The new type r - is it a sales flop?
Discussion
I've not seen one out on the roads around here. I'm not counting the one my mate has as he's the DP at one of the Honda garages and it's his company car. He tells me they've not sold many but have loads of people like me (30/40 somethings who had a previous generation type R and now do have the money for a £30k hatch) coming in to have a poke round one.
I really wanted it to be great but it just looks so naff up close. Someone here summed it up perfectly by saying the concept was such a cohesive design yet the reality just looks like a regular civic with an aftermarket body kit based on the concept. It's just so plastic, overdone and flimsy.
I can't comment on how it drives, it's certainly fast to be in but i've never had a shot behind the wheel. What I will say is that I couldn't tolerate in a daily car. It seems to communicate every single ripple and bump in the road, which may be a very good thing to some. I need a happy medium at my age.
The Auto Express track battle against the Cupra 280 and the RS Megane is quite an interesting watch. It's clear how quick and capable the Honda is. It's also clear how stiff it is by watching Sutcliffe jiggle about. DOn't know why the Cupra isn't more popular. Seems to more than hold it's own against these cars while also offering all the gadgets you could ever need. Maybe it's just too far in the other direction and just a little too boring looking?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlGCZiFyqVw
I really wanted it to be great but it just looks so naff up close. Someone here summed it up perfectly by saying the concept was such a cohesive design yet the reality just looks like a regular civic with an aftermarket body kit based on the concept. It's just so plastic, overdone and flimsy.
I can't comment on how it drives, it's certainly fast to be in but i've never had a shot behind the wheel. What I will say is that I couldn't tolerate in a daily car. It seems to communicate every single ripple and bump in the road, which may be a very good thing to some. I need a happy medium at my age.
The Auto Express track battle against the Cupra 280 and the RS Megane is quite an interesting watch. It's clear how quick and capable the Honda is. It's also clear how stiff it is by watching Sutcliffe jiggle about. DOn't know why the Cupra isn't more popular. Seems to more than hold it's own against these cars while also offering all the gadgets you could ever need. Maybe it's just too far in the other direction and just a little too boring looking?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlGCZiFyqVw
kambites said:
Maybe it's a regional thing? To non-car people I know, VW and Honda both seem to signify something along the lines of: "safe, reliable, well-built and dull". I suppose there is still a separate value attached to "German build quality" despite the fact that the Japanese have been producing more reliable cars than the Germans for decades.
Anyway, the point is that neither brand is, in itself, going to appeal to many people under the age of 40. The sporty sub-brands are obviously more youth focussed but I think "Type-R" and "Golf GTi" (R is too new to have much of an image I think) are pretty similar in that regard; if anything Type-R is the more "youthful" brand.
It could well be a regional thing. I'd say that here VW group brands are the thing to have for anyone in their 20s. I know not one person who has a Honda. The only Honda driver I've EVER met is an old neighbour, and she'd be at least 90 now (if she's still alive)Anyway, the point is that neither brand is, in itself, going to appeal to many people under the age of 40. The sporty sub-brands are obviously more youth focussed but I think "Type-R" and "Golf GTi" (R is too new to have much of an image I think) are pretty similar in that regard; if anything Type-R is the more "youthful" brand.
Edited by kambites on Thursday 21st April 09:09
I think Hondas are probably good cars but very, very unappealing
I'm yet to see one on the roads, I don't do mega mileage compared to some but I'm still doing 500-600 miles a month and not a CTR in sight yet.
I've no doubt they're a quick hot hatch but it's a car for the 'youth'. I'm 33 and I'm not sure I would feel comfortable driving one round at my age. If I was 23 then I'd love it but then not many people in their early 20s would have the ability to buy a £30k car. I can see why the Golf R is popular as it is grown up looking and will appeal to people of all ages.
The irony probably is that this Type-R is the best to drive since the bread van models just a shame the looks probably put a lot of potential customers off.
