"Diesel VED could rise by £800"

[xjay1337]

I'm sorry, but you can't blame diesel owners.

The GOVERNMENT decided to tax cars based on their CO2 emissions.
not NOX. not particulate. CO2.

company car owners already had to pay extra % based on it being a diesel anyway.
But the cars do genuinely produce fewer CO2 than equivalent petrols - at least was true 5-15 years ago.

Since the turn of the decade I think we have seen petrol engine (and engine design overall) come a long way - so there are fewer cases of needing to buy a diesel for example.

But I can't see how you can go from charging a car which was previously £30 per year to £100 or even more...

We are already taxed through the eyeballs of fuel. We pay fuel duty TAX and then value added TAX on top of that original TAX.

I do not think electric cars are the answer - I am one of the few (?) who believe in Hydrogen being the way forward.
But the Governments want to try and back track on the decisions that have been made over the last 10, 20, 30 years....

I am already frustrated if you own a 2006 Golf Mk5 R32, you pay £250 a year to tax it... if you own a 2006 onwards model, you pay double that.... I am sorry but on what planet does that make any sense what so ever.

[300bhp/ton]

There must be another angle on this emissions thing too.

ie there must be 'x' number of pollutants produced for every gallon of fuel burned.

How does diesel and petrol differ in this respect? Eg what quantity of pollutents for gallon burned.

Then factor in diesels do a lot more miles for each gallon burned. So what is the real amount of pollution per mile being produced by each fuel source?

[RemyMartin]

Container ships,freight trains,buses, HGVs, plant machinery, alot of passenger trains. All diesel and all will be diesel for the foreseeable future. Modern life wouldn't be anywhere as developed or progressed without the diesel engine. Taxing them off the road isnt the answer. Taxing all personal transport is and making clean efficient public transport is the answer.

Anything that makes people think twice about pointless short journeys that they could walk. Oh and the hysteria over DPF filters, wonder if people share the same views on decats.

[300bhp/ton]

RemyMartin said:

Container ships,freight trains,buses, HGVs, plant machinery, alot of passenger trains. All diesel and all will be diesel for the foreseeable future. Modern life wouldn't be anywhere as developed or progressed without the diesel engine. Taxing them off the road isnt the answer. Taxing all personal transport is and making clean efficient public transport is the answer.

Anything that makes people think twice about pointless short journeys that they could walk. Oh and the hysteria over DPF filters, wonder if people share the same views on decats.

You've obviously never visited anywhere outside a major city if you think public transport is the answer. Clean or otherwise.

If I had to use public transport to get to work it'd probably take 4 hours each way at best. Hardly feasible for a standard 8 hour working day.

And if you live in certain parts of the country, such as Wales, the Lakes, the Peaks or many other places. You'd know just how limiting public transport is. Making public transport cleaner will not solve the fundamentals that it is completely insufficient as a means of transport for a large section of the population and vast areas of the country.

[blearyeyedboy]

Hold on- it occurred to me that the shift in used car buying could be seismic.

Forget the diesels for a moment. Subaru WRX's that cost £140 pa to tax again?

Golf R32?
Cayman 3.4?
Nissan 370Z?
Jaguar XF? (Well, the 3.0 petrol one anyway)

Or even more oddball choices make sense too. Would Sir or Madam like cut-price tax on an Insignia VXR? Or a Volvo V60 T6?

Or will used car buyers not realise? Will they change their habits just in time to be hit by a tax U-turn again? Interesting times indeed.

[colin_p]

A think tank is just a substituted w away from what they should be called.

[caelite]

JamesL91 said:

rb5er said:

About time diesels were taxed off the streets. Filthy diesel fumes everywhere these days.

What about those of us who make a genuine saving driving a diesel car? (The difference between visiting my girlfriend and saving for a mortgage deposit or only choosing one of those things). Or is petrol going to magically become cheaper?

Get a smaller lighter car. Most of the highest mileage users in the uk drive big 2ton behemoths up and down the motorways with ~2.0L oil burners, which will achieve your ~50mpg sitting at 65-70. These vehicles are more often than not single occupancy. These are exactly the users who would benefit from a modern 1.4-1.6 petrol turbo which in a good ~1300kg chassis and correctly geared will be just as pleasant to slog up and down the motorway. With people downsizing their cars it will also create a better environment for the rest of us, how often do you see 520d's, E320cdis and A6 2.0 tdi's abandoned across multiple car park spaces or double parked like a prick on the street? Pretty damn often. Wheras with a small to medium sized hatch, especially with the size of vehicles nowadays, is far less likely to get in the way when it is driven by a prick through towns.

