TFSI oil consumption fault - affected models?

[Vaud]

Guvernator said:

Oh, that's alight then. :thumpup:

Is it just me that gets the feeling that we are past "peak" reliability now. I reckon late 90's to the early millennium might have been the sweet spot. Lots of new cars seem to have all sorts of issues that we never had previously. What's to blame? Cost cutting to the last penny? Too complicated?

What's worse, the German's seem to be the worst offenders now.

Engine complexity for one. Just look at a modern diesel engine.

[PanzerCommander]

Sounds excessive to me, I think my 90,000 mile Mustang uses around 250ml of oil every 5,000 miles and more than half of that ends up in the crank breather catch can.

So much for German engineering quality; or maybe that doesn't apply to cars.

[kambites]

That depends on whether you view it as a fault I suppose. The TFSI's consumption is certainly on the high side but for it to be "excessive" it needs to cause or be indicative of some sort of problem.

Modern direct injected turbocharged engines do seem to inherently use more oil than older designs. Not universally and not very consistently even within a particular engine design, but on average.


I think personally I'd define "too much" oil consumption as "so much that you need to top up between scheduled services". A large number of TFSI engines certainly cross the boundary for high-mileage users.

[ALT F4]

Was the problem confined to the 2.0 TFSI engines or was the 3.2 FSI engine also affected?

[Janesy B]

If I owned if from new, and kept it topped up it wouldn't be a big deal.

For used cars - Seeing as most retards can't even clear their windows on a frosty morning or make sure their tyres have enough air, can you really trust that a used car that used oil has been kept between min/max it's whole life without dropping below that?

That's why I am totally put off anything TSFI from this period.

[Howard-]

Prizam said:

Is it just me who thinks this is unacceptable then?

Not just you. It's just crap quality control and customer service. It's perfectly possible to build a reliable and powerful engine that doesn't need constant attention.


My Mondeo's 2.0 turbo direct injection engine uses not a drop of oil between services.

My old 1990 MX5 didn't use a drop either, and that was supercharged and under a lot more stress.

My ST220 used to use a tiny wee bit but I think it leaked it rather than burnt it

[ALT F4]

I guess the important question so I can answer back is - on model years PRIOR to 2008, the oil consumption was NOT a known problem affecting engines of those years?

Reading around I can pick up one or two statements that seem to say only 2008-2012 model years were affected. Would any of you guys know if this can be taken as 'fact'?

[graham22]

Didn't they change from cam-belt to cam-chain and about that time, the later models suffered from bore wear?

Early ones burn't a little oil when new & settled down. I ran a 2005 A3 2.0TFSI from 58k to 80k and it used very little oil, if any between (non-long life) services.

[blade7]

Guvernator said:

Oh, that's alight then.

Is it just me that gets the feeling that we are past "peak" reliability now. I reckon late 90's to the early millennium might have been the sweet spot. Lots of new cars seem to have all sorts of issues that we never had previously. What's to blame? Cost cutting to the last penny? Too complicated?

My 91 2.6 V6 80 Avant engine was quiet and running great when I sold the car with around 140k on it.

[Guvernator]

kambites said:

That depends on whether you view it as a fault I suppose. The TFSI's consumption is certainly on the high side but for it to be "excessive" it needs to cause or be indicative of some sort of problem.

Modern direct injected turbocharged engines do seem to inherently use more oil than older designs. Not universally and not very consistently even within a particular engine design, but on average.


I think personally I'd define "too much" oil consumption as "so much that you need to top up between scheduled services". A large number of TFSI engines certainly cross the boundary for high-mileage users.

Yep agree, my 335i liked to drink a drop too which according to forums also isn't uncommon and I've heard lots of other people with various makes of DI turbo engines say the same thing. Seems to be a "thing" with a lot of modern engines now, except no one has told the punters to expect more oil usage so you get the situation as Janesy B mentioned where people will just ignore it.

[ALT F4]

ALT F4 said:

Was the problem confined to the 2.0 TFSI engines or was the 3.2 FSI engine also affected?

Anybody know?

Just trying to get a definitive list of models and years affected.


So far years affected seem to be 2008 to 2012 <-stand to be corrected.
So far engines affected seem to be 1.8 & 2.0 TFSI <- stand to be corrected. (3.2 FSI non-turbo affected yes/no?)

[kambites]

Guvernator said:

people will just ignore it.

