RE: Golf GTI Clubsport S 'ring record
Discussion
Never fail to be amazed by the number of people on Pistonheads who will read an article and a load of comments just so they can say things like "this is rubbish" or my favourite "who really cares?" Clearly you or you wouldn't be here f
k nut.
It's a relatively unremarkable car but people are completely missing the point. Think Mini JCW GP and Megane R26R. You wouldn't buy either of those expecting a practical hatchback for doing the weekly shop in. I have no doubt all of these will sell like hot cakes, they will hold their value well and i'd even be willing to wager that a higher percent of them will see a track compared to the percentage of GT4s, GT3s and GT4RSs that will see one.
k nut.It's a relatively unremarkable car but people are completely missing the point. Think Mini JCW GP and Megane R26R. You wouldn't buy either of those expecting a practical hatchback for doing the weekly shop in. I have no doubt all of these will sell like hot cakes, they will hold their value well and i'd even be willing to wager that a higher percent of them will see a track compared to the percentage of GT4s, GT3s and GT4RSs that will see one.
Mini JCW GP and Megane R26, yep I'd stick them in the pointless category with this. Don't get me wrong I am sure they are great in their own right and I know both have their fans but I just don't get the logic of buying a practical hot hatch with 2 seats removed so that I can take it on track.
Why not buy a dedicated two seater that is more appropriate to the task. I'd take an Exige\Elise long before I considered any of these 3 as a track toy. Same practicality, looks better, mid engine, rear wheel drive and lighter.
Why not buy a dedicated two seater that is more appropriate to the task. I'd take an Exige\Elise long before I considered any of these 3 as a track toy. Same practicality, looks better, mid engine, rear wheel drive and lighter.
Hamma said:
nickfrog said:
I find it quite awesome and demanding but I am a fairly poor track driver. Quite happy if that makes me a 8-year old level moron, not that I understand what that is.
And then VW marketing machine trying to wow 8-year-old-level morons with omg look at how serious and professional we are as we prepare by analysing the ring with this map and the driver visualising himself steering around it'! "Look Hans, which way do you steer on this corner?" Hilarious!
nickfrog said:
You clearly don't know the place then. For starters, those photos are on TF - not compulsory, just try a DN events TD (for instance). Besides, most TF evenings are quite empty anyway. I can't believe you posted a pic of that AX, you clearly don't know the story behind it. It would make any driving enthusiast stop and admire the accomplishment, irrespective of age. Many seasoned racing drivers need a LOT of advice at the Ring, as most of them have never driven it. I know a few. That photo is quite symptomatic of the place's particular requirements. I have seen similar scenes there.
Quite, the AX story is brilliant, wasn't it something like 130 laps and 6 years to get it under 10 mins whilst almost constantly blowing engines and gearboxes, I forget the numbers - but it was quite an achievement!Guvernator said:
Mini JCW GP and Megane R26, yep I'd stick them in the pointless category with this. Don't get me wrong I am sure they are great in their own right and I know both have their fans but I just don't get the logic of buying a practical hot hatch with 2 seats removed so that I can take it on track.
Why not buy a dedicated two seater that is more appropriate to the task. I'd take an Exige\Elise long before I considered any of these 3 as a track toy. Same practicality, looks better, mid engine, rear wheel drive and lighter.
Taking the rear bench out doesn't suddenly make all that space redundant. Despite the 2 seats they are still a hell of a lot more practical than all other 2 seaters I can think of. Try getting your Ikea MALM chest of 4 drawers into an Elise.Why not buy a dedicated two seater that is more appropriate to the task. I'd take an Exige\Elise long before I considered any of these 3 as a track toy. Same practicality, looks better, mid engine, rear wheel drive and lighter.
You are no doubt right about the Elise/Exige as it's merits as a track toy are well reported. However, i'm not convinced many other proper 2 seater sports cars built for the purpose at a certain price point are actually better to drive than the JCW GP or the Megane R26R (can't speak for that golf as only that bloke in the video has driven it). I'd take a JCW GP over many of the Cayman variants possibly only excluding the GT4 and the R. The GTS did nothing for me.
nunpuncher said:
Taking the rear bench out doesn't suddenly make all that space redundant. Despite the 2 seats they are still a hell of a lot more practical than all other 2 seaters I can think of. Try getting your Ikea MALM chest of 4 drawers into an Elise.
