RE: Golf GTI Clubsport S 'ring record

RE: Golf GTI Clubsport S 'ring record

Thursday 5th May 2016

Golf GTI Clubsport S 'ring record [+ vid]

PH Exclusive: VW Golf GTI Clubsport S sets new 7min 49sec front-wheel drive Nordschleife record



Just when you thought it was finished! Seemingly undeterred by the general sense of apathy at the SEAT/Honda/Renault Nurburgring lap saga, VW has now waded in with its new benchmark: the Golf GTI Clubsport S.

Some 40th birthday present!
Some 40th birthday present!
Naturally there are many numbers surrounding this car, but we'll start with the most important: 7min 49.21sec. That's the Nordschleife lap time VW is claiming, beating the pre-production Civic Type R by just under a second and the Megane Trophy-R - the current production car record holder - by five seconds. Moreover, just in case there wasn't enough confusion about where SEAT sits in the VW hierarchy, that leaves the Leon Cupra as the slowest of the four and comprehensively beaten by the closely related Golf. Hmm.

Having been invited by Volkswagen to see this Golf Clubsport S a few weeks back, the event didn't quite go to plan. On that day at the Nurburgring in March, the weather wasn't going to allow for a sub-eight lap in a Golf. Obviously it would have been nice to witness the record broken, but we did at least get a detailed look around the car as well as a slightly more sedate passenger lap.

Influence of this plays a part...
Influence of this plays a part...
Tool for the job
First things first, the Clubsport S is not quite a Trophy-R style hot hatch. Sitting in VW's garage close to the circuit it's still recognisably a Golf GTI, not stickered up or hunkered down in true 'ring warrior fashion. There won't be much doubt once it's on track though, the Clubsport S lap more than 36 seconds faster than VW's claim for a Golf GTI Performance at the 'ring...

Peer a little closer you can see this isn't just a GTI. The tyres are Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2s, optional on the standard Clubsport Edition 40 but standard for the S. There are no rear seats either; the S will absolutely be sold as a two-seater, but only with a rear strut brace and not with the roll cage or harnesses seen here. Is it fair to sell a record car without the exact equipment used to achieve it? Discuss...

VW hand Leuchter confers with R&D boss Schebsdat
VW hand Leuchter confers with R&D boss Schebsdat
Ditching the seats contributes to a weight saving of around 30kg (along with less sound insulation, no rear parcel shelf and a smaller battery), but more significant to an increase in performance is a power boost. The Clubsport S produces 310hp, up 45hp on the regular Clubsport, as well as 280lb ft. Moreover, the 310hp is a fixed figure, rather than with the transient overboost. The gain comes through a remap and a freer-flowing, larger (and louder) exhaust. The vital stats alongside that time are 62mph in 5.8 seconds, 164mph and a DIN unladen kerbweight of 1,285kg. Add the 75kg required for an EU unladen weight and that's 1,360kg.

Manual labour
Gearbox? Manual and manual only, VW citing it as the enthusiast's choice and of course lighter than the dual-clutch alternative. Brakes are little changed from standard, with only upgraded pads at each corner and thicker front discs. The Brembo upgrade used on the Leon isn't offered here.

No corners cut ... OK, possibly a few
No corners cut ... OK, possibly a few
Arguably even more interesting though are the changes you can't see and their contribution to that staggering lap. Handily, both Prof Dr Stefan Gies (VW's Head of Chassis Development) and Karsten Schebsdat (Head of Car Chassis Tuning) are available at the 'ring to talk through the changes. The latter is particularly interesting, notable points in his career including very direct influence over the dynamics of the 997.II GT3, GT3 RS and GT2 RS. And the GT3 RS 4.0. He knows what he's doing, put it that way.

