"Diesel VED could rise by £800"

"Diesel VED could rise by £800"

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Discussion

Olivera

7,065 posts

238 months

Friday 6th May 2016
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allroad one said:
May A6 Allroad 4.2 FSi with the DSG is already £440 to tax and £440 to insure so that's good news for me smile 30mpg from a 4 litre V8 is not bad, but 350g/km eek
£440? I think you'll find band M is now £515 or £540.75 if payed in installments.

Sway

26,070 posts

193 months

Friday 6th May 2016
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DonkeyApple said:
But these are just structures under which to run a taxation regime. And taxation works best by steering a large group into one zone through incentives and then clawing back those incentives plus a healthy premium by removing/changing the incentives once sufficient people are in and the migration has slowed.

I'm not sure it is more visible than in the taxation around motorists.

Edited by DonkeyApple on Thursday 5th May 09:46
Perhaps not as visible to most, but the incentivised move to owner operated Ltd companies, then the over 70k reduction in tax free allowance on dividends in one hit is perhaps the most blatant example...

Brilad

594 posts

188 months

Friday 6th May 2016
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DonkeyApple said:
That's actually an interesting question, in reality. Scientific papers from the mid 70s on all point out that the monoxides and particulates from exhaust fumes were the most toxic to humans.

Obviously the 90s and the turn of the century have focused political attention on greenhouse gases and impact on global warming. We are now focussing more on the relevant issue of direct health as most humans live in cities and the air quality can be signficantly improved and so the health costs fall etc.

But these are just structures under which to run a taxation regime. And taxation works best by steering a large group into one zone through incentives and then clawing back those incentives plus a healthy premium by removing/changing the incentives once sufficient people are in and the migration has slowed.

I'm not sure it is more visible than in the taxation around motorists.

If we look at the very recent war on NOx then what we know is that everyone was fully aware of these dangers and the health implications for over 40 years. We are only now paying heed because the migration of taxpayers to diesel has pretty much run its course and we are into diminishing returns and at the same time taxation needs to be raised in this area do introducing a reversal to migrate people back from diesel is logical.

Edited by DonkeyApple on Thursday 5th May 09:46
This is exactly why I am holding off on any sort of car purchase for the next couple of years. In the late 90s, I had a golf VR6, I did not do my homework and could not live with running costs at the time - my own fault but I then decided to go frugal and got a diesel.

OK - poor choice again, because within 6 months of getting that car diesel achieved 'parity' tax wise but yes - my mpg and insurance costs were a lot better.

But I still found the 'bait and switch' left a pretty bad taste in my mouth.

It's likely that my next car will be a small engine supermini, as white goods just for commuting.

I am very very nervous about making the move to an EV because of what HM Government did with diesel taxation.

They surely can't stomach too many people dropping out of paying this lucrative tax and I would not be at all surprised if they found a way to tax EV batteries - either by saying that there is a 'BHP equivalent', or simply taxing replacement battery packs once the cars get to that point in their life.

I don't see what more they can do to people who have an ultra frugal petrol supermini (?)

B.

skyrover

12,668 posts

203 months

Friday 6th May 2016
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RenesisEvo said:
skyrover said:
Euro emissions legislation vs the real world according to a dutch study.

Diesel emissions



Petrol Engines

Interesting data, have you got a link to the source? I have a few questions I'd like to investigate (test cycle and method, age of and how many/what types of vehicles tested, so on).
http://www.ecoscore.be/nox-why-and-how?locale=en

http://www.ecoscore.be/homologation-tests

JamesL91

62 posts

127 months

Friday 6th May 2016
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xRIEx said:
Not sure if serious. Do you want an answer to that, or are you able to work it out?
Serious enough. I know fuel is going to magically become cheaper, so to tax people who genuinely make a fuel cost saving driving a diesel seems bizarre. Personally, my fuel bill would double to around £400 a month. Granted, I am an enthusiast (as I thought we all were on here) so I do choose to drive a 120d coupe instead of a 1.25 Ford Fiesta. I don't expect anyone to care necessarily, just putting forward my situation as to provide a piece of the bigger picture.

xRIEx

8,180 posts

147 months

Friday 6th May 2016
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JamesL91 said:
xRIEx said:
Not sure if serious. Do you want an answer to that, or are you able to work it out?
Serious enough. I know fuel is going to magically become cheaper, so to tax people who genuinely make a fuel cost saving driving a diesel seems bizarre. Personally, my fuel bill would double to around £400 a month. Granted, I am an enthusiast (as I thought we all were on here) so I do choose to drive a 120d coupe instead of a 1.25 Ford Fiesta. I don't expect anyone to care necessarily, just putting forward my situation as to provide a piece of the bigger picture.
Serious answer: if it's more economical to drive a petrol car, change to petrol; if it remains more economical to drive a diesel, stick with that. Tax situations change, it's a fact of life - review and revise your circumstances as required.

k-ink

9,070 posts

178 months

Friday 6th May 2016
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heebeegeetee said:
k-ink said:
I agree with you 100%. I just used the latest media example of ultra selfish behaviour.
Ultra selfish behaviour? That'll be your average petrolhead, of which you seem to be one. There can't be much more selfish than being a petrolhead methinks.

And a petrolhead wagging a finger at others? Hmm, ultra selfish and ultra hypocritical too, imo.
You misunderstood me completely. If you re-read what I said you'll notice I was initially referring to the diesel drivers who remove a DPF. I've never owned a diesel. If I did I wouldn't be removing the DPF.

