Shall we have a PH Top 100 - Best 4wd performance cars

[Leins]

I believe Alpina also produced a very small number of E30 C2 2.7 Allrads, but I'm unsure if any were Tourings

[xRIEx]

The list so far, as far as I can gather (I was bored, OK?). Apologies if any of the models are wrong, I was making a guess from some of the pictures with no description, added approximately in the order they were posted.

Dare we argue over the exact order?

1 Jensen FF
2 Ford Escort Cosworth
3 Volvo V70R
4 Porsche 959
5 Ford RS200
6 Mitsubishi Evo VI
7 Nissan GT-R
8 Ferrari FF
9 Audi RS4 (2.7TT)
10 Lancia Delta Integrale
11 Nissan Skyline GT-R R34
12 Audi RS6 (V10)
13 Audi RS2
14 VW Golf R (Mk7)
15 Porsche 911 Turbo S (997)
16 Subaru Forester Sti
17 Lamborghini Gallardo
18 Range Rover SVR
19 Nissan Skyline GT-R R33 400R
20 Mitsubishi Evo VIII
21 Toyota Celica GT4
22 Subaru Impreza 22b
23 Peugeot 205 T16
24 Nissan Skyline GT-R R32
25 Audi Quattro
26 Porsche 911 Turbo (993)
27 Subaru Impreza WRX (early shape, not sure of exact model)
28 Subaru Impreza S202
29 Subaru Impreza Cosworth STI CS400
30 Mitsubishi Evo X FQ440MR
31 Ford Focus RS
32 Saab 9-3 TurboX
33 Jeep SRT8
34 Ford Sierra Sapphire Cosworth
35 Bugatti Veyron
36 Audi R8
37 BMW 335d Xdrive
38 Lancia Delta S4
39 Nissan Pulsar GTiR
40 Subaru Impreza P1
41 MG Metro 6R4
42 Audi TT RS
43 Audi 100 quattro
44 Audi Coupe
45 Mitsubishi 3000GT/GTO
46 Bugatti Chiron
47 Mercedes A45 AMG
48 Audi RS4 (V8)
49 Mercedes C63 AMG 4Matic
50 Mitsubishi Evo IV
51 Mitsubishi Evo VII
52 VW Golf R32
53 Audi S4 (V8)
54 Mazda 6 MPS
55 VW Golf G60 Limited
56 Skoda Superb
57 Twini Mini
58 Porsche 911 Turbo S (996)
59 Mercedes G Wagen
60 Bentley Continental GT
61 Audi S8
62 Panther Solo
63 Porsche 911 Carrera 4
64 Alpina B10 Allrad (E34)
65 VW Type 183/Iltis
66 Jaguar F-Type AWD
67 Lamborghini Huracan
68 Mitsubishi Evo II
69 Porsche 918
70 Subaru Legacy
71 Ford Raptor
72 Dodge Ram Runner
73 Mercedes E63 AMG 4Matic
74 Volvo S60R
75 Lamborghini Diablo
76 BMW i8
77 Mitsubishi Evo IX
78 Subaru Impreza Turbo 2000

[rallycross]

It gets very complicated with the EVO's and Subaru's as some of them are incredible and some are fairly average there are so many models and huge differences in how they drive

For example

An Evo 6 RS is an incredible thing. A 6 GSR or TME is nothing like as good.
An Evo 9 Gt is the best 9 (like an RS) but a 9 MR-360 is also good
Impreza S202, Spec C, Type 25, 22B all worthy of a high placing but are super rare special editions.

[EnglishTony]

Some more to make up the numbers.

Mercedes-Benz 190 Evo.
Alfa Romeo 33 Sportwagen Q4
BMW X6M
Audi 90 Quattro
Jaguar X Type

[Leins]

EnglishTony said:

Some more to make up the numbers.

Mercedes-Benz 190 Evo.
Alfa Romeo 33 Sportwagen Q4
BMW X6M
Audi 90 Quattro
Jaguar X Type

190 Evo? Don't recall even the more regular 190s having 4Matic, although there were some W124s

[k-ink]

Pioneer said:

Me too! Can't believe I didn't think of it. The 918 has to win, surely?

Well it certainly wins the largest price tag. Although I'd rather have a thousand pony skyline and the change.

[groomi]

If only they'd built it the way they planned to in 1988...

[epom]

xRIEx said:

epom said:

Odd to see the new Focus RS making the list, surely not too many have driven them enough yet to judge ??

