Define Hot Hatch

[bigvanfan]

xRIEx said:

I know.

And

That's sacrilege to call that a hot hatch

[EnglishTony]

TheJimi said:

EnglishTony said:

I think I am going to have to disagree on the Golf R. Not only does it have 6 cylinders

The 'R is a four banger, dude.

All of them? In any case it's an Ultra Hatch in my estimation.

[EnglishTony]

Seat TDI, no.
Pulsar GTR, Homogolation
Focus ST, yes
Renault 5 mid engine turbo thing, arguably world's 1st Ultra Hatch

[ikarl]

In your first post your ask for people's description of what makes a hot hatch, then pull them apart and come up with your own "rules".... even though I'm sure most disagree with them... I mean, a pulsar gtir not a hot hatch?? Wtf?!

Tiresome.

[xRIEx]

bigvanfan said:

xRIEx said:

I know.

And

That's sacrilege to call that a hot hatch

Why? It's all very well voicing your opinion, but give us some reasons as to how you arrive at it.

[xRIEx]

EnglishTony said:

TheJimi said:

EnglishTony said:

I think I am going to have to disagree on the Golf R. Not only does it have 6 cylinders

The 'R is a four banger, dude.

All of them? In any case it's an Ultra Hatch in my estimation.

Any Golf (AFAIAA) with just an 'R' designation; the R32 was a VR6.

I'm not sure what all this "ultra hatch" is about; is it the same as "hypercar" and "megacar" designations, meaningless hyperbolic labels?

[Patrick Bateman]

'Hyper hatch' is a nonsense term as far as I'm concerned.

[MarshPhantom]

xRIEx said:

MarshPhantom said:

Meridius said:

The Integrale is definitely a hot hatch, its just hotter than the HF. Same with the Golf R, hot hatchback, just hotter than the GTI.

Homologation special. The Golf R is the modern day equivalent of the Audi Quattro rather than the Golf GTI.

Can a car not be a homologation model and a hatchback at the same time?

The Delta has a case, nobody would've called the Quattro a hot hatch though.

[MarshPhantom]

300bhp/ton said:

xRIEx said:

MarshPhantom said:

Meridius said:

The Integrale is definitely a hot hatch, its just hotter than the HF. Same with the Golf R, hot hatchback, just hotter than the GTI.

Homologation special. The Golf R is the modern day equivalent of the Audi Quattro rather than the Golf GTI.

Can a car not be a homologation model and a hatchback at the same time?

Yes. I posted earlier that people will moan with no rational reason this is one of them.

And people who moan about this in general, usually have no clue to the Delta's model line up anyhow.

For instance, there was the Delta HF 4wd, then the Integrale, then the Intregrale 16v and ALL were proper production models.



While on the subject of homologation it's interesting to note that the Clio Williams was also a homologation special, yet nobody ever claims no fair on it being a hot hatch

Unlike most rally specials the Williams was a FWD bog standard Clio 16v power wise.

[xRIEx]

MarshPhantom said:

xRIEx said:

MarshPhantom said:

Meridius said:

The Integrale is definitely a hot hatch, its just hotter than the HF. Same with the Golf R, hot hatchback, just hotter than the GTI.

Homologation special. The Golf R is the modern day equivalent of the Audi Quattro rather than the Golf GTI.

Can a car not be a homologation model and a hatchback at the same time?

The Delta has a case, nobody would've called the Quattro a hot hatch though.

I don't think anyone has Without reading back, you're the only person to mention it.

[MarshPhantom]

300bhp/ton said:

xRIEx said:

MarshPhantom said:

Meridius said:

The Integrale is definitely a hot hatch, its just hotter than the HF. Same with the Golf R, hot hatchback, just hotter than the GTI.

Homologation special. The Golf R is the modern day equivalent of the Audi Quattro rather than the Golf GTI.

Can a car not be a homologation model and a hatchback at the same time?

Yes. I posted earlier that people will moan with no rational reason this is one of them.

And people who moan about this in general, usually have no clue to the Delta's model line up anyhow.

For instance, there was the Delta HF 4wd, then the Integrale, then the Intregrale 16v and ALL were proper production models.



While on the subject of homologation it's interesting to note that the Clio Williams was also a homologation special, yet nobody ever claims no fair on it being a hot hatch

Unlike most rally specials the Williams was a FWD bog standard Clio 16v power wise.

[EnglishTony]

ikarl said:

In your first post your ask for people's description of what makes a hot hatch, then pull them apart and come up with your own "rules".... even though I'm sure most disagree with them... I mean, a pulsar gtir not a hot hatch?? Wtf?!

Tiresome.

So by starting the thread I have forfeited the opportunity to express my opinion? Crickey, that is tiresome.

[300bhp/ton]

MarshPhantom said:

300bhp/ton said:

xRIEx said:

MarshPhantom said:

Meridius said:

The Integrale is definitely a hot hatch, its just hotter than the HF. Same with the Golf R, hot hatchback, just hotter than the GTI.

Homologation special. The Golf R is the modern day equivalent of the Audi Quattro rather than the Golf GTI.

Can a car not be a homologation model and a hatchback at the same time?

Yes. I posted earlier that people will moan with no rational reason this is one of them.

And people who moan about this in general, usually have no clue to the Delta's model line up anyhow.

For instance, there was the Delta HF 4wd, then the Integrale, then the Intregrale 16v and ALL were proper production models.



While on the subject of homologation it's interesting to note that the Clio Williams was also a homologation special, yet nobody ever claims no fair on it being a hot hatch

Unlike most rally specials the Williams was a FWD bog standard Clio 16v power wise.

