Define Hot Hatch

[Mr Tidy]

Fascinating thread.

I had 2 Capri 2.8 Injections back in the day - certainly hatches, and hot for the era (but RWD)!?

Now I have a 325ti with 3 doors and more grunt than the Capris - hot hatch or not?

Plus a Z4 Coupe - even more grunt and a tailgate so definitely a hatch, and loads hotter. But is it a hot hatch?! It's probably smaller than the latest Focus, Golf, Civic offerings, so does that make it a mini-hatch?

And do I care? FWD, understeer and torque-steer can be over-rated IMHO!

[nickfrog]

Truckosaurus said:

So, The Rules thus far:
No diesels
No RWD
No 4wd
4 cylinders.

You mean your rules. No one "agrees" with them so far. Still don't know why a hot hatch couldn't be RWD. 130i and M135i feel very much like hot hatches. Could you share your workings please ;-) ?

[Mr Tidy]

nickfrog said:

You mean your rules. No one "agrees" with them so far. Still don't know why a hot hatch couldn't be RWD. 130i and M135i feel very much like hot hatches. Could you share your workings please ;-) ?

I had a 123d SE Dynamic - hatch and 201bhp so hottish, but being RWD and diesel it apparently doesn't count!

Whereas my 325ti Compact doesn't count as it is RWD, like my Z4 Coupe - plus they have more cylinders than your definition of "shopping trolley with more boost sh*te" - the world wouldn't be a fun place if we all liked the same things!

[Bibbs]

Hot hatch - a small hatchback family car that can keep up with me, but I'd never want to drive or own.

[MarshPhantom]

300bhp/ton said:

MarshPhantom said:

What are you going on about? If the HF was a hot hatch what was the Integrale?

The Williams is a hot hatch because it's a Clio 16v (can we agree this is a hot hatch?) with blue paint and gold wheels. The Integrale had, at the very least a bigger, much more powerful engine and 4x4 over the 2wd HF. Do you really not see the difference or you just being awkward?

The only awkward person is you.

What logical rational can you come up with why those points shouldn't make it a hot hatch??? And you are wrong too. There was a Delta HF 4wd.... Before the Integrale.

And as stated earlier, the Delta Intgrale was a production model. Ie part of the normal model line up. Go and check the production numbers of you really don't believe it.

It fails the affordable test, they were £25k a quarter of a century ago. As do the other rally specials. Plus stuff like the R5 Turbo205/6R4 fail on practicality as the engine is where passengers and luggage should go.

[Truckosaurus]

nickfrog said:

You mean your rules. ...

Exactly.

For example, I still see the 1-series as something 'more' (or perhaps just different and not necessarily better) than a hot hatch because it is RWD, despite being a similar size to a Golf Gti or a Megane RS etc.

Similarly, the old C-class coupe thing that was also technically a hatchback and could come with some powerful engines, but wouldn't fit my concept of a 'hot hatch'.

[Impasse]

This is my bottom of the range, smallest engined, entry level, two door hot hatch. You can tell its a hatchback because it's got a (gift wrapped) flat screen TV in the boot.

[Tickle]

Escort Cosworth
GTiR Sunny
R26-R Megane
Lotus Sunbeam
Clio V6
T-16 205
6R4 Metro
M135i
Intergrale

Are all, however not the norm are hot hatches IMHO.

A FF is not a hot hatch.

[MarshPhantom]

Tickle said:

Escort Cosworth
GTiR Sunny
R26-R Megane
Lotus Sunbeam
Clio V6
T-16 205
6R4 Metro
M135i
Intergrale

Are all, however not the norm are hot hatches IMHO.

A FF is not a hot hatch.

Practicality? Three of those have the engine where the rear seat passengers should go. An FF is a grand tourer.

[bigvanfan]

Tickle said:

Escort Cosworth
GTiR Sunny
R26-R Megane
Lotus Sunbeam
Clio V6
T-16 205
6R4 Metro
M135i
Intergrale

Are all, however not the norm are hot hatches IMHO.

A FF is not a hot hatch.

I wouldn't call any of them a hot hatch, they are all (more ) than a hot hatch , just doesn't feel right calling an escort cosworth a hot hatch

[300bhp/ton]

MarshPhantom said:

It fails the affordable test, they were £25k a quarter of a century ago. As do the other rally specials. Plus stuff like the R5 Turbo205/6R4 fail on practicality as the engine is where passengers and luggage should go.

What affordability test, now you are just being absurd.

[300bhp/ton]

bigvanfan said:

Tickle said:

Escort Cosworth
GTiR Sunny
R26-R Megane
Lotus Sunbeam
Clio V6
T-16 205
6R4 Metro
M135i
Intergrale

Are all, however not the norm are hot hatches IMHO.

A FF is not a hot hatch.

I wouldn't call any of them a hot hatch, they are all (more ) than a hot hatch , just doesn't feel right calling an escort cosworth a hot hatch

Well what is it then?

It looks like an Escort, has the same seating and same boot space as an Escort.

What about these...



RS2000 with AWD.

[GroundEffect]

This place will argue about anything.

Hot hatch to me = anything that is anything that is the hot version of a normal run-of-the-mill family hatch.

That means to exclude Cayman, Ferrari FF, Porsche Panamera etc as they are far from 'run of the mill'

Anything else is covered.

[otolith]

300bhp/ton said:

bigvanfan said:

Tickle said:

Escort Cosworth

I wouldn't call any of them a hot hatch, they are all (more ) than a hot hatch , just doesn't feel right calling an escort cosworth a hot hatch

Well what is it then?

A Sierra in drag.

[MarshPhantom]

300bhp/ton said:

MarshPhantom said:

It fails the affordable test, they were £25k a quarter of a century ago. As do the other rally specials. Plus stuff like the R5 Turbo205/6R4 fail on practicality as the engine is where passengers and luggage should go.

What affordability test, now you are just being absurd.

Hot hatches should be affordable, much like muscle cars to use an example you may6 understand.

No one would call a DB9 a muscle car or a Capri a GT. So why not?

[otolith]

It's a conventional A, B or C-segment car with a more powerful engine and a sportier setup.

Rally car homologation specials may also fit that description but are typically higher performance, higher cost, and more extensively modified from the base vehicle.

[300bhp/ton]

otolith said:

A Sierra in drag.

But it's not a Sierra body style or format. So in terms of it being a hot hatch, it has no bearing on it.

[nickfrog]

Truckosaurus said:

Exactly.

That's what I thought

[otolith]

300bhp/ton said:

otolith said:

A Sierra in drag.

But it's not a Sierra body style or format. So in terms of it being a hot hatch, it has no bearing on it.

What hatch is it a hot version of?

[xRIEx]

otolith said:

300bhp/ton said:

otolith said:

A Sierra in drag.

But it's not a Sierra body style or format. So in terms of it being a hot hatch, it has no bearing on it.

What hatch is it a hot version of?

Escort.