I'm guessing not many people on here have driven a 959, RS200, Veyron or 205 T16, either.

Valid point, I haven't driven a 22B either (yet). Just making the point I guess that the RS is so new it might not have done enough to deserve its place, yet.

[anonymous-user]

groomi said:

If only they'd built it the way they planned to in 1988...

Can you imagine it, what a thing it would have been.

[300bhp/ton]

yonex said:

groomi said:

If only they'd built it the way they planned to in 1988...

Can you imagine it, what a thing it would have been.

Slower, heavier, worse handling, slower track times, slower acceleration, lower top speed.

It might have sounded nice. But tbh the competition developed and purpose built V6 was a much better power plant.

Edited by 300bhp/ton on Saturday 30th April 13:21

[SlimJim16v]

As some people are just posting anything with 4wd, I may as well add the Mk1 Capri.

[Zad]

Plenty of other Fords.
Sierra XR4x4 (and Ghia 4x4 estate) and derivatives, TurboTechnics, Minker etc.
Granada Scorpio 2.9i 4x4
Escort RS2000 4x4 (The police used to love these for chasing crims round estates)

[Bibbs]

apparently not a very good car, but would take it over all the Fords listed.

[Stuart70]

Leins said:

EnglishTony said:

Some more to make up the numbers.

Mercedes-Benz 190 Evo.
Alfa Romeo 33 Sportwagen Q4
BMW X6M
Audi 90 Quattro
Jaguar X Type

190 Evo? Don't recall even the more regular 190s having 4Matic, although there were some W124s

Agreed. I don't recall a 190 ever being 4wd. Anyone?

[ess]

Another vote for the Lancia Delta S4.
Allegedly lapped by Henri Toivonen at Estoril in 1986 in a time that would have put him 6th on the grid for the GP that year.
No wonder it was the car which ended Group B, and sadly Henri Toivonen.
s

Edited by ess on Saturday 30th April 07:36

[E24man]

Leins said:

Gad-Westy said:

Love the RS2. In Nogaro, yes please.

Think the E34 M5 Touring may have pre dated it in terms of performance estates but not sure when Audi first started knocking out the 'cooking' S2 Avant.

More relevant to the thread, I like the idea of these:



Alpina B10 3.0 Allrad E34 flavour. Can't be many of those about.

C4 S4 4.2 V8 Avant, albeit built in very limited numbers, I think pre-dates the RS2

The C4 276bhp 4.2 V8 Avant was known as the 'S4 Plus' and also 'S6 Plus' during its run from '92 to '94, pre-dating the 1994 introduced RS2. The M5 Touring was also introduced in 1992.

The E34 B10 AllRad also pre-dates the RS2 by a year with 64 lhd saloons and 70 lhd Tourings, and two solitary rhd saloons made up by Sytner with perhaps both now scrapped. They had a B3 3.0 265bhp engine detuned to 231bhp; it's anybodies guess why it was detuned but I suspect to preserve the life of the 4wd components.

[cptsideways]

How many like me have actually owned a pretty good percentage of these from the list? Me I'm on about 25 out of 100 at least depending on the eventual definitive top 100 list. Though I'm also lucky enough to have driven most of them (almost)

And harking back to the whats wrong with rallying thread, how many of these modern AWD cars have any relation to the cars that cars get raced. Do you see any Hyundai WRC cars in the list...

There is a recurring theme, all the best ones were at some point leading their competitive field for a brief moment on the whole.

[NormalWisdom]

No mention of the VR4?

[k-ink]

300bhp/ton said:

yonex said:

groomi said:

If only they'd built it the way they planned to in 1988...

Can you imagine it, what a thing it would have been.

Slower, heavier, worse handling, slower track times, slower acceleration, lower top speed.

It might have sounded nice. But tbh the completion developed and purpose built V6 was a much better power plant.

Exactly what I was about to reply.

[Zad]

k-ink said:

300bhp/ton said:

yonex said:

groomi said:

If only they'd built it the way they planned to in 1988...

Can you imagine it, what a thing it would have been.

Slower, heavier, worse handling, slower track times, slower acceleration, lower top speed.

It might have sounded nice. But tbh the completion developed and purpose built V6 was a much better power plant.

Exactly what I was about to reply.

All valid points, although I'm sure the active suspension could have made it handle amazingly (albeit expensively, unreliably in that early 90s kinda way) but it was never going to be a B-road monster anyway. I think, had it happened a few years earlier when the economy was still holding up and excess still ruled, the V12 would have spawned quad turbos and quite a lot more power.