And the Integrale was a big standard awd Delta... Your point it what exactly??

[kambites]

xRIEx said:

bigvanfan said:

xRIEx said:

I know.

And

That's sacrilege to call that a hot hatch

Why? It's all very well voicing your opinion, but give us some reasons as to how you arrive at it.

I certainly wouldn't call that a hot hatch. For me one requirement for a hot hatch (or indeed a hatchback in general) is two rows of seats, the rear-most of which folds down to create more luggage space.

I wouldn't even call stripped FWD cars with the rear seats removed "not hatches" let alone cars where the engine has been stuck in the middle.

Edited by kambites on Tuesday 3rd May 20:16

[300bhp/ton]

EnglishTony said:

Seat TDI, no.
Pulsar GTR, Homogolation
Focus ST, yes
Renault 5 mid engine turbo thing, arguably world's 1st Ultra Hatch

So why does homoligation mean it isn't a hot hatch? Maybe sports cars aren't sports cars either if they are raced

And if a petrol car with the same power is a hot hatch, then a diesel is too.

[xRIEx]

kambites said:

xRIEx said:

bigvanfan said:

xRIEx said:

I know.

And

That's sacrilege to call that a hot hatch

Why? It's all very well voicing your opinion, but give us some reasons as to how you arrive at it.

I certainly wouldn't call that a hot hatch. For me one requirement for a hot hatch (or indeed a hatchback in general) is two rows of seats, the rear-most of which folds down to create more luggage space.

I wouldn't even call stripped FWD cars with the rear seats removed "not hatches" let alone cars where the engine has been stuck in the middle.

That's the sort of reasoning I was hoping for.

Although I disagree

[EnglishTony]

300bhp/ton said:

EnglishTony said:

Seat TDI, no.
Pulsar GTR, Homogolation
Focus ST, yes
Renault 5 mid engine turbo thing, arguably world's 1st Ultra Hatch

So why does homoligation mean it isn't a hot hatch? Maybe sports cars aren't sports cars either if they are raced

And if a petrol car with the same power is a hot hatch, then a diesel is too.

It's my opinion. Others are available. They are, however, wrong.

[MarshPhantom]

300bhp/ton said:

MarshPhantom said:

300bhp/ton said:

xRIEx said:

MarshPhantom said:

Meridius said:

The Integrale is definitely a hot hatch, its just hotter than the HF. Same with the Golf R, hot hatchback, just hotter than the GTI.

Homologation special. The Golf R is the modern day equivalent of the Audi Quattro rather than the Golf GTI.

Can a car not be a homologation model and a hatchback at the same time?

Yes. I posted earlier that people will moan with no rational reason this is one of them.

And people who moan about this in general, usually have no clue to the Delta's model line up anyhow.

For instance, there was the Delta HF 4wd, then the Integrale, then the Intregrale 16v and ALL were proper production models.



While on the subject of homologation it's interesting to note that the Clio Williams was also a homologation special, yet nobody ever claims no fair on it being a hot hatch

Unlike most rally specials the Williams was a FWD bog standard Clio 16v power wise.

And the Integrale was a big standard awd Delta... Your point it what exactly??

What are you going on about? If the HF was a hot hatch what was the Integrale?

The Williams is a hot hatch because it's a Clio 16v (can we agree this is a hot hatch?) with blue paint and gold wheels. The Integrale had, at the very least a bigger, much more powerful engine and 4x4 over the 2wd HF. Do you really not see the difference or you just being awkward?

[xRIEx]

MarshPhantom said:

What are you going on about? If the HF was a hot hatch what was the Integrale?

The Williams is a hot hatch because it's a Clio 16v (can we agree this is a hot hatch?) with blue paint and gold wheels. The Integrale had, at the very least a bigger, much more powerful engine and 4x4 over the 2wd HF. Do you really not see the difference or you just being awkward?

To save quotes in quotes in quotes.

I don't see why that stops it from being a hot hatch.

The Focus RS has a bigger engine than the Focus ST and 4WD instead of 2WD - is that no longer a hot hatch? At what point does it stop being a hatchback and stop being 'hot'?

Is the Golf R also not a hot hatch? (Some people have said yes to this, I still don't understand why that is the case.) It has a more powerful engine (albeit not bigger) and 4WD; the GTi has less power and FWD - same situation, why has the R stopped being a hatchback and stopped being 'hot'? Same goes for the A45, same for the S3/RS3.

The Focus RS and the Golf R are not homologation specials* (same for A45/S3/RS3) - what category do they fall under?


 *Homologation - I'm still not sure why the case is being made that a vehicle produced for homologation purposes stops it from being with its category. Can anyone explain?

Does the Lancer Evo stop being a performance saloon because it's a homologation production? I'm fairly certain the OWO2, RC30, RC45, ZX7RR and 916SPS/996R/etc. never stopped being superbikes just because they were (very expensive, in some cases) homologation specials.

[300bhp/ton]

MarshPhantom said:

What are you going on about? If the HF was a hot hatch what was the Integrale?

The Williams is a hot hatch because it's a Clio 16v (can we agree this is a hot hatch?) with blue paint and gold wheels. The Integrale had, at the very least a bigger, much more powerful engine and 4x4 over the 2wd HF. Do you really not see the difference or you just being awkward?

The only awkward person is you.

What logical rational can you come up with why those points shouldn't make it a hot hatch??? And you are wrong too. There was a Delta HF 4wd.... Before the Integrale.

And as stated earlier, the Delta Intgrale was a production model. Ie part of the normal model line up. Go and check the production numbers of you really don't believe it.