What Weekend Car - 20k Budget
Discussion
pilchard8 said:
Thanks for the suggestions.
I was considering a Cerbera/Chimaera and I was going to put on my shortlist but the lack of mechanical knowledge and possible big maintenance bills put me off.
I wouldn't let that put you off.I was considering a Cerbera/Chimaera and I was going to put on my shortlist but the lack of mechanical knowledge and possible big maintenance bills put me off.
Chims especially are simple cars. Bespoke looking interior and exterior, but gearboxes are either Rover or Ford, engine is Rover, I think brakes are Ford based. Which means most bits are cheap and easy to buy and largely mass market items anyhow.
Cerbera's are a little bespoke, but some common sense should mean owning them is fairly easy. Just make sure you know what you are paying for at any TVR specialists. Like all such places, labour rates might be high and they'll charge a premium for normal items, e.g. oil, oil filters, wiper blades and such.
The mechanicals should be fine. The AJPV8's seem somewhat less hassle to own, although a sorted 6 is meant to be very nice.
pilchard8 said:
Also it will be a summer car so stored out on the drive in winter and I read they dont like been stood for months. It could all be say say but the general stereotype of tvrs put me off even though the pros outway the cons. May have to ask in the TVR sub forum.
I know what you mean about the evo/r33 not been special enough but performance wise they would be similar in the straights to my supra and far superior in the corners due to my lack of driving ability and confidence in the supra.
Maybe on track, not sure on a road they will be. It's not as if you can get cars completely sideways on country lanes doing a Colin McRae impression.I know what you mean about the evo/r33 not been special enough but performance wise they would be similar in the straights to my supra and far superior in the corners due to my lack of driving ability and confidence in the supra.
And I suspect the Evo is a bit like an Impreza, hugely capable. But only really fun with driven at 9/10th's or more. Pootling about they are probably quite dull. By contrast a Lotus or a TVR are likely to be much more of an event, more of the time and even at low speeds.
If a TVR does put you off, then a Corvette will offer a similar sensation, but with the dependability and running costs of a Ford Focus. The Vette is a bit bigger and heavier, and not so raw. It also lacks the lavish interior. But in return it'll offer sorted top tier performance and 'just work' whenever you want to use it.
If you've not tried LHD, don't instantly dismiss it, it really is worth giving it a go.
I think I pointed out in another thread somewhere that the price of certain 2nd performance cars is way over the top currently in the UK, with a possible crash in the market on its way.
And this thread highlights why (in some respects).
In that usually people within a certain price range of performance car eventually will want to move 'up the ladder' to the next level, but if those prices are way beyond what is 'reasonable' then the demand will fall and the stack of cards will tumble.
So in terms of what is the next level up from a 400bhp Supra? ; I'd say stick with your Supra for the time being as they are more of a car than what you may think.
Have you thought about chucking a bit of money in to your Supra - taking it up to the 500bhp area?, may be a new paint colour, new wheels or some tasteful body kit - something to renew the 'love' ?
Back in the day I used to have a UK spec Supra running over 400bhp on what was very basic 'mods' (which were totally reversible back to stock if need be).
The Supra may be getting on a bit in terms of years and technology, but given the lack of 'next step options' within a usual budget to the next level (which in reality you'll be looking at the £40K+ budget), then it may be better to stick with the Supra - it is still a great looking car, solid engineering, reliable with good power and RWD fun.
For 'next step up', you are looking at 911 Turbo, R8, Jag XKR, Maserati etc. But the price these bracket of cars are demanding at the moment is artificially high due to people buying in to them assuming they will appreciate forever, as people are not able to sit back and make money in bank saving interest rates and other usual interest rate related investments.
Things may come to reality when BofE finally increases the interest rate - but who knows when that will happen?
(All just personal opinion of course).
And this thread highlights why (in some respects).
In that usually people within a certain price range of performance car eventually will want to move 'up the ladder' to the next level, but if those prices are way beyond what is 'reasonable' then the demand will fall and the stack of cards will tumble.
So in terms of what is the next level up from a 400bhp Supra? ; I'd say stick with your Supra for the time being as they are more of a car than what you may think.
