Define Hot Hatch

[rich85uk]

MikeTFSI said:

Simple,

Hot hatch is a performance orientated hatchback that is designed to be significantly faster than the standard models in the range. Possibly compromised with respect to ride and subtlety, but designed to be used daily.

A warm hatch is a performance orientated model that is not necessarily fast, but often quicker than an average car.

A hyper hatch is a ridiculously fast model that will keep sports cars and even some supercars honest.

[Blayney]

Truckosaurus said:

daemon said:

So a 135i isnt a hot hatch?

Not a Hot Hatch.

xRIEx said:

Clio V6

Not a Hot Hatch.

xRIEx said:

Escort RS Cosworth

Not a Hot Hatch.

Why not?

[Truckosaurus]

Blayney said:

Why not?

They are all much better than mere hot hatchbacks.

135i is RWD.

Clio V6 is as much a hatchback as the Cayman pictured earlier.

Escort Cosworth is a Rally-Rep similar to contemporary Imprezas, Evos or Integrales (all available in 5dr forms)

[nickfrog]

daemon said:

LaurasOtherHalf said:

seats 4-5 adults
has a hatchback
pokey engine must be transverse
spoilers
front wheel drive or front biased four wheel drive
small or mid size european body

So a 135i isnt a hot hatch?

Indeed, why wouldn't it be ?

Can't see why being RWD and longitudinally engined should prevent it from being one. I don't see how not having a spoiler so that its lines are not spoiled should have anything to do with it.

I find that my M135i is very much a hot hatch, not that I give a shyte .

[macky17]

MikeTFSI said:

Simple,

Hot hatch is a performance orientated hatchback that is designed to be significantly faster than the standard models in the range. Possibly compromised with respect to ride and subtlety, but designed to be used daily.

It's a question of how compromised for me. At what point does the ride/practicality become so poor that it ceases to be a hot hatch and becomes a niche product? The mk2 focus RS for me is too hard to be a daily and so , whilst special, is something else. (Having just had a blast in a mk3 RS I think perhaps it is comfortable enough to qualify).

[Truckosaurus]

I reckon the 4-cyl petrol turbo version of the 1-series (125i?) has more of a claim to be a hot hatch than the 6-cyl versions which seem a little too Grown-Up to be a traditional HH.

(Similarly the 4wd or 6-cyl Golves = R, R32, VR6 etc.)

[Blayney]

Truckosaurus said:

Blayney said:

Why not?

They are all much better than mere hot hatchbacks.

135i is RWD.

Clio V6 is as much a hatchback as the Cayman pictured earlier.

Escort Cosworth is a Rally-Rep similar to contemporary Imprezas, Evos or Integrales (all available in 5dr forms)

I am with you somewhat on the Escort. Clio V6 less so, but it is a bigger departure from the normal Clio than a typical hot hatch. The 135i though I disagree.

Here's why...

[Truckosaurus]

Interesting call on the Chevette. I'd say it, and the Lotus Sunbeam, were the 'rally reps' of their day.

[Blayney]

Truckosaurus said:

Interesting call on the Chevette. I'd say it, and the Lotus Sunbeam, were the 'rally reps' of their day.

Ooh, didn't look at it that way. I put it to you, then... that being a rally-rep does not necessarily exclude a car from also being a hot-hatch.

I shall now go away to try and think of a car that is a rally-rep AND a hot hatch unequivocally...

[Meridius]

The Escort Cosworth, M135i and Clio V6 are all still based on the bland shopping cart hatchbacks though. Therefore, hot hatchbacks.

[SlimJim16v]

I think the problem is with the hatch part of hot-hatch. A hatchback was originally a small, bootless car, so quite short. A modern 'hatchback' is the size of a small house.

Oh, they were light too.

Edited by SlimJim16v on Monday 2nd May 18:41

[Blayney]

Lancia Delta Integrale... both a rally rep and a hot hatch.

http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-news/first-offici...

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/best-ho...

http://www.classiccarchasers.com/#!Ultimate-Hot-Ha...

and 3 sources which list it as the greatest hot hatch ever.

I look forward to the response

[xRIEx]

Truckosaurus said:

They are all much better than mere hot hatchbacks.

I wasn't using any measure of ability as a factor in hot hatches - you can have good hot hatches, you can have bad hot hatches, you can have exceptional hot hatches, same as you can have good saloons, you can have bad saloons, you can have exceptional saloons - a car's fundamental 'goodness' (or lack of) does not render it inadmissable.

Truckosaurus said:

135i is RWD.

Yes, so is the 116d; why can't a hatchback be RWD?

Truckosaurus said:

Clio V6 is as much a hatchback as the Cayman pictured earlier.

As I said, that one's divisive. It's still a hatchback, based on a mass-produced model (albeit heavily revised).

Truckosaurus said:

Escort Cosworth is a Rally-Rep similar to contemporary Imprezas, Evos or Integrales (all available in 5dr forms)

A 1990s 5-door rally rep Impreza?

[bigvanfan]

It's a strange one , I'd wouldn't call a golf r a hot hatch (not sure why) but a gti is

[delboy735]

Peugeot 205 1.9

[HappyMidget]

bigvanfan said:

It's a strange one , I'd wouldn't call a golf r a hot hatch (not sure why) but a gti is

That is because it is a junior supercar, obviously...

[Truckosaurus]

Blayney said:

I look forward to the response

Integrale, not a Hot Hatch.

Delta HF (front wheel drive versions) = Hot Hatch.

[Blayney]

Truckosaurus said:

Blayney said:

I look forward to the response

Integrale, not a Hot Hatch.

Delta HF (front wheel drive versions) = Hot Hatch.

So a hot hatch can't have anything other than FWD?

[Meridius]

The Integrale is definitely a hot hatch, its just hotter than the HF. Same with the Golf R, hot hatchback, just hotter than the GTI.

[nickfrog]

Truckosaurus said:

They are all much better than mere hot hatchbacks.

135i is RWD.

Why would RWD make a car better ?