He describes the challenge of a FWD 'ring record car as a "very important task. It's not easy but it is a very nice task." The main issues are of course dealing with the bumps as well as the high speed bends of the Nordschleife, this addressed in the Clubsport S with a 'Nurburgring setting' in the drive profiles; actually it's the Individual preset (featuring alongside Comfort, Normal and Race), but Schebsdat says that's the setting for bumpy race tracks. To that end it makes the DCC adaptive dampers quite supple, which should help in the UK. It sets the engine response, noise and steering to Race also. Gies adds that making it fast on a circuit like Hockenheim would be comparatively easy, but that the car would be so stiff it would be compromised the road. Interestingly, he says that not a lot has been changed to make the Clubsport S fast at the 'ring, but also that this remains an everyday car, albeit with "some compromises."

It all passes in a blur
It all passes in a blur
All in the timing
And why are they doing it now? Naturally the 40th anniversary of the GTI is a key factor but, as a man who considers the 'ring his local track, Gies has some personal ambition here too. "I want to be able as VW to give the customers who want to go on track a VW, and not an OPC car or Megane or anything else," he says, firmly. "When I look at the tourist days, I see a lot of competitors and we would like to see more of our cars. I hope with this kind of car I will see this."

So what are those buyers in for? Well once the track has dried out, there's a passenger lap with Benny Leuchter too; it's not close to 7min 49sec, but there's enough to get some impressions. The damping, as suggested, stands out as excellent. It's plenty absorbent enough in compression, taking the very worst the kerbs can do, but also supremely controlled in rebound, meaning the driver can jump straight back on the power knowing that the wheels are on the ground. Through Hatzenbach in particular, Leuchter's style is similar to that of Tommi Makinen's in that Impreza lap, hammering over kerbs as fast he dares. Unconventional, yes, but it is fast!

And here's the one you can buy!
And here's the one you can buy!
Elsewhere the geometry changes have aimed to make the S more neutral, without any time-sapping oversteer into and through the quicker bends. And despite the best attempts of the coldest, greasiest section in the forest, the Golf did seem fairly predictable in its behaviour. Combining those Michelin tyres with additional negative camber at the front appears to make for an incredibly sharp turn in too. Should you wish to put all that to the test, VW says the ESC can be fully disabled, which isn't possible in the standard GTI.

Out of the hot SEAT
Out of corners it behaves much like a Sub8 Leon, albeit with seemingly even less delay between throttle application and tarmac being consumed. The understeer before the VAQ diff is fully active remains, but its window seems smaller than ever before. And even compared to a very potent SEAT, it feels noticeably quicker. Sounds great, too, all angry turbo whooshes and exhaust blare.

Debate will continue as to the validity of 'ring times and the playing field on which they're judged, but there seems little doubt the GTI Clubsport S is going to be some hot hatch. Hopefully this will be the car to appease those for whom the Edition 40 didn't really appear a fitting celebration of the GTI's big birthday. VW will make 400, with the UK expected to be the biggest market. The three original Golf GTI colours will be offered: Tornado Red, Pure White and Deep Black Pearl Effect. As for a price, the final figure is still being settled on we're told; but given that a Clubsport can easily nudge £35,000 with the right options, is it ridiculous to think the real Edition 40 car could be £40,000?

VW promo film

The lap

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

   
   
   
   
   
   
Author
Discussion

MrBarry123

Original Poster:

6,025 posts

120 months

Tuesday 3rd May 2016
quotequote all
Love it. Love it. Love it.

1 second off the M3 GTS!

Very impressive.

Cupramax

10,469 posts

251 months

Tuesday 3rd May 2016
quotequote all
Does anyone really give a st how fast certain shopping hatch goes round the ring?

Meridius

1,608 posts

151 months

Tuesday 3rd May 2016
quotequote all
Clubsport S is what the Clubsport should have always been. But fairplay VW for stacking up the Clubsport orders and then coming out with the S right afterwards laugh

Nurburgring lap record? Just for bragging rights really, but good bragging rights it is smile

RumbleOfThunder

3,546 posts

202 months

Tuesday 3rd May 2016
quotequote all
A 2 seat hot hatch. Congrats VW on missing the point of what makes these cars appealing, their practicality. Oh and yet another lap record with a car not representative of what'll be in showrooms.

GrumpyTwig

3,354 posts

156 months

Tuesday 3rd May 2016
quotequote all
RumbleOfThunder said:
A 2 seat hot hatch. Congrats VW on missing the point of what makes these cars appealing, their practicality. Oh and yet another lap record with a car not representative of what'll be in showrooms.
They've built a reputation on being honest and open to their customers.

EricE

1,945 posts

128 months

Tuesday 3rd May 2016
quotequote all
7:49 is rather impressive for a manual FWD hot hatch. They should have skipped the regular Clubsport, this car actually deserves the name. It being 7 seconds slower than the official 385 PS Cayman GT4 time suggests that it's quicker around corners than that car with all its sleek body and aero? Something does't add up there.

ZX10R NIN

27,490 posts

124 months

Tuesday 3rd May 2016
quotequote all
Meridius said:
Clubsport S is what the Clubsport should have always been. But fairplay VW for stacking up the Clubsport orders and then coming out with the S right afterwards laugh
+1 to that it looks like VW are learning a thing or two from Porsche's marketing department wink

40k is it a limited edition?

Also why are VW going on about a laptime when the car in the showroom isn't the car that can do the time? They might as well use the TCR car.



Edited by ZX10R NIN on Tuesday 3rd May 23:53

JoeMarano

1,042 posts

99 months

Tuesday 3rd May 2016
quotequote all
As a Renaultsport fan and now a VW owner I'm glad they have joined the party! Now bring us Polo Clubsport!

Escort Si-130

3,269 posts

179 months

Wednesday 4th May 2016
quotequote all
LMAO at being honest and open to their customers - you really couldn't make that up. remember the emissions scandal, or the (FAKE), Seat ring record of a car that wasn't even a production car.

I doubt this S version would sell much. It would probably end up being like the Renault Megane R26.R and hardly sell any. If anyone wants a dedicated 2 seat track car, they would be better off buying the standard GTI new and doing the mods themselves plus more for cheaper.

GrumpyTwig said:
RumbleOfThunder said:
A 2 seat hot hatch. Congrats VW on missing the point of what makes these cars appealing, their practicality. Oh and yet another lap record with a car not representative of what'll be in showrooms.
They've built a reputation on being honest and open to their customers.

veevee

1,455 posts

150 months

Wednesday 4th May 2016
quotequote all
Escort Si-130 said:
GrumpyTwig said:
RumbleOfThunder said:
A 2 seat hot hatch. Congrats VW on missing the point of what makes these cars appealing, their practicality. Oh and yet another lap record with a car not representative of what'll be in showrooms.
They've built a reputation on being honest and open to their customers.
LMAO at being honest and open to their customers - you really couldn't make that up. remember the emissions scandal, or the (FAKE), Seat ring record of a car that wasn't even a production car.



Seriously though. £40k, 2 seats, 0 reasons to buy. Plus I'd guess the strut brace renders the boot pretty much useless. A Golf isn't a 911, weak marketing idea.

Kawasicki

13,041 posts

234 months

Wednesday 4th May 2016
quotequote all
hmmm, what is the point? With the Nurburgring suspension setting it will probably end up too soft for UK roads.

diddles

446 posts

198 months

Wednesday 4th May 2016
quotequote all
RumbleOfThunder said:
A 2 seat hot hatch. Congrats VW on missing the point of what makes these cars appealing, their practicality. Oh and yet another lap record with a car not representative of what'll be in showrooms.
VW have designed the S model to be the most track focused, drivers car in the Golf range. It's not like there is a lack of other quick Golf models to choose from should you want/need rear seats. I cant see what point VW have missed here by making this a 2 seater?

Gandahar

9,600 posts

127 months

Wednesday 4th May 2016
quotequote all
Kawasicki said:
hmmm, what is the point? With the Nurburgring suspension setting it will probably end up too soft for UK roads.
Well lets see.

The more the merrier in this sector is what I say. However as mentioned above the Polo version would have been lighter, perhaps there will be one of those tied in with WRC and throwing a left hook at the Fiesta ST? The ST seems to be everywhere, the Polo would be more expensive but no doubt would also sell well if good enough

smithyithy

7,192 posts

117 months

Wednesday 4th May 2016
quotequote all
diddles said:
VW have designed the S model to be the most track focused, drivers car in the Golf range. It's not like there is a lack of other quick Golf models to choose from should you want/need rear seats. I cant see what point VW have missed here by making this a 2 seater?
Exactly, the GTi, GTD and R still exist.

This is clearly aimed at track use.

Renault and MINI have both made 2 seat variants of their hot hatches, both of which were well received.. There just seems to be a lot of anti-VAG on PH.

Hugh Jarse

3,486 posts

204 months

Wednesday 4th May 2016
quotequote all
EricE said:
7:49 is rather impressive for a manual FWD hot hatch. They should have skipped the regular Clubsport, this car actually deserves the name. It being 7 seconds slower than the official 385 PS Cayman GT4 time suggests that it's quicker around corners than that car with all its sleek body and aero? Something does't add up there.
If that is true I find it amazing the lengths carnuts go to.
Oooo a high power flat 4/6 with lower C of G and sleek low bodywork.
All seems a bit pointless if it leads to a @462s vs @470s time. @2% faster.

sh33n

194 posts

186 months

Wednesday 4th May 2016
quotequote all
Fair play for building it, but 40k on a Golf GTI, no thanks.

rb5er

11,657 posts

171 months

Wednesday 4th May 2016
quotequote all
Great....another car with a laptime that is not representative of the road car version. Pointless.

JoeMarano

1,042 posts

99 months

Wednesday 4th May 2016
quotequote all
Gandahar said:
Well lets see.

The more the merrier in this sector is what I say. However as mentioned above the Polo version would have been lighter, perhaps there will be one of those tied in with WRC and throwing a left hook at the Fiesta ST? The ST seems to be everywhere, the Polo would be more expensive but no doubt would also sell well if good enough
To be fair I'm mightily impressed with the Polo Gti I'm currently in. In fact it gets better the more I'm getting used to it. I find most of the reviews at the moment are completely Fiesta ST biased and even if it was the supermini GT3 RS everyone seems to proclaim it to be, it's a Ford. Probably 0.2% of its owners will actually go on a track with it which makes me wonder why they didn't just get a Polo, Clio or 208 which are far better road cars.

It does beg the question though regarding a "better" Polo where the regular Golf Gti will stand come it's next generation as even at the moment it's barely a step up from the Polo performance wise and it now has other Golf's standing above it or maybe as mentioned VW is trying to cash in like the clio and 208 did with more hardcore varients

Edited by JoeMarano on Wednesday 4th May 07:05

Matt UK

17,649 posts

199 months

Wednesday 4th May 2016
quotequote all
They gave it a manual gearbox!

Over the last 10 years the signs have pointed towards the manual box becoming a relic of a bygone era.

So when big manufacturers build their halo model with a manual, it gives me hope.

ZX10R NIN

27,490 posts

124 months

Wednesday 4th May 2016
quotequote all
Hugh Jarse said:
EricE said:
7:49 is rather impressive for a manual FWD hot hatch. They should have skipped the regular Clubsport, this car actually deserves the name. It being 7 seconds slower than the official 385 PS Cayman GT4 time suggests that it's quicker around corners than that car with all its sleek body and aero? Something doesn't add up there.
If that is true I find it amazing the lengths carnuts go to.
Oooo a high power flat 4/6 with lower C of G and sleek low bodywork.
All seems a bit pointless if it leads to a @462s vs @470s time. @2% faster.
It's true the Cayman GT4 does it in 7.42 what would be interesting is to see the laptime for the 2.0 718 Cayman & the new TT RS.

As they would all be in & around the same price range.