You are no doubt right about the Elise/Exige as it's merits as a track toy are well reported. However, i'm not convinced many other proper 2 seater sports cars built for the purpose at a certain price point are actually better to drive than the JCW GP or the Megane R26R (can't speak for that golf as only that bloke in the video has driven it). I'd take a JCW GP over many of the Cayman variants possibly only excluding the GT4 and the R. The GTS did nothing for me.
I wouldn't be going to Ikea in my track toy, that's what a real hot hatch is for but I get your point. I still think a 2 seater hot hatch is a very unique proposition. I'd put up with a little less shopping space in a car primarily designed to be a track toy if it meant the rest of the package wasn't compromised by high CoG, weight, FWD etc.You are no doubt right about the Elise/Exige as it's merits as a track toy are well reported. However, i'm not convinced many other proper 2 seater sports cars built for the purpose at a certain price point are actually better to drive than the JCW GP or the Megane R26R (can't speak for that golf as only that bloke in the video has driven it). I'd take a JCW GP over many of the Cayman variants possibly only excluding the GT4 and the R. The GTS did nothing for me.
Oh and I'm the opposite I'm afraid. I'd take a Cayman over a striped out Golf any day of the week, a proper NA one though of course, none of this new fangled 2 litre turbo rubbish. ;:
nunpuncher said:
Taking the rear bench out doesn't suddenly make all that space redundant. Despite the 2 seats they are still a hell of a lot more practical than all other 2 seaters I can think of. Try getting your Ikea MALM chest of 4 drawers into an Elise.
You are no doubt right about the Elise/Exige as it's merits as a track toy are well reported. However, i'm not convinced many other proper 2 seater sports cars built for the purpose at a certain price point are actually better to drive than the JCW GP or the Megane R26R (can't speak for that golf as only that bloke in the video has driven it). I'd take a JCW GP over many of the Cayman variants possibly only excluding the GT4 and the R. The GTS did nothing for me.
You can also park up a golf or megane anywhere and generally fly under the radar compared to caterhams etc. Bikes go easily into R26R...You are no doubt right about the Elise/Exige as it's merits as a track toy are well reported. However, i'm not convinced many other proper 2 seater sports cars built for the purpose at a certain price point are actually better to drive than the JCW GP or the Megane R26R (can't speak for that golf as only that bloke in the video has driven it). I'd take a JCW GP over many of the Cayman variants possibly only excluding the GT4 and the R. The GTS did nothing for me.
Guvernator said:
I wouldn't be going to Ikea in my track toy, that's what a real hot hatch is for but I get your point. I still think a 2 seater hot hatch is a very unique proposition. I'd put up with a little less shopping space in a car primarily designed to be a track toy if it meant the rest of the package wasn't compromised by high CoG, weight, FWD etc.
Oh and I'm the opposite I'm afraid. I'd take a Cayman over a striped out Golf any day of the week, a proper NA one though of course, none of this new fangled 2 litre turbo rubbish. ;:
I'd rather have a Caterham or similar instead of a Cayman if it was just for the track. If I had more money and a 911 was in reach I'd rather have a Radical as a track only toy. A proper track toy in the same price range is going to be faster than anything compromised like a Cayman. Oh and I'm the opposite I'm afraid. I'd take a Cayman over a striped out Golf any day of the week, a proper NA one though of course, none of this new fangled 2 litre turbo rubbish. ;:
nickfrog said:
You clearly don't know the place then. For starters, those photos are on TF - not compulsory, just try a DN events TD (for instance). Besides, most TF evenings are quite empty anyway. I can't believe you posted a pic of that AX, you clearly don't know the story behind it. It would make any driving enthusiast stop and admire the accomplishment, irrespective of age. Many seasoned racing drivers need a LOT of advice at the Ring, as most of them have never driven it. I know a few. That photo is quite symptomatic of the place's particular requirements. I have seen similar scenes there.
I know it somewhat. My point is that anyone can go there with anything. And it's not THAT hard to get some good laps there. Especially for a pro driver who has lapped there before. Let alone a car as easy to drive there like a FWD not-that-powerful hatchback on semi-slicks. All that marketing BS is ridiculous!Let's face it VW. If we wanted a 2 seater, we'd buy one a dedicated one, not some dull as ditchwater hatchback.
How any can think that this is a fair comparison is beyond words.
How about putting a Type-R on the same tyres and rip the rear seats out and you'd have a relevant comparison. (don't get me wrong, I wouldn't want the Type-R either)
How any can think that this is a fair comparison is beyond words.
How about putting a Type-R on the same tyres and rip the rear seats out and you'd have a relevant comparison. (don't get me wrong, I wouldn't want the Type-R either)
tankplanker said:
'd rather have a Caterham or similar instead of a Cayman if it was just for the track. If I had more money and a 911 was in reach I'd rather have a Radical as a track only toy. A proper track toy in the same price range is going to be faster than anything compromised like a Cayman.
I put Caterhams and Radical's in a different class again. Slightly controversial but they are so comprised that they aren't really proper cars imo and have more in common with bikes i.e. you couldn't really use one as your only mode of transport unless you were a bit bonkers.Clubsport announced and people moan its not hardcore enough. S announced and people moan its not practicle enough.
I think they have a model for both types of people. I agree with missing back seats from a hatch being a bit pointless but they are only making 400 and I am sure they will sell them all. Its pretty cool that they are getting in on the action with the Megane and the Mini that came before it.
I think they have a model for both types of people. I agree with missing back seats from a hatch being a bit pointless but they are only making 400 and I am sure they will sell them all. Its pretty cool that they are getting in on the action with the Megane and the Mini that came before it.
PaulJC84 said:
Clubsport announced and people moan its not hardcore enough. S announced and people moan its not practicle enough.
I think they have a model for both types of people. I agree with missing back seats from a hatch being a bit pointless but they are only making 400 and I am sure they will sell them all. Its pretty cool that they are getting in on the action with the Megane and the Mini that came before it.
That's the thing though, apart from the pointless exercise of ripping out the back seats, it really isn't THAT hardcore. It's a Golf with a remap, some performance tyres (and missing rear seats).I think they have a model for both types of people. I agree with missing back seats from a hatch being a bit pointless but they are only making 400 and I am sure they will sell them all. Its pretty cool that they are getting in on the action with the Megane and the Mini that came before it.
If they'd dropped 100kgs, given it some trick suspension, brembo brakes, forged wheels, a lighter snortier exhaust and 350bhp, without loosing the rear seats, then I'd be impressed.
Again I point to the M3 CSL as the perfect example of how to do a hardcore special properly.
PaulJC84 said:
Clubsport announced and people moan its not hardcore enough. S announced and people moan its not practicle enough.
It's almost as if they're aimed at different target buyer. 
If PH people didn't moan about a car they had no intention of buying in the first place, this place would be empty...
It's a mostly silly/pointless car that's only going to be bought by die-hard golf fanboys and/or collectors. Everyone else is surely better served by the leon cupra if they want to go FWD MQB VAG. BUT I think VW should be commended for doing it even though it's essentially irrelevant to most people. Irrelevant can still be fun.
Guvernator said:
Mini JCW GP and Megane R26, yep I'd stick them in the pointless category with this. Don't get me wrong I am sure they are great in their own right and I know both have their fans but I just don't get the logic of buying a practical hot hatch with 2 seats removed so that I can take it on track.
Why not buy a dedicated two seater that is more appropriate to the task. I'd take an Exige\Elise long before I considered any of these 3 as a track toy. Same practicality, looks better, mid engine, rear wheel drive and lighter.
Because for the same budget it would be left for dead by aforementioned hot hatch - on somewhere like the 'ring being off the pace is painful as you are constantly checking mirrors and moving over to let people pastWhy not buy a dedicated two seater that is more appropriate to the task. I'd take an Exige\Elise long before I considered any of these 3 as a track toy. Same practicality, looks better, mid engine, rear wheel drive and lighter.
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