I've no doubt they're a quick hot hatch but it's a car for the 'youth'. I'm 33 and I'm not sure I would feel comfortable driving one round at my age. If I was 23 then I'd love it but then not many people in their early 20s would have the ability to buy a £30k car. I can see why the Golf R is popular as it is grown up looking and will appeal to people of all ages.
The irony probably is that this Type-R is the best to drive since the bread van models just a shame the looks probably put a lot of potential customers off.
I haven't seen one out on the road yet...but looking at the photos of it though I am grateful! 
I was pretty impressed when I first read that they were going to give a Type R some serious shove because for me the older models never really delivered the numbers performance wise, but the styling of the new one would put quite a few off buying it I would have thought.
If I was in the market for this type of car the Focus RS would get my vote, I admire the Golf R but not keen on its boring straight laced image.
I was pretty impressed when I first read that they were going to give a Type R some serious shove because for me the older models never really delivered the numbers performance wise, but the styling of the new one would put quite a few off buying it I would have thought.
If I was in the market for this type of car the Focus RS would get my vote, I admire the Golf R but not keen on its boring straight laced image.
nickfrog said:
andrewparker said:
jamieduff1981 said:
kambites said:
EnglishTony said:
How are Golf R sales bearing up now the Focus RS is within sight of being delivered?
Do they really appeal to the same people? I'd have said the Focus and Honda probably have similar target audiences but the Golf is somehow just more... sensible. I'd have thought the Golf's average buyer was 10 years older. jamieduff1981 said:
nickfrog said:
andrewparker said:
jamieduff1981 said:
kambites said:
EnglishTony said:
How are Golf R sales bearing up now the Focus RS is within sight of being delivered?
Do they really appeal to the same people? I'd have said the Focus and Honda probably have similar target audiences but the Golf is somehow just more... sensible. I'd have thought the Golf's average buyer was 10 years older. 
It never ceases to amaze me how every thread regarding any car always ends up in argument about how good the Golf R is.
I have seen 2 on the road now, one red and one white. Seen plenty more at shows though.
I think it is nail -> head when people say those who want it can't afford it, but those who can afford it don't want it.
Can't honestly recall seeing any Golf Rs around these parts though, blend in far to much
I think it is nail -> head when people say those who want it can't afford it, but those who can afford it don't want it.
Can't honestly recall seeing any Golf Rs around these parts though, blend in far to much
They're expensive (they all are, not just the Honda), making it a big upgrade for fans of older hot Hondas, and there is nothing particularly distinctive about the drivetrain. The old engines may have divided opinion, but those who liked them really liked them, and you couldn't get much else similar. Now you can get a generic blown four pot from whoever you want. And the styling is a bit lairy for mild mannered accountant types. I've seen a few, perhaps as many as I've seen Golf Rs, but then the Golf is quite easy to miss because it mostly looks like a diesel. I live near Swindon where Hondas are common.
MrBarry123 said:
jamieduff1981 said:
nickfrog said:
andrewparker said:
jamieduff1981 said:
kambites said:
EnglishTony said:
How are Golf R sales bearing up now the Focus RS is within sight of being delivered?
Do they really appeal to the same people? I'd have said the Focus and Honda probably have similar target audiences but the Golf is somehow just more... sensible. I'd have thought the Golf's average buyer was 10 years older. It never ceases to amaze me how every thread regarding any car always ends up in argument about how good the Golf R is.
Seen just two on the road here in Essex (ironically?) Look better moving than stationary!
Not driven one but the two main problems by all accounts are the wheels/arch gaps and the crashy ride. Both can be sorted by upgrading to a decent aftermarket suspension setup. I think the car would look 100% better lowered by 30mm - most cars look better but I think this thing would be transformed. Add a decent exhaust and remap and you have real potential. I'll take mine at £15k+ in 3 years please.
