The new type r - is it a sales flop?
Discussion
Brand snobbery pure and simple, both directly in choice of vehicle and indirectly in its impact on residuals and therefore lease deals.
I don’t think you can put it down to wild styling, the Leon Cupra has the same problem and that looks very discreet in comparison. Both cars get good write ups and should be selling well. Back when the EP3 and original Leon Cupra sold in big numbers, people still had Mondeos and Vectras as company cars, now most people want a prestigious German brand to give themselves and other people comfort that they are doing well in life.
The knock on effect on reduced depreciation of the German brands and availability of cheap finance have fuelled the lease deals which the less prestigious manufacturers will struggle to match, not because they can’t offer good finance, but because their residuals are less strong.
It’s a shame, but that’s the market.
I don’t think you can put it down to wild styling, the Leon Cupra has the same problem and that looks very discreet in comparison. Both cars get good write ups and should be selling well. Back when the EP3 and original Leon Cupra sold in big numbers, people still had Mondeos and Vectras as company cars, now most people want a prestigious German brand to give themselves and other people comfort that they are doing well in life.
The knock on effect on reduced depreciation of the German brands and availability of cheap finance have fuelled the lease deals which the less prestigious manufacturers will struggle to match, not because they can’t offer good finance, but because their residuals are less strong.
It’s a shame, but that’s the market.
JackReacher said:
Brand snobbery pure and simple, both directly in choice of vehicle and indirectly in its impact on residuals and therefore lease deals.
I'd say that in the eyes of the general car buying public, the Honda "brand" is roughly on a par with VW and far stronger than Ford. Or do you mean Type-R/R/RS sub-brands? JackReacher said:
Brand snobbery pure and simple, both directly in choice of vehicle and indirectly in its impact on residuals and therefore lease deals.
I don’t think you can put it down to wild styling, the Leon Cupra has the same problem and that looks very discreet in comparison. Both cars get good write ups and should be selling well. Back when the EP3 and original Leon Cupra sold in big numbers, people still had Mondeos and Vectras as company cars, now most people want a prestigious German brand to give themselves and other people comfort that they are doing well in life.
The knock on effect on reduced depreciation of the German brands and availability of cheap finance have fuelled the lease deals which the less prestigious manufacturers will struggle to match, not because they can’t offer good finance, but because their residuals are less strong.
It’s a shame, but that’s the market.
The fact that it looks fI don’t think you can put it down to wild styling, the Leon Cupra has the same problem and that looks very discreet in comparison. Both cars get good write ups and should be selling well. Back when the EP3 and original Leon Cupra sold in big numbers, people still had Mondeos and Vectras as company cars, now most people want a prestigious German brand to give themselves and other people comfort that they are doing well in life.
The knock on effect on reduced depreciation of the German brands and availability of cheap finance have fuelled the lease deals which the less prestigious manufacturers will struggle to match, not because they can’t offer good finance, but because their residuals are less strong.
It’s a shame, but that’s the market.
king awful and the market is more competitive might be relevant too.AH33 said:
Why the huge jump?
Things like the Golf GTi and Focus ST still exist at a reasonable price and probably out-perform the fastest hatches of 10 years ago. I think the very top end of the hot hatch market has really moved up a tier; things like the Golf-R and A45 are arguably closer in ethos to the M3 and RS4 of two generations ago than to traditional hot hatches. kambites said:
I'd say that in the eyes of the general car buying public, the Honda "brand" is roughly on a par with VW and far stronger than Ford. Or do you mean Type-R/R/RS sub-brands?
I think Honda does pretty badly as a brand. Most people I know wouldn't consider one because they see it as a car for old people. And being Japanese doesn't really help its cause, does it?AH33 said:
Love it, I'm having one as my next car once they've haemorrhaged their (£32k 
) value.
At £15k, a few years old
Yeah yeah, I get all hot hatches are £30k+ now. Doesnt mean thats good value though, the FN2 was only £17k 8 years ago. The EP3 was £16k 16 years ago. Why the huge jump?
£16K 16 years ago translates to £25K today with inflation. Add in the extra spec, technology and the power jump... ) value.At £15k, a few years old
Yeah yeah, I get all hot hatches are £30k+ now. Doesnt mean thats good value though, the FN2 was only £17k 8 years ago. The EP3 was £16k 16 years ago. Why the huge jump?
2 pages of posts and no one has commented or asked if anyone has driven a Civic Type R?
Thought reviews suggested they were a pretty good steer ? If you are buying a top level fast hatch that has to come high on list of decision making process to choose between this, Golf R , Focus RS or Megane? None of them are lookers in all honesty!
Thought reviews suggested they were a pretty good steer ? If you are buying a top level fast hatch that has to come high on list of decision making process to choose between this, Golf R , Focus RS or Megane? None of them are lookers in all honesty!
vz-r_dave said:
Where are you getting all of the points in your second paragraph from? Not as sharp to drive? Not as fast etc? Have you seen any of the reviews? Maybe you have driven all of the cars so you know first hand? The reviews I have seen contradict your points above so a bit confused.
Ignoring maximum speed, you only have to looks at the stats of the car and it's clear that the Type R isn't in the same league as the RS3, A45 and FRS. The Civic is at best equal to, some of the figures suggest slower than, my Scirocco and that's [my Scirocco] a car released over 6 years ago.And I'm not sure what reviews you've read but almost every review I've read has mentioned that the Megane is more precise as a driving tool than the Civic, including the review on here.
http://www.pistonheads.com/news/road-tests/honda-c...
linked PH article said:
On the basis of this drive the Megane still nabs it though, just. It's perhaps not as full-on or ultimately exciting as the Civic in looks or driving style. But that subtlety and precision about its behaviour on the limit are something to savour and remain a very rare quality in performance cars of any price.
To clarify, I'm a fan of the Civic and I'm not saying it's fundamentally a worse car than any of those I've mentioned. I like the styling (apart from the wheels) and I don't have any desire for a hatch to be AWD so that doesn't bother me. However, the thread asked whether the Type R is a sales flop and that was my analysis of where it falls short against its competition and therefore why it perhaps hasn't sold as well as alternative models.daemon said:
AH33 said:
Love it, I'm having one as my next car once they've haemorrhaged their (£32k ) value.
At £15k, a few years old
Yeah yeah, I get all hot hatches are £30k+ now. Doesnt mean thats good value though, the FN2 was only £17k 8 years ago. The EP3 was £16k 16 years ago. Why the huge jump?
£16K 16 years ago translates to £25K today with inflation. Add in the extra spec, technology and the power jump... ) value.At £15k, a few years old
Yeah yeah, I get all hot hatches are £30k+ now. Doesnt mean thats good value though, the FN2 was only £17k 8 years ago. The EP3 was £16k 16 years ago. Why the huge jump?
kambites said:
Do they really appeal to the same people? I'd have said the Focus and Honda probably have similar target audiences but the Golf is somehow just more... sensible. I'd have thought the Golf's average buyer was 10 years older.
There is a new Civic R in the same street as me and while it always catches my eye I'm thinking 10-15 years ago that would've been me. Aside from the styling I also remember my DC2 and being "Grrr" all the time. So it seems at 39 I've evolved/regressed to "sensible Golf man" 
My future buying it highly likely to follow the same presence as a Golf rather than a Civic R.AH33 said:
Love it, I'm having one as my next car once they've haemorrhaged their (£32k ) value.
At £15k, a few years old
Yeah yeah, I get all hot hatches are £30k+ now. Doesnt mean thats good value though, the FN2 was only £17k 8 years ago. The EP3 was £16k 16 years ago. Why the huge jump?
Due to inflation that £16,000 is now equivalent in purchasing power to around £25,000. ) value.At £15k, a few years old
Yeah yeah, I get all hot hatches are £30k+ now. Doesnt mean thats good value though, the FN2 was only £17k 8 years ago. The EP3 was £16k 16 years ago. Why the huge jump?
For what it's worth I have driven one and really liked it - the dealer was very accommodating with the test drive too
. The figures didn't stack up just after launch though, although the deals do seem to be a bit better now. I may give it another six months and revisit, got an expensive summer with traveling and the final bits of house work to do before I go and splurge some cash on a new car.
I think they look good tbh - lairy for sure, but I like that more than a boring arsed Golf R or S3, yawn.
I'll take mine in grey, the championship white doesn't do it any favours at all.
Edited by Axionknight on Thursday 21st April 09:04
I really like them. I work next to the Honda UK HQ and seen a couple around, and compared to the rest of range its a breath of fresh air. I like the fact as well that Honda made the typeR really stand out from the normal models.
VW/Ford/SEAT with their quick models, unless you knew the badges you couldn't tell the cars apart from a 4 pot diesel.
VW/Ford/SEAT with their quick models, unless you knew the badges you couldn't tell the cars apart from a 4 pot diesel.
AH33 said:
Love it, I'm having one as my next car once they've haemorrhaged their (£32k ) value.
At £15k, a few years old
Yeah yeah, I get all hot hatches are £30k+ now. Doesnt mean thats good value though, the FN2 was only £17k 8 years ago. The EP3 was £16k 16 years ago. Why the huge jump?
Bonkers, isn't it. ) value.At £15k, a few years old
Yeah yeah, I get all hot hatches are £30k+ now. Doesnt mean thats good value though, the FN2 was only £17k 8 years ago. The EP3 was £16k 16 years ago. Why the huge jump?
Hot hatch prices being anywhere near £30k is madness.
I must admit that I do like the look of the new Type R. Things like the Golf R (which seems to have a very fat front and tiny bum) do nothing for me.
Jimmy Recard said:
kambites said:
I'd say that in the eyes of the general car buying public, the Honda "brand" is roughly on a par with VW and far stronger than Ford. Or do you mean Type-R/R/RS sub-brands?
I think Honda does pretty badly as a brand. Most people I know wouldn't consider one because they see it as a car for old people. And being Japanese doesn't really help its cause, does it?Anyway, the point is that neither brand is, in itself, going to appeal to many people under the age of 40. The sporty sub-brands are obviously more youth focussed but I think "Type-R" and "Golf GTi" (R is too new to have much of an image I think) are pretty similar in that regard; if anything Type-R is the more "youthful" brand.
Edited by kambites on Thursday 21st April 09:09
I just don't like the shape I've nothing against an aggressive body kit the last focus RS looked great to me.
The new type r looks like a kids just inherited his mums old Prius and stuck a body kit on it to make it look more sporty.
I'm disappointed with Honda it's a brand I really like and a crx was my first performance car. They need that 23 yr old designer who designed the s660 to design the rest of the range.
The new type r looks like a kids just inherited his mums old Prius and stuck a body kit on it to make it look more sporty.
I'm disappointed with Honda it's a brand I really like and a crx was my first performance car. They need that 23 yr old designer who designed the s660 to design the rest of the range.
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