i love the Golf R in that ink-like blue. Fantastic looking thing. However, ruined by the how common they are now.
greenarrow said:
If only Honda had made something slightly less powerful, lighter and cheaper, like the EP3, they could have been onto a winner. It shouldn't be beyond Honda's engineering capability to produce a circa 1300KG heavy 3 door hot hatch for, say, £25K. Unfortunately Hondas have got very expensive, thanks to everyone trying to push their brands up market.
You've just described my perfect car.....a Jazz/Fit Type R.
lord trumpton said:
I think in Honda's case the JPY exchange rate is a big factor - from a sales POV various dealers have stated there's little margin in the Type R as they have tried to price it as competitively as possible and due to the JPY there's no meat on the stick.
Hey? It's made in Swindon isn't it?Jonno02 said:
Worse is definitely a loose term between these two cars. Most reviews of the Golf R say it's a good car, very stable and what you'd expect. Most reviews of the Cupra say it's surprisingly great and very, very capable.
I'd have a golf R and a cupra. The only thing that draws me to the Golf R is the 4WD though, looks-wise, compared to a cupra with the sideskirts (Which give it the stance it lacks on the base cupra) and the multi-spokes, it's totally bland.
Forgot about this thread... I don't consider the Cupra a "worse" car, that's why I went for it.I'd have a golf R and a cupra. The only thing that draws me to the Golf R is the 4WD though, looks-wise, compared to a cupra with the sideskirts (Which give it the stance it lacks on the base cupra) and the multi-spokes, it's totally bland.
Golf gets a pub worthy 0-60, but my weekend/track car is what I use for pub flexing.
Leon gets marginally better fuel consumption, is a bit different to the millions of Golfs that you see every day and actually drives really well for a FWD car. Traction limited it is, but the traction control is fantastic and doesn't intrude as many do. Other than the mental flickering of an orange light somewhere in my peripheral vision you can't really tell that you're struggling for traction.
Anyway, my point wasn't Golf vs Leon really - it was Leon vs Civic. I took a dull looking car that I would never pick in a million years if I turned up to a "try any car you want from this lineup" day because the lease deals were mental. Honda don't intend to sell with numbers like VW do/did, mainly because I guess the car is a loss leader.
Remember VW get to share their drivetrain/engine platform with most of Europe, Honda have done it all in house.
k-ink said:
I am not suprised. I don't particularly like any of the middle of the road new age hatches. You either get a hideously tacky chavs Halfords dream, or a dull unreliable German box. The only thing which sits in between an accountant and Ali-G is the Audi RS3. Unfortunately all the tests say it drives like crap. So there is nothing left. Unless you like Jelly mould Frenchies.
No they don't - The majority say it doesn't live up to expectations on track against other hot hatches. 99% will be driven only on road rather than track and they are absolutely monstrous on the road.rodericb said:
lord trumpton said:
I think in Honda's case the JPY exchange rate is a big factor - from a sales POV various dealers have stated there's little margin in the Type R as they have tried to price it as competitively as possible and due to the JPY there's no meat on the stick.
Hey? It's made in Swindon isn't it?Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff