Family Emergency. How fast would you go? Be honest.
Discussion
GarryDK said:
A few months ago my son (4 months at the time) was rushed to hospital as he woke up with blood all down his baby grow, had come from his mouth. wife called me up I had only just got to work, said ambulance was on its way, I had to tell work etc, by which time ambulance was at my house. I beat the ambulance to the hospital despite being further away. I cant tell you how fast I was going and I didn't really care I had one thing in mind, get there and see my son. Fortunately he was ok and it wasn't life threatening in the end.
What was it?Last year my 6 month old daughter banged her head. She was sick, lay down with her eyes closed and was completely non responsive. We were about 15 miles from a hospital, in the middle of nowhere. I wouldn't wish the blind panic that followed on anyone. Mix of b roads and single carriageway a roads to get into town. Luckily it was 7am at the weekend. I went as fast as the roads allowed. As someone else has said, the police would have had to chase me all the way there. At that point, speeding tickets or bans didn't even register.
Dad died in 2011, the day before that I'd just got home from the hospital to have a bit of a break when my brother called to say he'd taken a turn and I needed to get there. I'm not at all proud of this but I used pretty much every inch of the power/performance my TVR has down the A1 to Stevenage.
Emotions sometimes overrule the head and I'm ashamed to say in this case that happened, fortunately all was OK getting there.
Emotions sometimes overrule the head and I'm ashamed to say in this case that happened, fortunately all was OK getting there.
If/when a person gets this awful situation dropped on them, though very hard, they must try to set out being aware of the intense need to get to where they need to as quickly as possible that will affect them, and try at least to drive in a way that is not going to make the situation worse (or in some cases much, much worse) Even if a driver does not have an accident, they might be likely to get pulled over by the police for exceeding a posted limit. In which case instead of making progress to the hospital/place they need to be, they could be be sat stationary by the side of the road, having a conversation with a traffic officer.
It seems to go completely against what a driver actually wants to do in the situation, but sticking at (or as near possible0 to the posted limits, and driving within the rules of the road is still going to be the safest quickest option for getting to the hospital in time. (that said, there may be stretches of road which are empty, in which high speed bursts to cut the journey time are safely possible)
It seems to go completely against what a driver actually wants to do in the situation, but sticking at (or as near possible0 to the posted limits, and driving within the rules of the road is still going to be the safest quickest option for getting to the hospital in time. (that said, there may be stretches of road which are empty, in which high speed bursts to cut the journey time are safely possible)
Very interesting topic. I cant help but echo comments on both sides of the fence though.
From experience, usually the dreaded call that your loved one is starting to slip away, is usually a formality following the actualy event. In my experience at least. Meaning all these people rushing, could potentially be risking a lot, pointlessly.
However a similar experience happened to me. I received a call from my mother when I was in the office about two years ago. Straight away alarm bells were ringing, as this never happens. She explained my father was feeling unwell and I was probably going to need to take him to the hospital (my mother doesnt drive). My old man is fit as a fiddle, and at the time had just turned 60. But my best friend had lost his father suddenly less than a year earlier so that was very much in my mind. Feeling sick, I left work to jog across the road to my '05 Subaru STI, the perfect car for a swift trip to hospital to realise that it was being serviced. At this point really panicking I ran back into work, grabbed someone and ended up getting a lift in one of the work's Ford KAs. Shortly after reaching home (a few miles away) I was told that my mother had come to my senses, and after ringing the non emergency NHS number, called 999 and they were on their way. My father looked extremely frail and ill. The paramedic car arrived within minutes of me arriving home, confirmed he was having a massive heart attack, and had been for some hours. When asked when the pain was at it's worst, he replied "about halfway along the M55", after having driven the 40 miles home from work, with severe chest pains. I proceeded to throw up due to nerves, my sister arrived, followed closely by sirens and the ambulance. The staff were fantastic, did the maths, realised he was going to need to go to Blackpool hospital for the specialist there, and scrambled the air ambulance. If I was to have taken him to the local A&E, the staff not being familiar with my father and not knowing how ill he looked compared to his normal self, whilst he massively played down the symptoms, would have meant a delay in getting seen. In reality, withing 30minutes of being called by my mother, he was being loaded into the air ambulance on the local cricket green, and whisked away. We were then given a postcode for the hospital and told by the time we got there he would be in theatre. I loaded my mother and sister into the car and set off on the 50mile journey I had never done, in rush hour, with a distraught mother sat next to me. My speed crept up. Desperate to get to the hospital, desperate to get the journey over with. But quickly I realised after having done a weekly Blackburn-Carlisle trip for some years, that 20mph difference in speed makes only a matter of minutes difference in your arrival time. Also, having passengers accutely aware that all the occupants of the car, are upset, worried and panicked means that any extra stress or alarm is best avoided. The last thing my mother needed was to be concerned I was driving too fast and we were going to be joining my father in the hospital. Getting there early would not affect the outcome by one iota, it wasnt like I was in a position to scrub up and join the surgeons with the defribulator.
After deciding not to rush to the hospital excessively, and arriving in one piece, we waited over an hour for him to emerge from surgery, frail, tired, grey, but more importantly, alive. None of us envisioned that the call to the NHS helpline would result in the air ambulance saving my father. In the same way that you dont consider risk when adrenalin kicks in, you also can't rationally consider what resources the emergency services have at their disposal.
From experience, usually the dreaded call that your loved one is starting to slip away, is usually a formality following the actualy event. In my experience at least. Meaning all these people rushing, could potentially be risking a lot, pointlessly.
However a similar experience happened to me. I received a call from my mother when I was in the office about two years ago. Straight away alarm bells were ringing, as this never happens. She explained my father was feeling unwell and I was probably going to need to take him to the hospital (my mother doesnt drive). My old man is fit as a fiddle, and at the time had just turned 60. But my best friend had lost his father suddenly less than a year earlier so that was very much in my mind. Feeling sick, I left work to jog across the road to my '05 Subaru STI, the perfect car for a swift trip to hospital to realise that it was being serviced. At this point really panicking I ran back into work, grabbed someone and ended up getting a lift in one of the work's Ford KAs. Shortly after reaching home (a few miles away) I was told that my mother had come to my senses, and after ringing the non emergency NHS number, called 999 and they were on their way. My father looked extremely frail and ill. The paramedic car arrived within minutes of me arriving home, confirmed he was having a massive heart attack, and had been for some hours. When asked when the pain was at it's worst, he replied "about halfway along the M55", after having driven the 40 miles home from work, with severe chest pains. I proceeded to throw up due to nerves, my sister arrived, followed closely by sirens and the ambulance. The staff were fantastic, did the maths, realised he was going to need to go to Blackpool hospital for the specialist there, and scrambled the air ambulance. If I was to have taken him to the local A&E, the staff not being familiar with my father and not knowing how ill he looked compared to his normal self, whilst he massively played down the symptoms, would have meant a delay in getting seen. In reality, withing 30minutes of being called by my mother, he was being loaded into the air ambulance on the local cricket green, and whisked away. We were then given a postcode for the hospital and told by the time we got there he would be in theatre. I loaded my mother and sister into the car and set off on the 50mile journey I had never done, in rush hour, with a distraught mother sat next to me. My speed crept up. Desperate to get to the hospital, desperate to get the journey over with. But quickly I realised after having done a weekly Blackburn-Carlisle trip for some years, that 20mph difference in speed makes only a matter of minutes difference in your arrival time. Also, having passengers accutely aware that all the occupants of the car, are upset, worried and panicked means that any extra stress or alarm is best avoided. The last thing my mother needed was to be concerned I was driving too fast and we were going to be joining my father in the hospital. Getting there early would not affect the outcome by one iota, it wasnt like I was in a position to scrub up and join the surgeons with the defribulator.
After deciding not to rush to the hospital excessively, and arriving in one piece, we waited over an hour for him to emerge from surgery, frail, tired, grey, but more importantly, alive. None of us envisioned that the call to the NHS helpline would result in the air ambulance saving my father. In the same way that you dont consider risk when adrenalin kicks in, you also can't rationally consider what resources the emergency services have at their disposal.
This is you just want to be there - My mother had been very ill for some time, and we all knew that it was inevitable, but when it comes through and you are the other side of the country you do try to make progress, yes it may be minutes difference but those minutes may be the difference.
Life has some pretty bad times in it times when you lose a lved one or times when something happens thats not plesant. You cant help where you are but you do know where you need to be and every horse power will be actively employed in getting your ass to where you need to be.
Yes many go through life without ever experiancing that moment, without having the trauma of being in the wrong place. we may all say that we would do this or we would do that, but when it comes down to it that all goes out the window. it really does.
Life has some pretty bad times in it times when you lose a lved one or times when something happens thats not plesant. You cant help where you are but you do know where you need to be and every horse power will be actively employed in getting your ass to where you need to be.
Yes many go through life without ever experiancing that moment, without having the trauma of being in the wrong place. we may all say that we would do this or we would do that, but when it comes down to it that all goes out the window. it really does.
Ill say it again. Its not worth the risk to you or others out there to drive like a complete and utter tit. Drive fast but safely, make progress but don't put others in such danger by your driving.
It could be me or my family you end up crashing into and I can tell you that it had better be me you crash and wipe out and not my family out cycling. I wont care about your reasons for driving like a loon.
Have a plan, think about what you would do, plan to drive sensibly, drive fast but not as a loon with no brains. Think about the consequences of wiping out another family because you drove like a tit just to get to the death bed of a relative who you could make no difference to.
Think about the consequences of killing somebody on the way because of your bad/clouded driving. Think about It before you get that call. by thinking now you hopefully will modify your drive so to be fast but not loon fast. You will know what to do.
It could be me or my family you end up crashing into and I can tell you that it had better be me you crash and wipe out and not my family out cycling. I wont care about your reasons for driving like a loon.
Have a plan, think about what you would do, plan to drive sensibly, drive fast but not as a loon with no brains. Think about the consequences of wiping out another family because you drove like a tit just to get to the death bed of a relative who you could make no difference to.
Think about the consequences of killing somebody on the way because of your bad/clouded driving. Think about It before you get that call. by thinking now you hopefully will modify your drive so to be fast but not loon fast. You will know what to do.
Edited by superlightr on Friday 6th May 20:25
Edited by superlightr on Friday 6th May 20:28
Having done this and managed to say gooobye to my mum all I will say is as fast as I could safely (my interpretation not Brakes) I don't regret it and would do it again, a driving ban was a worthwhile risk.
I had a car capable of very serious speed and had luckily recieved training on how to drive quickly with work.
I had a car capable of very serious speed and had luckily recieved training on how to drive quickly with work.
Driving like a loon - I dont think anyone would really thinking about it,
but as I said everything went out of the rule book - there is driving within the rules of the road and driving outwith the rules, I dont think that its black and white and if you are driving outside the rules then it doesnt make you a bad driver.
As long as you are confident and can read the road and conditions I dont think that you could describe that as a a loon. If you listen to a police driver and how they are readign the road as they go along you get a real appreciation of what is going on and what they are doing, its not a case of mashing the pedal to the floor, but its a case of them really pushing on within the confines of the road and other traffic. Assessing what is going on and yes making a few choices that would be construed as well outside the confines of the highway code. Treating traffic lights as a giveway, exceeding the posted speed limit. passing cars either side of the road and using grass verges to get round sitting cars.
Viewing the road and making assessments on what the traffic is like and what you can see - never presuming that other drivers will do as you expect. And never taking blind chances. Only ever working with what can be seen.
but as I said everything went out of the rule book - there is driving within the rules of the road and driving outwith the rules, I dont think that its black and white and if you are driving outside the rules then it doesnt make you a bad driver.
As long as you are confident and can read the road and conditions I dont think that you could describe that as a a loon. If you listen to a police driver and how they are readign the road as they go along you get a real appreciation of what is going on and what they are doing, its not a case of mashing the pedal to the floor, but its a case of them really pushing on within the confines of the road and other traffic. Assessing what is going on and yes making a few choices that would be construed as well outside the confines of the highway code. Treating traffic lights as a giveway, exceeding the posted speed limit. passing cars either side of the road and using grass verges to get round sitting cars.
Viewing the road and making assessments on what the traffic is like and what you can see - never presuming that other drivers will do as you expect. And never taking blind chances. Only ever working with what can be seen.
Edited by ruggedscotty on Saturday 14th May 21:40
ruggedscotty said:
Driving like a loon - I dont think anyone would really thinking about it,
but as I said everything went out of the rule book - there is driving within the rules of the road and driving outwith the rules, I dont think that its black and white and if you are driving outside the rules then it doesnt make you a bad driver.
As long as you are confident and can read the road and onditions I dont think that you could describet that as a a loon. If you listen to a police driver and how they are readignt he road as they go along you get a real appreciation of what is going on and what they are doing, its not a case of mashign the pedal to the floor, but its a case of them really pushing on within the confines of the road and other traffic. Assesing what is going on and yes making a few choices that would be construed as well outside the confines of the highway code. Treating traffic lights as a giveway, exceeding the posted speed limit. passing cars either side of the road and using grass verges to get round sitting cars.
Viewing the road and making assesments on what the traffic is like and what you can see - never presuming that other drivers will do as you expect. And never taking blind chances. Only ever working with what can be seen.
I would estimate that at least 80% of UK drivers won't be capable of any of that, and will simply "floor it".but as I said everything went out of the rule book - there is driving within the rules of the road and driving outwith the rules, I dont think that its black and white and if you are driving outside the rules then it doesnt make you a bad driver.
As long as you are confident and can read the road and onditions I dont think that you could describet that as a a loon. If you listen to a police driver and how they are readignt he road as they go along you get a real appreciation of what is going on and what they are doing, its not a case of mashign the pedal to the floor, but its a case of them really pushing on within the confines of the road and other traffic. Assesing what is going on and yes making a few choices that would be construed as well outside the confines of the highway code. Treating traffic lights as a giveway, exceeding the posted speed limit. passing cars either side of the road and using grass verges to get round sitting cars.
Viewing the road and making assesments on what the traffic is like and what you can see - never presuming that other drivers will do as you expect. And never taking blind chances. Only ever working with what can be seen.
Edited by zarjaz1991 on Sunday 8th May 09:13
ORD said:
I think that's massively optimistic. I would say 1 or 2% could drive quickly with a good degree of safety.
You're probably right.Whilst I personally would be better than "floor it", and have had some limited training in driving safely at speed, I'm certainly nowhere near the skill level required for that sort of thing and I would undoubtedly subject lots of people to a gruesome and violent death....
Accordingly, in the event of the type of emergency mentioned in this thread requiring me to drive, I may be more spirited than normal but that's all. I have no desire to kill anyone.
My worry is that people who lack even my meagre skill level think it's ok to just floor it. I shudder every time I'm drawn back to this thread. It's actually better not to think about it...
Plans and such like are all well and good, but for most crisis situations in life, we rarely get the heads up chance to make a plan or even think what if. 'So I live in X and my parents live in Y... and if my mum calls to tell me my father's in Z, i'll go this way at that speed'. Maybe, possibly, people think these things. The thing is though, if we live far enough away that it's impossible to be in a place in, for eample, an hour, mentally we accept that. The risks highten when we live 2 hours away and reckon we can do it in one hour ten.
We caclulate risk badly when under stress. More so, when that stress has a huge self interest for us.
How we react is an unknown until the moment that 'thing' happens. It's like asking now, 'what would you do if your XXX was trapped in a burning building...'. Truth is, you have absolutely no idea what so ever. Some jump into raging waters to save their pooch, others would climb onto a ledge to save the furball moggie. Yet others could do nothing but stand and watch. None if us know and morover, with regard to driving, I would be more inclined to think that our own deeper sense of self preservation becomes the dominating factor in how much risk we take. But there's the thing.. for each of us, it's not until we're truly 'tested', does it really manifest itself as a limiting parameter.
We caclulate risk badly when under stress. More so, when that stress has a huge self interest for us.
How we react is an unknown until the moment that 'thing' happens. It's like asking now, 'what would you do if your XXX was trapped in a burning building...'. Truth is, you have absolutely no idea what so ever. Some jump into raging waters to save their pooch, others would climb onto a ledge to save the furball moggie. Yet others could do nothing but stand and watch. None if us know and morover, with regard to driving, I would be more inclined to think that our own deeper sense of self preservation becomes the dominating factor in how much risk we take. But there's the thing.. for each of us, it's not until we're truly 'tested', does it really manifest itself as a limiting parameter.
X5TUU said:
I'm amazed at the ignorance and blind trust placed in the ambulance and PTS services ... The response times are not good and if you look at the stats for what makes it to the most critical patients within the 8min response time you'll be surprised ... That's Assuming that you have conveyed the ailment effectively to the call handler and been assigned the highest priority call (it's a word search based tool) ... I've personally known of calls that should have been 8mins responders allocated to within 24hrs times ... I appreciate being clinical I have a different perspective but people need to open their eyes more ... Plus ambulances aren't legitimately allowed to speed, think about it, when was the last time you saw a a blue lighter ambulance blazing along to get to a patient (or hospital)
To be fair, if there weren't so many overweight smokers filling up the ambulances and A&E corridors with heart failure and chest infections, it would probably be much better.drivin_me_nuts said:
Plans and such like are all well and good, but for most crisis situations in life, we rarely get the heads up chance to make a plan or even think what if. 'So I live in X and my parents live in Y... and if my mum calls to tell me my father's in Z, i'll go this way at that speed'. Maybe, possibly, people think these things. The thing is though, if we live far enough away that it's impossible to be in a place in, for eample, an hour, mentally we accept that. The risks highten when we live 2 hours away and reckon we can do it in one hour ten.
We caclulate risk badly when under stress. More so, when that stress has a huge self interest for us.