Not driven one but the two main problems by all accounts are the wheels/arch gaps and the crashy ride. Both can be sorted by upgrading to a decent aftermarket suspension setup. I think the car would look 100% better lowered by 30mm - most cars look better but I think this thing would be transformed. Add a decent exhaust and remap and you have real potential. I'll take mine at £15k+ in 3 years please.
MrBarry123 said:
vz-r_dave said:
Where are you getting all of the points in your second paragraph from? Not as sharp to drive? Not as fast etc? Have you seen any of the reviews? Maybe you have driven all of the cars so you know first hand? The reviews I have seen contradict your points above so a bit confused.
Ignoring maximum speed, you only have to looks at the stats of the car and it's clear that the Type R isn't in the same league as the RS3, A45 and FRS. The Civic is at best equal to, some of the figures suggest slower than, my Scirocco and that's [my Scirocco] a car released over 6 years ago.And I'm not sure what reviews you've read but almost every review I've read has mentioned that the Megane is more precise as a driving tool than the Civic, including the review on here.
http://www.pistonheads.com/news/road-tests/honda-c...
linked PH article said:
On the basis of this drive the Megane still nabs it though, just. It's perhaps not as full-on or ultimately exciting as the Civic in looks or driving style. But that subtlety and precision about its behaviour on the limit are something to savour and remain a very rare quality in performance cars of any price.
To clarify, I'm a fan of the Civic and I'm not saying it's fundamentally a worse car than any of those I've mentioned. I like the styling (apart from the wheels) and I don't have any desire for a hatch to be AWD so that doesn't bother me. However, the thread asked whether the Type R is a sales flop and that was my analysis of where it falls short against its competition and therefore why it perhaps hasn't sold as well as alternative models.Saying is it "at best equal to, some of the figures suggest slower than, my Scirocco and that's [my Scirocco] a car released over 6 years ago" is complete and utter rubbish.
Scirocco R 0-100mph = 13.7 seconds (Book figure)
FK2 Type R 0-100mph = 12.4 seconds (Book figure)
FK2 Type R 0-100mph - 11.3 seconds (Top Gear Test)
That's a world of difference. Drive one, they are far quicker than a Scirocco R.
MrBarry123 said:
Where are you getting all of the points in your second paragraph from? Not as sharp to drive? Not as fast etc? Have you seen any of the reviews? Maybe you have driven all of the cars so you know first hand? The reviews I have seen contradict your points above so a bit confused.
Ignoring maximum speed, you only have to looks at the stats of the car and it's clear that the Type R isn't in the same league as the RS3, A45 and FRS. The Civic is at best equal to, some of the figures suggest slower than, my Scirocco and that's [my Scirocco] a car released over 6 years ago.
Wouldn't the Civic decimate the Scirocco R around a track? Ignoring maximum speed, you only have to looks at the stats of the car and it's clear that the Type R isn't in the same league as the RS3, A45 and FRS. The Civic is at best equal to, some of the figures suggest slower than, my Scirocco and that's [my Scirocco] a car released over 6 years ago.
I'd put money on it being noticeably quicker in gear too.neil1jnr said:
MrBarry123 said:
Where are you getting all of the points in your second paragraph from? Not as sharp to drive? Not as fast etc? Have you seen any of the reviews? Maybe you have driven all of the cars so you know first hand? The reviews I have seen contradict your points above so a bit confused.
Ignoring maximum speed, you only have to looks at the stats of the car and it's clear that the Type R isn't in the same league as the RS3, A45 and FRS. The Civic is at best equal to, some of the figures suggest slower than, my Scirocco and that's [my Scirocco] a car released over 6 years ago.
Wouldn't the Civic decimate the Scirocco R around a track? Ignoring maximum speed, you only have to looks at the stats of the car and it's clear that the Type R isn't in the same league as the RS3, A45 and FRS. The Civic is at best equal to, some of the figures suggest slower than, my Scirocco and that's [my Scirocco] a car released over 6 years ago.
I'd put money on it being noticeably quicker in gear too.Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff