650S crashed into a tree on its first outing! :(
Discussion
The Wookie said:
J4CKO said:
TheJimi said:
Have to admit, I do sometimes think that after a certain power to weight threshold, there should be a competency test of sorts before one is allowed to purchase and drive.
Ditto bikes and I mean beyond the standard direct access stuff.
I'm a dyed in the wool petrolhead and libertarian, but it *is* kinda ludicrous that anyone with a licence can drive any level of performance car.
Yeah, I dont think a lot can comprehend how ridiculously fast these kind of cars are, I think most will be enthusiasts who have gone through the ranks and incrementally got to the utter mentalness that is something like this McLaren but say your average lottery winner, the ones that dont go kerr-azy and buy a new Fiesta, say going from a Diesel hatch like a Megane or Golf wont know what has hit them, even serial petrolheads used to fairly quick stuff will need to get dialled in to something like that.Ditto bikes and I mean beyond the standard direct access stuff.
I'm a dyed in the wool petrolhead and libertarian, but it *is* kinda ludicrous that anyone with a licence can drive any level of performance car.
Add in how low they are, the fact they are mid engined etc, even though they have ESP and all that, physics still applies, where a quick prod on the accelerator at 30 in your diesel golf for 3 sec gets you to what, 45, in the Mclaren, you are doing 100 or therabouts.
So yes, I agree, having 200 grand is not enough qualification to be unleashed with no experience in something like this, not saying that is what happened, even the best, experienced drivers get it wrong but that is unlikely.
Actually, was there a wedding nearby ?
I was at a PR event for Lotus with <sorry name drop alert> Bruno Senna a few years back and we were talking about his 997 GT2RS; his opinion was that they shouldn't sell them to non-racing drivers as he couldn't imagine it being anything other than dangerous to someone that doesn't have a high level of car control to rely on if it starts to go wrong.
Personally I think it's verging on irresponsible and all it will take is one or two high profile accidents to cause serious ructions in the industry. I would consider mandatory driver training courses for the first few owners as an absolute minimum, if only for the manufacturer's to cover their arses.
However, not all people with the money to buy (or more usually, rent) something properly fast are all that sensible, egged on by the car spotters/bloggers or whatever or just making the most of having a Ferrari (or similar) at your disposal for a few hours, I have a friend who drives for a wealthy guy and he has turned up at our house on numerous occasions in all sorts and taken me for a spin, obviously you think fantastic, sat there watching telly and the door goes and you get a spin in something very interesting, but really, these type of cars arent for showing off in, thats when it all goes wrong, doing over 100 mph in a residential area is insane and I would rather not get a go than endanger others.
So I am aware of the performance available, its almost like the thrust is not in the same scale as the roads we drive on most of the time, if you know what I mean, my son got delivered home the other day in a 991 turbo driven by his mates brother looking a bit pale.
I have a seven grand Mercedes that to me feels bonkers fast compared to what I could have ever expected in the past (matches a Fwerrari Testarossa to 100 and over a 1/4 mile on paper), silly performance is migrating downwards, leased Golf Rs with a remap, older AMG Mercs and all the other new, fast stuff, not in the Mclaren realm but certainly on a par with older supercars, and then we have the Teslas.
Speed addicted said:
TheJimi said:
Have to admit, I do sometimes think that after a certain power to weight threshold, there should be a competency test of sorts before one is allowed to purchase and drive.
Ditto bikes and I mean beyond the standard direct access stuff.
I'm a dyed in the wool petrolhead and libertarian, but it *is* kinda ludicrous that anyone with a licence can drive any level of performance car.
Judging by how many supercars you don't see burning upside down in ditches there must be a majority of people that buy them and can cope with the power quite nicely though?Ditto bikes and I mean beyond the standard direct access stuff.
I'm a dyed in the wool petrolhead and libertarian, but it *is* kinda ludicrous that anyone with a licence can drive any level of performance car.
Same for seriously fast bikes. The new rules limit how much power you can have, but after about 600cc on something sporty they're all pretty quick. I'd expect to see that less Hayabusas are crashed than R6s.
At the end of the day the people buying these things are adults and are expected to make adult decisions. The fact that a percentage of the population can't be trusted to wipe their own arses shouldn't ruin it for the rest of us.
Free tour of mclaren factory, 2 hours on the track then a glass of champagne and it gets dropped off at your house the next day.
Thankyou4calling said:
Surely cars like this Mclaren are pretty much ALL bought by enthusiasts.
Why on earth would you spend more than £200,000 on a car if you weren't into cars?
I can accept they might not be getting up at the crack of dawn to watch a Welsh Rally stage in the rain or comparing the relative merits of understeer and oversteer but I think it's a misconception that people who buy these cars aren't into cars.
Of course they want to be looked at but if the car is their means of doing so, as far as I'm concerned they are car people.
They really aren't pretty much all bought by enthusiasts though, as much as you might like to think. Even McLaren, who don't have the typical 'wWhy on earth would you spend more than £200,000 on a car if you weren't into cars?
I can accept they might not be getting up at the crack of dawn to watch a Welsh Rally stage in the rain or comparing the relative merits of understeer and oversteer but I think it's a misconception that people who buy these cars aren't into cars.
Of course they want to be looked at but if the car is their means of doing so, as far as I'm concerned they are car people.
ker' badge appeal of Ferrari and Lamborghini, can end up as just being somewhere for the rich to burn money. A farmer near me has famously bought a new McLaren recently after selling some of his land presumably because his windfall has been so great he doesn't know what to spend the money on. I've seen that car out and about on some fantastic roads being driven like a Passat. You or I, who would really relish that car on that road, would at least reach the speed limit...! TheJimi said:
Have to admit, I do sometimes think that after a certain power to weight threshold, there should be a competency test of sorts before one is allowed to purchase and drive.
Somewhere in the region of 50bhp/tonne I'd say.I like my cars and like to think I'm not completely hopeless behind the wheel, but even I think the performance of some not particularly expensive cars now is pretty ridiculous.
Also just because you like cars doesn't mean you're actually any good at driving them - some of the worst drivers I've seen are people who love cars and have spent an awful lot of money on them. Once whilst out with a group of cars I decided just to peel off and leave them to it to it as I was convinced one guy was going to end up killing someone and didn't want to be nearby when it happened!
I work in boat sales and we've sold a few 400k+ boats to a guy who has never taken any of them out you the marina. He just likes buying them. Everytime I met him he owned a different high end car, all of which never got driven properly, he would usually turn up in his wife's Volvo C30, just because it was easier. He seemed to get a thrill from 'the chase' of doing the deal and getting it delivered, and would then lose interest a bit and would.start looking at the next one.
Lots of our customers turn up in expensive cars that they seem to own mainly because they can.
I also agree with the license thing but don't know if it should be a test as such, more as an experience thing so if you were a young footballer or won the lottery you couldn't just go nuts. But I appreciate it would be annoying if you built your way up over 20 years. I passed my bike test a year ago and have only ever ridden my 250 offroad bike since, but if I wanted to I could have a go of my mates K1200r.
Lots of our customers turn up in expensive cars that they seem to own mainly because they can.
I also agree with the license thing but don't know if it should be a test as such, more as an experience thing so if you were a young footballer or won the lottery you couldn't just go nuts. But I appreciate it would be annoying if you built your way up over 20 years. I passed my bike test a year ago and have only ever ridden my 250 offroad bike since, but if I wanted to I could have a go of my mates K1200r.
br d said:
How do you know he doesn't just slow down when other cars are about?
Would you find yourself tootling at 50mph on what would be classed as a top drawer B road? I've passed him before on my bike - he's just driving along, glazed over, never looks in the mirrors. It appears to all intents and purposes that he's asleep at the wheel or driving something as monotonous as a Mondeo. That's not a specific criticism of him as I'm always looking at other drivers and assessing what they're thinking about, and I rarely see any mirror or shoulder checks, but the observation does suggest he's not really into it. That is of course, fine. I'm sure if I was lucky enough to receive a massive lump sum at any one time, so much that I could afford a £200,000 sports car I'd buy other frivolous items that I wouldn't care much about. I don't care for watches but, in his position, I dare say I'd buy something pretty expensive and perhaps attract fair criticism from 'timepiece enthusiasts' for not really knowing or caring about what makes my £5000 watch worthy of it's price tag. Perhaps he has done the same with his car? For the driving I've seen, suggests he's yet to find the accelerator...Of course, he's not unique in having a really fast car and never pushing it. I recall a thread on the subject of performance cars that tootle everywhere went on for quite a while on these very boards. Recently, someone maligned the Golf R by saying it reeks of a middle manager going to VW and saying 'Give me the top of the line Golf'. On the south side of the village where I live, there is a collection of really wealthy folk who have some really cool cars. I often follow these out of the village, since there is one proper road out, and to get to even the local petrol station requires a drive down a decent little B road with some good straights and a complex of turns. When I get there, I tuck in on the tank, wind the throttle open and go at it. These cars, largely, don't approach the road with the same enthusiasm. But if you lived in a house worth a million pounds, you probably wouldn't have a Kia on the drive etc etc.
