TFSI oil consumption fault - affected models?

TFSI oil consumption fault - affected models?

Author
Discussion

kambites

67,460 posts

220 months

Tuesday 21st February 2017
quotequote all
Motorrad said:
Sounds like VWs are as bad as BMW.
One could argue that some degree oil consumption is a fundamental part of the PCV systems used for emissions control on modern direct injected engines - pulling air from the sump up to the intake manifold, it's probably inevitable that a bit of oil gets drawn up as well.

Many of the examples on here are well beyond what one would expect if that system is functioning properly, though.

RumbleOfThunder

3,546 posts

202 months

Tuesday 21st February 2017
quotequote all
Motorrad said:
Sounds like VWs are as bad as BMW.

All the petrol BMWs I've owned used around 1ltr/1K miles which I thought was fking awful but my local friendly dealer assured me was no problem at all. I guess it isn't as long as you don't have to pay for it or keep an eye on it!
If that's the case it's utterly useless as an everyday vehicle and not fit for purpose. eek

Guvernator

13,104 posts

164 months

Tuesday 21st February 2017
quotequote all
kambites said:
One could argue that some degree oil consumption is a fundamental part of the PCV systems used for emissions control on modern direct injected engines - pulling air from the sump up to the intake manifold, it's probably inevitable that a bit of oil gets drawn up as well.
Yep "They all do that sir". It seems to be an ailment of a lot of modern DI engines but some knowledgeable people I've spoken to have stated it's all in the name of improving mpg and emissions. Apparently modern engines also run a bit hotter too for the same reasons which also effects oil consumption .

The problem is in terms of PR, they can't really tell everyone your brand new car is going to drink oil like it's a car from the 1960's so they try to deny the problem exists by hiding behind absurd tolerance levels.

RumbleOfThunder

3,546 posts

202 months

Tuesday 21st February 2017
quotequote all
Guvernator said:
kambites said:
One could argue that some degree oil consumption is a fundamental part of the PCV systems used for emissions control on modern direct injected engines - pulling air from the sump up to the intake manifold, it's probably inevitable that a bit of oil gets drawn up as well.
Yep "They all do that sir". It seems to be an ailment of a lot of modern DI engines but some knowledgeable people I've spoken to have stated it's all in the name of improving mpg and emissions. Apparently modern engines also run a bit hotter too for the same reasons which also effects oil consumption .

The problem is in terms of PR, they can't really tell everyone your brand new car is going to drink oil like it's a car from the 1960's so they try to deny the problem exists by hiding behind absurd tolerance levels.
It's an especially hard sell when competitors engines achieve the same figures without drinking a drop.

kambites

67,460 posts

220 months

Tuesday 21st February 2017
quotequote all
RumbleOfThunder said:
... competitors engines achieve the same figures without drinking a drop.
Do they? Are there actually any recent direct injection engines which use no oil?

jatinder

1,667 posts

212 months

Tuesday 21st February 2017
quotequote all
Motorrad said:
Sounds like VWs are as bad as BMW.

All the petrol BMWs I've owned used around 1ltr/1K miles which I thought was fking awful but my local friendly dealer assured me was no problem at all. I guess it isn't as long as you don't have to pay for it or keep an eye on it!

My MKV Golf 2005 GTi used 1/2 ltr in the 10K miles I drove it just to keep on topic.
Depends really on each individual car and how it was looked after. My M3 doesn't use any oil. even after a trackday? Neither did my vx220 turbo?

loose cannon

6,028 posts

240 months

Tuesday 21st February 2017
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Imagine owning a heavily oil drinking BMW with no dipstick to check the oil from cold unstarted vomit
I barely tolerate my touring heap for it's ridiculous oil consumption, never owned a car that drinks oil like it, tell a lie I owned an Orion ghia with a cvh engine but even that wasn't quite so bad, surely people must no by now it's a bit st for a premium product, still if it's leased and you don't own it and it goes back before the warranty who cares right yuck

Glasgowrob

3,232 posts

120 months

Tuesday 21st February 2017
quotequote all
appalling quality.

my old Mondeo taxi was on 320k miles and didn't use a drop between services, despite being driven hard. new Mondeo is exactly the same so far on 63k and doesn't se a drop

hornetrider

63,161 posts

204 months

Tuesday 21st February 2017
quotequote all
Motorrad said:
All the petrol BMWs I've owned used around 1ltr/1K miles...
My experience:

550i no top up required between services.
2 x 728i both liked a drop to varying degrees. One a litre every 5k? The other one about every 2k.
530i E39 needed a top up between services but nothing more.

Conclusion: Buy a V8.