It seems to be an old concept that anything smaller than a family sized saloon will not be suitable for long distance driving. This concept needs to go away as with modern small hatch weights, wheel widths, fancy suspensions & tech it is really no longer the case.

[V88Dicky]

Crossflow Kid said:

Where's electricity come from again?

Steam?

[hora]

JamesL91 said:

What about those of us who make a genuine saving driving a diesel car? (The difference between visiting my girlfriend and saving for a mortgage deposit or only choosing one of those things). Or is petrol going to magically become cheaper?

Saving what? ££ or your lungs and health when sat in a queue of cars with everyone else. What would you prefer? Air quality is a big thing.


Saying all this we still allow airspace to become a international hub for the world...

[Treb0r]

Crossflow Kid said:

Where's electricity come from again?

Thanks for the laugh! Those are cooling towers... It's not "pollution" unless you're also worried about fog (and "chemtrails" etc etc)!

[rb5er]

mybrainhurts said:

How very hysterical

You find it funny sucking up all the diesel st when you walk through town centers?

I'm not seeing the funny side. Please elaborate.

Edited by rb5er on Thursday 5th May 08:04

[jmorgan]

Oh goody. Win win. Next to no tax for umpteen years and a cash insentive to trade in next year.

Wonder who has what ties to what industries in the think tank.

[anonymous-user]

Non story & will never happen.

[PorkInsider]

caelite said:

...how often do you see 520d's, E320cdis and A6 2.0 tdi's abandoned across multiple car park spaces or double parked like a prick on the street? Pretty damn often. Wheras with a small to medium sized hatch, especially with the size of vehicles nowadays, is far less likely to get in the way when it is driven by a prick through towns...

[Butter Face]

blearyeyedboy said:

Hold on- it occurred to me that the shift in used car buying could be seismic.

Forget the diesels for a moment. Subaru WRX's that cost £140 pa to tax again?

Golf R32?
Cayman 3.4?
Nissan 370Z?
Jaguar XF? (Well, the 3.0 petrol one anyway)

Or even more oddball choices make sense too. Would Sir or Madam like cut-price tax on an Insignia VXR? Or a Volvo V60 T6?

Or will used car buyers not realise? Will they change their habits just in time to be hit by a tax U-turn again? Interesting times indeed.

The change is only affecting cars registered from March next year, anything registered before then stays on its respective band.

[blearyeyedboy]

Jimboka said:

Non story & will never happen.

The diesel bit won't. The flate rate will for all cars.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/vehicle...

[mini me]

Butter Face said:

blearyeyedboy said:

Hold on- it occurred to me that the shift in used car buying could be seismic.

Forget the diesels for a moment. Subaru WRX's that cost £140 pa to tax again?

Golf R32?
Cayman 3.4?
Nissan 370Z?
Jaguar XF? (Well, the 3.0 petrol one anyway)

Or even more oddball choices make sense too. Would Sir or Madam like cut-price tax on an Insignia VXR? Or a Volvo V60 T6?

Or will used car buyers not realise? Will they change their habits just in time to be hit by a tax U-turn again? Interesting times indeed.

The change is only affecting cars registered from March next year, anything registered before then stays on its respective band.

Yup and its to be based upon the list price of the vehicle when new isn't it? The cutoff being at around 35K or something.

I think this means that a pre April 2017 5.0 mustang will = £540 RFL per year whilst a post April 2017 one will = £140 per year. Wonder what that will do to the prices of the older ones? and why would you buy one new until the new system kicks in?

[PanzerCommander]

Treb0r said:

Crossflow Kid said:

Where's electricity come from again?

Thanks for the laugh! Those are cooling towers... It's not "pollution" unless you're also worried about fog (and "chemtrails" etc etc)!

It is far more efficient to generate at that scale than it is to burn it in a car engine though, so the EV is still technically better for the environment in terms of local and national emissions. I am not sure how they fair when you stack up the effects from the mining and industrial processes needed to make the battery packs though.

[skyrover]

300bhp/ton said:

There must be another angle on this emissions thing too.

ie there must be 'x' number of pollutants produced for every gallon of fuel burned.

How does diesel and petrol differ in this respect? Eg what quantity of pollutents for gallon burned.

Then factor in diesels do a lot more miles for each gallon burned. So what is the real amount of pollution per mile being produced by each fuel source?

Euro emissions legislation vs the real world according to a dutch study.

Diesel emissions



Petrol Engines

[xRIEx]

JamesL91 said:

What about those of us who make a genuine saving driving a diesel car? (The difference between visiting my girlfriend and saving for a mortgage deposit or only choosing one of those things). Or is petrol going to magically become cheaper?

Not sure if serious. Do you want an answer to that, or are you able to work it out?