Baryonyx said:
Would you find yourself tootling at 50mph on what would be classed as a top drawer B road? I've passed him before on my bike - he's just driving along, glazed over, never looks in the mirrors. It appears to all intents and purposes that he's asleep at the wheel or driving something as monotonous as a Mondeo. That's not a specific criticism of him as I'm always looking at other drivers and assessing what they're thinking about, and I rarely see any mirror or shoulder checks, but the observation does suggest he's not really into it. That is of course, fine. I'm sure if I was lucky enough to receive a massive lump sum at any one time, so much that I could afford a £200,000 sports car I'd buy other frivolous items that I wouldn't care much about. I don't care for watches but, in his position, I dare say I'd buy something pretty expensive and perhaps attract fair criticism from 'timepiece enthusiasts' for not really knowing or caring about what makes my £5000 watch worthy of it's price tag. Perhaps he has done the same with his car? For the driving I've seen, suggests he's yet to find the accelerator...
Of course, he's not unique in having a really fast car and never pushing it. I recall a thread on the subject of performance cars that tootle everywhere went on for quite a while on these very boards. Recently, someone maligned the Golf R by saying it reeks of a middle manager going to VW and saying 'Give me the top of the line Golf'. On the south side of the village where I live, there is a collection of really wealthy folk who have some really cool cars. I often follow these out of the village, since there is one proper road out, and to get to even the local petrol station requires a drive down a decent little B road with some good straights and a complex of turns. When I get there, I tuck in on the tank, wind the throttle open and go at it. These cars, largely, don't approach the road with the same enthusiasm. But if you lived in a house worth a million pounds, you probably wouldn't have a Kia on the drive etc etc.
Thanks for expanding. Of course, he's not unique in having a really fast car and never pushing it. I recall a thread on the subject of performance cars that tootle everywhere went on for quite a while on these very boards. Recently, someone maligned the Golf R by saying it reeks of a middle manager going to VW and saying 'Give me the top of the line Golf'. On the south side of the village where I live, there is a collection of really wealthy folk who have some really cool cars. I often follow these out of the village, since there is one proper road out, and to get to even the local petrol station requires a drive down a decent little B road with some good straights and a complex of turns. When I get there, I tuck in on the tank, wind the throttle open and go at it. These cars, largely, don't approach the road with the same enthusiasm. But if you lived in a house worth a million pounds, you probably wouldn't have a Kia on the drive etc etc.
I can't see an issue here though unless the guy is weaving across the road or running 20mph under the limit. It's his car and completely up to him how he drives it, on condition that he isn't a danger of course.
I often pootle about in mine depending on my mood, doesn't mean I won't thrash it silly when the road conditions allow though.
Jimmy Recard said:
Why shouldn't a man drive his car gently and legally?
I can't see how that's unreasonable
I agree. It can only be the Supercar image thing. I presume people think that if they were driving it they'd try to get the most out of its capabilities so seeing someone just using it like a regular car irks them. I can't see how that's unreasonable
I can't imagine anyone complaining that some bloke who lives near them isn't driving their Ford Fiesta faster!
What an incredible situation!! Not surprising that it happened, as the car is pretty fast (Goes up to 204 mph) and can accelerate quickly indeed (0-60 in just THREE SECONDS).
Such a shame as it cost £215,000. Suppose that's what £215,000 buys you these days - a McLaren Supercar that goes up to 204 MPH, 0-60 in 3 seconds.
Such a shame as it cost £215,000. Suppose that's what £215,000 buys you these days - a McLaren Supercar that goes up to 204 MPH, 0-60 in 3 seconds.
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