RumbleOfThunder

3,546 posts

202 months

Tuesday 21st February 2017
quotequote all
kambites said:
RumbleOfThunder said:
... competitors engines achieve the same figures without drinking a drop.
Do they? Are there actually any recent direct injection engines which use no oil?
Well my ST hasn't needed any in 3 years between services smile. Anecdotal evidence aside, are you aware of the competition with an oil thirst so ubiquitous? I'm not. VAG clearly have enough of a problem to concede it publicly, warrant an investigation by the BBC, and go through a class action lawsuit in California.

kambites

67,460 posts

220 months

Tuesday 21st February 2017
quotequote all
RumbleOfThunder said:
Well my ST hasn't needed any in 3 years between services smile. Anecdotal evidence aside, are you aware of the competition with an oil thirst so ubiquitous? I'm not. VAG clearly have enough of a problem to concede it publicly, warrant an investigation by the BBC, and go through a class action lawsuit in California.
There's certainly a lot of complaints about the oil usage of modern BMW engines. Given the smaller numbers involved, I'd say probably a similar proportion of owners complaining about it.

RumbleOfThunder

3,546 posts

202 months

Tuesday 21st February 2017
quotequote all
kambites said:
RumbleOfThunder said:
Well my ST hasn't needed any in 3 years between services smile. Anecdotal evidence aside, are you aware of the competition with an oil thirst so ubiquitous? I'm not. VAG clearly have enough of a problem to concede it publicly, warrant an investigation by the BBC, and go through a class action lawsuit in California.
There's certainly a lot of complaints about the oil usage of modern BMW engines. Given the smaller numbers involved, I'd say probably a similar proportion of owners complaining about it.
Ok we'll just take your similar numbers guesstimation then laugh. Even if BMW are just as bad, that doesn't absolve VAG of any responsibility. It's either a fundamentally stty design, or it's stty quality control. Others manufacturers prove it needn't be an issue anymore.

Motorrad

6,811 posts

186 months

Tuesday 21st February 2017
quotequote all
hornetrider said:
My experience:

550i no top up required between services.
2 x 728i both liked a drop to varying degrees. One a litre every 5k? The other one about every 2k.
530i E39 needed a top up between services but nothing more.

Conclusion: Buy a V8.
Mine were all petrol 6s, the only BMW diesel I owned didn't use a drop. The single M car I came close to buying was an early E39 which the owner advised me used a similar amount to the 6s. Later BMWs weren't meant to be nearly as bad.

kambites

67,460 posts

220 months

Tuesday 21st February 2017
quotequote all
RumbleOfThunder said:
Even if BMW are just as bad, that doesn't absolve VAG of any responsibility.
I wasn't trying to claim that it was, I was just pointing out that it seems to be an increasing trend amongst modern engines, specially DI ones with PCV.

Obviously whether it's a problem comes down to personal preference. For me, it isn't (within reason); having to open the bonnet every three months to top up the oil in our Skoda ranks slightly below having to check the tyre pressures in terms of annoyance. For someone who's afraid of a dip-stick, I can see why it would be an issue.

qska

449 posts

128 months

Tuesday 21st February 2017
quotequote all
WTF are you guys serious?

Topping up oil every 2 tankfuls?

That's just ludicrous.

None of my 17 cars had this "feature".

That's put me off a BMW and Aldi for good.

The only car that I had that needed any attention around oil level was the Mazda 6, but it suffered from the opposite problem.

Long live Mondeo!

qska

449 posts

128 months

Tuesday 21st February 2017
quotequote all
Just to add: all car reviewers are st. Nobody ever talks about it, it's ridiculous.

All they care about are soft plastics and touchscreens it seems.

kambites

67,460 posts

220 months

Tuesday 21st February 2017
quotequote all
qska said:
Just to add: all car reviewers are st. Nobody ever talks about it, it's ridiculous.
Most journalists who review a car will cover maybe 200 miles in it, they can't realistically comment on that sort of thing.

StevenB

777 posts

196 months

Tuesday 21st February 2017
quotequote all
Back in the 80's Audi stated in the handbook that a litre of oil per 620 miles was normal (1,000km)

kambites

67,460 posts

220 months

Tuesday 21st February 2017
quotequote all
StevenB said:
Back in the 80's Audi stated in the handbook that a litre of oil per 620 miles was normal (1,000km)
The problem these days is that people increasingly treat cars like white goods - they expect to be able to take the car to a dealer once a year and do absolutely nothing else to it, even the idea of checking tyre pressures or topping up washer fluid is alien to most drivers.

In the hands of someone who's likely to just carry on driving if the oil pressure light comes on, needing to top up the oil every three months becomes significantly more of a concern.

qska

449 posts

128 months

Tuesday 21st February 2017
quotequote all
kambites said:
Most journalists who review a car will cover maybe 200 miles in it, they can't realistically comment on that sort of thing.
I meant these guys doing long term reviews over many months, it never seems to crop up.

Oh well, if I got a free car... I would write something nice about it.