Have you thought about chucking a bit of money in to your Supra - taking it up to the 500bhp area?, may be a new paint colour, new wheels or some tasteful body kit - something to renew the 'love' ?
Back in the day I used to have a UK spec Supra running over 400bhp on what was very basic 'mods' (which were totally reversible back to stock if need be).
The Supra may be getting on a bit in terms of years and technology, but given the lack of 'next step options' within a usual budget to the next level (which in reality you'll be looking at the £40K+ budget), then it may be better to stick with the Supra - it is still a great looking car, solid engineering, reliable with good power and RWD fun.
For 'next step up', you are looking at 911 Turbo, R8, Jag XKR, Maserati etc. But the price these bracket of cars are demanding at the moment is artificially high due to people buying in to them assuming they will appreciate forever, as people are not able to sit back and make money in bank saving interest rates and other usual interest rate related investments.
Things may come to reality when BofE finally increases the interest rate - but who knows when that will happen?
(All just personal opinion of course).
300bhp/ton said:
Cerbera's are a little bespoke, but some common sense should mean owning them is fairly easy. Just make sure you know what you are paying for at any TVR specialists. Like all such places, labour rates might be high and they'll charge a premium for normal items, e.g. oil, oil filters, wiper blades and such.
The mechanicals should be fine. The AJPV8's seem somewhat less hassle to own, although a sorted 6 is meant to be very nice.
What are you basing this on? Internet folklore? You don't seem to have a Cerbera, or any TVR for that matter listed in your previous cars?The mechanicals should be fine. The AJPV8's seem somewhat less hassle to own, although a sorted 6 is meant to be very nice.
300bhp/ton said:
Maybe on track, not sure on a road they will be. It's not as if you can get cars completely sideways on country lanes doing a Colin McRae impression.
And I suspect the Evo is a bit like an Impreza, hugely capable. But only really fun with driven at 9/10th's or more. Pootling about they are probably quite dull. By contrast a Lotus or a TVR are likely to be much more of an event, more of the time and even at low speeds.
I think the Evo would be a lot quicker than the Supra in every single way. If you had a 400bhp Evo on a pretty windy road the 400bhp Supra wouldn't know whether it was an Impreza, Evo or Ford Orion that WAS just in front of it. And I suspect the Evo is a bit like an Impreza, hugely capable. But only really fun with driven at 9/10th's or more. Pootling about they are probably quite dull. By contrast a Lotus or a TVR are likely to be much more of an event, more of the time and even at low speeds.
A few others I would suggest:-
- Porsche Boxster RS60
- Porsche Cayman 3.4S
- Porsche 996 C4S
- Mercedes SLK55
- Audi TT-RS (Absolute weapon with simple mods)
- Mazda RX7 running a LS3? like this
- Clio V6?
- Monaro / VXR8?
Tuvra said:
300bhp/ton said:
Cerbera's are a little bespoke, but some common sense should mean owning them is fairly easy. Just make sure you know what you are paying for at any TVR specialists. Like all such places, labour rates might be high and they'll charge a premium for normal items, e.g. oil, oil filters, wiper blades and such.
The mechanicals should be fine. The AJPV8's seem somewhat less hassle to own, although a sorted 6 is meant to be very nice.
What are you basing this on? Internet folklore? You don't seem to have a Cerbera, or any TVR for that matter listed in your previous cars?The mechanicals should be fine. The AJPV8's seem somewhat less hassle to own, although a sorted 6 is meant to be very nice.
.
Tuvra said:
What are you basing this on? Internet folklore? You don't seem to have a Cerbera, or any TVR for that matter listed in your previous cars?
I've known several people with TVR's and have done much research on Cerbera's, as they are a car I would like to own, although sadly I've not managed to afford/justify one.However if you disagree with my reasoning or points, then please feel free to post up your views or counter arguments to them.
Tuvra said:
I think the Evo would be a lot quicker than the Supra in every single way. If you had a 400bhp Evo on a pretty windy road the 400bhp Supra wouldn't know whether it was an Impreza, Evo or Ford Orion that WAS just in front of it.