I think this happened with our Skoda. There's occasionally a distinct low-frequency knocking as the revs fall back to idle which I suspect is bottom-end damage from it having been run on low oil at some point before we bought it. We've done 25k miles in it now and fortunately it doesn't seem to be getting any worse.

If you know to expect it it's obviously not a problem but I'd be slightly wary of buying a high mileage second-hand TFSI engine again.

[RobGT81]

I top my Scirocco 2.0 FSI 2009 up a few times between services. Don't really see an issue. It's done 125k and going strong.

[k-ink]

When VW says "a small number" I think they actually mean "every car we have sold for years". Crap engineering from VAG yet again.

[Guvernator]

ALT F4 said:

Anybody know?

Just trying to get a definitive list of models and years affected.


So far years affected seem to be 2008 to 2012 <-stand to be corrected.
So far engines affected seem to be 1.8 & 2.0 TFSI <- stand to be corrected. (3.2 FSI non-turbo affected yes/no?)

The 3 litre supercharged engine found in S4's and some S5's is also effected as well as the older 3.2 non turbo. . Probably not as prevalent as the smaller engines but it's definitely still there. Enough for there to be an official Audi technical service bulletin (TSB) for it at any rate.

The official line is that anything up to 500ml every 1000 miles is "within tolerance" which seems excessively high to me but they put it in their to try to cover their ar*e. If you persist they will run an oil consumption test detailed in my post above. If they deem this to have failed or your are adamant enough they will then go on to try stage one of the TSB which is to replace the breather valve, crankshaft seal and update the software. If this fixes it as it did for mine then it's all good. If it doesn't work then you are on to TSB stage 2 which is opening up the engine and replacing pistons, piston rings etc.

None of this is well advertised, I guess they are hoping people will just give up which might save them money in the short term but will have a long term impact on the perception of Audi reliability. I guess some accountants crunched the numbers and decided ignoring it would be cheaper. Watchdog even did a piece on it a while back so there may be useful information on their website too.

Edited by Guvernator on Friday 29th April 09:42

[kambites]

k-ink said:

When VW says "a small number" I think they actually mean "every car we have sold for years". Crap engineering from VAG yet again.

VW basically say "a small number exceed the tolerances we've defined", which is true because they've set the tolerances to make sure that only a few engines exceed them.

Very few TFSIs exceed the 500ml/1000km that VW say constitutes a "fault".

[Guvernator]

kambites said:

VW basically say "a small number exceed the tolerances we've defined", which is true because they've set the tolerances to make sure that only a few engines exceed them.

Very few TFSIs exceed the 500ml/1000km that VW say constitutes a "fault".

^^^^ This. Does anyone else not think that tolerance limit is absurdly high? Who in their right mind besides rotary engine owners would think that kind of oil consumption was in anyway normal or acceptable.

What's worse is that it's not advertised. How many people buying a new Audi would have second thoughts if the salesmen said "oh by the way, you'll need to top the car up with oil every month".

[kambites]

Guvernator said:

^^^^ This. Does anyone else not think that tolerance limit is absurdly high? Who in their right mind besides rotary engine owners would think that kind of oil consumption was in anyway normal or acceptable.

As I said above, I personally think it becomes unacceptable when the oil has to be topped up between services - that either means the service schedule is too sparse of the oil consumption is too high. Max to min on a 2.0 TFSI is about 1 litre, so with VW's stated tolerances, their service interval should be no more than 2000km.

[ALT F4]

Guvernator said:

The 3 litre supercharged engine found in S4's and some S5's is also effected as well as the older 3.2 non turbo.

Thanks for that Guv.

Would you also happen to know the affected years?
Is the problem confined to the B8 cam-chain engines? Or are you aware of the problem affecting the B7 cam-belt engines?

[Guvernator]

ALT F4 said:

Thanks for that Guv.

Would you also happen to know the affected years?
Is the problem confined to the B8 cam-chain engines? Or are you aware of the problem affecting the B7 cam-belt engines?

I'm pretty sure it's B8 on only so 2007/8 to 2012 but don't quote me on that. If you check some of the American Audi forums, there is a wealth of information as the problem seems more prevalent over there or more likely Americans just shout louder when they have issues rather than quietly taking it like we do over here.

Just do a search for Audi oil consumption on sites like audiworld.com and a5oc.com and you'll come up with lots of info, it's where I first found out about the official TSB fix too.