HTH.

mybrainhurts

90,809 posts

254 months

Friday 6th May 2016
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k-ink said:
heebeegeetee said:
k-ink said:
I agree with you 100%. I just used the latest media example of ultra selfish behaviour.
Ultra selfish behaviour? That'll be your average petrolhead, of which you seem to be one. There can't be much more selfish than being a petrolhead methinks.

And a petrolhead wagging a finger at others? Hmm, ultra selfish and ultra hypocritical too, imo.
You misunderstood me completely. If you re-read what I said you'll notice I was initially referring to the diesel drivers who remove a DPF. I've never owned a diesel. If I did I wouldn't be removing the DPF.

HTH.
The sanctimony is strong in this one.

k-ink

9,070 posts

178 months

Friday 6th May 2016
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I did say I was torn. I love cars. But I am also open minded enough to read about the effects of mankind.

Sorry, I know an opinion and debate is no longer allowed on PH.

mybrainhurts

90,809 posts

254 months

Friday 6th May 2016
quotequote all
k-ink said:
I did say I was torn. I love cars. But I am also open minded enough to read about the effects of mankind.

Sorry, I know an opinion and debate is no longer allowed on PH.
But are you sufficiently open minded to challenge the claims made by the merchants of doom?

k-ink

9,070 posts

178 months

Friday 6th May 2016
quotequote all
You mean scientists with data? Or should we ignore those and listen to a bloke on a car forum instead.

Sheepshanks

32,519 posts

118 months

Friday 6th May 2016
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Brilad said:
This is exactly why I am holding off on any sort of car purchase for the next couple of years.
I feel the same. For work purposes really need a decent diesel auto and usually buy cars outright, but sinking my own money into one at the moment looks like it could be bonkers.

Leasing has its issues and PCPs look relatively expensive if you've got cash kicking around, and paying them off takes away the residual safety net.


Edited by Sheepshanks on Friday 6th May 20:11

aeropilot

34,288 posts

226 months

Friday 6th May 2016
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k-ink said:
I did say I was torn. I love cars. But I am also open minded enough to read about the effects of mankind.
Why worry about it. The length of time the human race will occupy the planet is but a mere spec on the planet's lifespan, and within 2-300 hundred years of the last human expiring, there will be very little signs we ever existed on it for the next several million years until the sun turns it into a lifeless hot rock.




mybrainhurts

90,809 posts

254 months

Friday 6th May 2016
quotequote all
k-ink said:
You mean scientists with data? Or should we ignore those and listen to a bloke on a car forum instead.
Yes I do. Those blokes whose competence you trust without question.

Don't believe everything they throw at you. Have a dig into how the figure of 29,000 deaths came about. You might be surprised by the flaky science.

xRIEx

8,180 posts

147 months

Friday 6th May 2016
quotequote all
aeropilot said:
k-ink said:
I did say I was torn. I love cars. But I am also open minded enough to read about the effects of mankind.
Why worry about it. The length of time the human race will occupy the planet is but a mere spec on the planet's lifespan, and within 2-300 hundred years of the last human expiring, there will be very little signs we ever existed on it for the next several million years until the sun turns it into a lifeless hot rock.
Yeah, those pyramids have only just reached 190 years old, they'll have completely disintegrated in the next 15-20 years; that sphinx is well on its way.

aeropilot

34,288 posts

226 months

Friday 6th May 2016
quotequote all
xRIEx said:
aeropilot said:
k-ink said:
I did say I was torn. I love cars. But I am also open minded enough to read about the effects of mankind.
Why worry about it. The length of time the human race will occupy the planet is but a mere spec on the planet's lifespan, and within 2-300 hundred years of the last human expiring, there will be very little signs we ever existed on it for the next several million years until the sun turns it into a lifeless hot rock.
Yeah, those pyramids have only just reached 190 years old, they'll have completely disintegrated in the next 15-20 years; that sphinx is well on its way.
You'd be surprised at how much humans have maintained them in the past several thousand years....

When there's none left to do that and the surroundings......there will be very few man made structures that will survive beyond 2-300 hundred years through natural decay....and effects of the planet.

k-ink

9,070 posts

178 months

Friday 6th May 2016
quotequote all
Like a lot of you I often think about what car to get next. I only have a V10 missing on my Top Trump engines to collect. But I get a pang of feeling like a guilty tosser just for considering cars like that lately.

I think the only way people will change their ways is if huge taxation are used to control our purchases. As an enthusiast clearly that is a bit scary. But on a larger perspective it is probably the right thing to do.




anonymous-user

53 months

Friday 6th May 2016
quotequote all
Olivera said:
allroad one said:
My A6 Allroad 4.2 FSi with the DSG is already £440 to tax and £440 to insure so that's good news for me smile 30mpg from a 4 litre V8 is not bad, but 350g/km eek
£440? I think you'll find band M is now £515 or £540.75 if payed in installments.
£540 sorry

Blown2CV

28,695 posts

202 months

Friday 6th May 2016
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JamesL91 said:
rb5er said:
About time diesels were taxed off the streets. Filthy diesel fumes everywhere these days.
What about those of us who make a genuine saving driving a diesel car? (The difference between visiting my girlfriend and saving for a mortgage deposit or only choosing one of those things). Or is petrol going to magically become cheaper?
nope, diesel and diesel cars are going to get more expensive. Kind of the point of this thread.

heebeegeetee

28,590 posts

247 months

Saturday 7th May 2016
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Blown2CV said:
nope, diesel and diesel cars are going to get more expensive. Kind of the point of this thread.
It's all going up, isn't it? Next year my £30pa petrol car goes to £140. The increase for my diesel is much less, I believe.