I suspect that is a dis-justice to the Supra a wee bit.But honestly, who cares. It's a road, not a race track. There is no podium, no prize money, no glory.
But only the op can say if outright pace is the most important thing, or if it's more about the sensation and the journey, rather than how quickly you can do it in.
And it has to said, I doubt many people have the ability to drive cars to that level on the public roads. And it is arguably not the place to be doing it anyhow.
Boydie88 said:
Might as well go for a tuned VX220 Turbo... for the same price as an Elise you would have a near identical car with an extra 100 horses.
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/v...
Was gonna suggest a VX220 Turbo too, easily modded for a bit more oomph too.http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/v...
Edited by Boydie88 on Thursday 5th May 13:06
Corvette
VXR8
Mustang (especially if you can find a stage 3 Roush) or the 5.0 version
But if you can, look at this beauty! R33 GTR 580HP
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...
Tuvra said:
I think the Evo would be a lot quicker than the Supra in every single way.
Its not always about quickest.My car history is wide and varied having owned both Supra and EVO in the past.
Which is the better car?, from experience, the Supra by miles.
Sure the EVO could get you along a windy road quicker - albeit with no room for stopping if something was just beyond a blind bend - but for the fun factor, reliability, acceleration and corner grip, the Supra felt much more solid.
When I had both my old EVO8 and Supra (which I owned more or less side by side for a few months) they went to the Nurburgring on a couple of occasions. The Supra was by far the quicker/stable car on that track. Of course on more twisty tracks the EVO would have been quicker.
But "quickest" is only relevant for track racing, it has little relevance on the road.
Having been fortune enough to come in to some money, I've owned some expensive stuff over the past few years, and 'quickest' is not where I put my money. Its definitely more about the experience of ownership and driving and the connection you get when on the road.
I've just bought a Cerbera to go with my Tuscan.
Yes, they don't like being left idle for long periods but if only winter months and the occasional fondling they are fine.
It's more when they go for several years and only do a few hundred miles.
You've got to wont one but if you test drive either you may find your hucked.
Yes, they don't like being left idle for long periods but if only winter months and the occasional fondling they are fine.
It's more when they go for several years and only do a few hundred miles.
You've got to wont one but if you test drive either you may find your hucked.
I ran a VX220 for just under 2.5 years selling it in April of this year - obviously the VX shares a lot in common with the Elise. I really enjoyed having one and the drive was brilliant. That said when I was selling it I had a viewer who had listed after one for ages shocked at the reality of the bare-bones approach when he actually got inside it.
If an Elise is on your list then try get a test drive - you can then rule it out if you don't like it. And if you do, then you can start looking at which variant you should buy with your £20k!
Good luck
If an Elise is on your list then try get a test drive - you can then rule it out if you don't like it. And if you do, then you can start looking at which variant you should buy with your £20k!
Good luck
Thank you for all the replies.
Trust me Ive ran through the possibility of throwing around 10k at the Supra to get big power a thousand times. This would include 600 bhp, a fast spooling small single turbo setup, all features with the syvecs but at the end of the day it would still be heavy, still feel poor in the corners and only show bragging rights down the pub.
My Supra is tiptronic auto and ive never got on with it so that would have to change adding another 5k to the bill.
Ive owned the car 18 months now and for looks,power and noise I dont think you can get much better for the money I bought it for but i think its time to move on.
A TVR has always been a heart choice but then my head says get something reliable. I will have another look into them.
A mate had a VX220 Turbo but I never got on with the looks.
Will keep researching.
Trust me Ive ran through the possibility of throwing around 10k at the Supra to get big power a thousand times. This would include 600 bhp, a fast spooling small single turbo setup, all features with the syvecs but at the end of the day it would still be heavy, still feel poor in the corners and only show bragging rights down the pub.
My Supra is tiptronic auto and ive never got on with it so that would have to change adding another 5k to the bill.
Ive owned the car 18 months now and for looks,power and noise I dont think you can get much better for the money I bought it for but i think its time to move on.