How we react is an unknown until the moment that 'thing' happens. It's like asking now, 'what would you do if your XXX was trapped in a burning building...'. Truth is, you have absolutely no idea what so ever. Some jump into raging waters to save their pooch, others would climb onto a ledge to save the furball moggie. Yet others could do nothing but stand and watch. None if us know and morover, with regard to driving, I would be more inclined to think that our own deeper sense of self preservation becomes the dominating factor in how much risk we take. But there's the thing.. for each of us, it's not until we're truly 'tested', does it really manifest itself as a limiting parameter.
We caclulate risk badly when under stress. More so, when that stress has a huge self interest for us.
How we react is an unknown until the moment that 'thing' happens. It's like asking now, 'what would you do if your XXX was trapped in a burning building...'. Truth is, you have absolutely no idea what so ever. Some jump into raging waters to save their pooch, others would climb onto a ledge to save the furball moggie. Yet others could do nothing but stand and watch. None if us know and morover, with regard to driving, I would be more inclined to think that our own deeper sense of self preservation becomes the dominating factor in how much risk we take. But there's the thing.. for each of us, it's not until we're truly 'tested', does it really manifest itself as a limiting parameter.
drivin_me_nuts said:
Plans and such like are all well and good, but for most crisis situations in life, we rarely get the heads up chance to make a plan or even think what if. 'So I live in X and my parents live in Y... and if my mum calls to tell me my father's in Z, i'll go this way at that speed'. Maybe, possibly, people think these things. The thing is though, if we live far enough away that it's impossible to be in a place in, for eample, an hour, mentally we accept that. The risks highten when we live 2 hours away and reckon we can do it in one hour ten.
We caclulate risk badly when under stress. More so, when that stress has a huge self interest for us.
How we react is an unknown until the moment that 'thing' happens. It's like asking now, 'what would you do if your XXX was trapped in a burning building...'. Truth is, you have absolutely no idea what so ever. Some jump into raging waters to save their pooch, others would climb onto a ledge to save the furball moggie. Yet others could do nothing but stand and watch. None if us know and morover, with regard to driving, I would be more inclined to think that our own deeper sense of self preservation becomes the dominating factor in how much risk we take. But there's the thing.. for each of us, it's not until we're truly 'tested', does it really manifest itself as a limiting parameter.
Not entirely true. I know for certain that I would take substantial risks with the lives of others in order to get somewhere more quickly. It is gross and seriously immoral selfishness to think 'It is important to me, so to hell with everyone else!'.We caclulate risk badly when under stress. More so, when that stress has a huge self interest for us.
How we react is an unknown until the moment that 'thing' happens. It's like asking now, 'what would you do if your XXX was trapped in a burning building...'. Truth is, you have absolutely no idea what so ever. Some jump into raging waters to save their pooch, others would climb onto a ledge to save the furball moggie. Yet others could do nothing but stand and watch. None if us know and morover, with regard to driving, I would be more inclined to think that our own deeper sense of self preservation becomes the dominating factor in how much risk we take. But there's the thing.. for each of us, it's not until we're truly 'tested', does it really manifest itself as a limiting parameter.
Thinking about journeys I frequently do, I expect that I coujld reasonably safely average 10-15mph faster as an average speed, but no more than that. That isn't going to make much difference in any scenario, so even those modest extra risks are probably not worth it.
ORD said:
Not entirely true. I know for certain that I would take substantial risks with the lives of others in order to get somewhere more quickly. It is gross and seriously immoral selfishness to think 'It is important to me, so to hell with everyone else!'.
Thinking about journeys I frequently do, I expect that I coujld reasonably safely average 10-15mph faster as an average speed, but no more than that. That isn't going to make much difference in any scenario, so even those modest extra risks are probably not worth it.
People don't think, 'It is important to me, so to hell with everyone else!'. In sitautions such as we are discussing, the morality of which you abhor, does not come in to it. Often, when faced with the 'flight' mentality, people think with a greater clarity and pragmatism. It's rarely the case of 'I have to get there, sod everyone else.'Thinking about journeys I frequently do, I expect that I coujld reasonably safely average 10-15mph faster as an average speed, but no more than that. That isn't going to make much difference in any scenario, so even those modest extra risks are probably not worth it.
We've all used the line when justifying to the wife why we need a 170mph car... "it's incase of an emergency"
So far i've not needed to VMax the M4, and hopefully won't have to on public roads ....but its reassuring knowing you have something that will get you point A to point B quickly if the worse does happen.
So far i've not needed to VMax the M4, and hopefully won't have to on public roads ....but its reassuring knowing you have something that will get you point A to point B quickly if the worse does happen.
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