A TVR has always been a heart choice but then my head says get something reliable. I will have another look into them.
A mate had a VX220 Turbo but I never got on with the looks.
Will keep researching.
Pilch, buy that rx7 with ls3, or a corvette.
You'd bloody love either one.
Or this: http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/l...
You'd bloody love either one.
Or this: http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/l...
pilchard8 said:
but at the end of the day it would still be heavy, still feel poor in the corners and only show bragging rights down the pub.
My Supra is tiptronic auto and ive never got on with it so that would have to change adding another 5k to the bill.
There is always the option to fit some upgrade suspension, gripper tyres, more aggressive alignment etc., which would transform the car in the corners. (There is also a lot to be said about driving style/technique on high powered RWD cars in the corners - progressive use of power, smoothness etc.)My Supra is tiptronic auto and ive never got on with it so that would have to change adding another 5k to the bill.
As for weight, if you add more power/torque along with the above mentioned mods, you Supra would feel much lighter.
My old Supra was a 6-speed and I would agree with you that a Supra is not best realised in terms of 'feel' if you have an automatic gearbox. So money spent on a good conversion would also transform your car.
It does sound a bit like a money pit when you add it all up to get the car you want, but it may be worthwhile given the limited alternatives on the 2nd hand market at the moment. (Especially if you are looking to take a 'step up').
Remember the Supra was very much over-engineered by Toyota, this shows in just about every aspect of the car, not just the engine. So if its reliability in a performance car that you are after then you are already looking down from the top.
300bhp/ton said:
a Corvette will offer a similar sensation, but with the dependability and running costs of a Ford Focus.
Haha, very funny.There is nothing mundane about an evo ix fq360. It really is a great car and offers plenty of thrills.
300 is your impreza the standard 212bhp? My RB5 PPP feels special all the time, from just looking at it to sitting in it prior to driving it when it puts a voice in your head to just go flat out everywhere. Its never boring even when just sat in the drive looking shiny.
rb5er said:
Haha, very funny.
That's the thing with Yank cars, they are very easy to maintain and run for the thrills. Always have been.rb5er said:
There is nothing mundane about an evo ix fq360. It really is a great car and offers plenty of thrills.
It's both. But thrills come from it's pace, not it's interior looks (or even exterior if you ignore the wing). And driving one at 30mph really won't feel special.rb5er said:
300 is your impreza the standard 212bhp?
It's not 100% standard, but not over modded. Engine was freshly rebuilt 8000 miles ago by API Impreza. It however isn't the only Impreza I've known or been in or driven.rb5er said:
My RB5 PPP feels special all the time, from just looking at it to sitting in it prior to driving it when it puts a voice in your head to just go flat out everywhere. Its never boring even when just sat in the drive looking shiny.
I mean no disrespect to your car, I'm sure it's great. But an RB5 is just a normal T2000 with some additional badging and trim items and the option of two Prodrive upgrades (one for power and one for suspension). It's largely the same thing as a UK T2000.And they are great if you are doing 80mph on country lanes, but very very boring and ordinary trundling round.
But maybe this is about perspective, if you are comparing it to a diesel Focus or Astra, then ok, yes they are way more interesting all of the time. But I guess I'm fortunate that I'm not. And compared to the other cars I own, the Impreza can be the least interesting to drive unless you are going out deliberately for a bit of a reckless blast. But even then it's still less fun than 3 or 4 of them.
I can tell by your comments that you have neither driven nor been in an Evo 9 fq360 nor an RB5.
I find both just as thrilling as my friends Cerbera and another friend that has an ISF and a Porsche 997 Turbo regrets ever selling his evo and loves my RB5.
On paper yes the RB5 is just a tweaked 2000turbo with lots of trim changes but they drive a fair bit differently and feel far more special to look at or sit in. All the little details add up to quite a big difference.
I find both just as thrilling as my friends Cerbera and another friend that has an ISF and a Porsche 997 Turbo regrets ever selling his evo and loves my RB5.
On paper yes the RB5 is just a tweaked 2000turbo with lots of trim changes but they drive a fair bit differently and feel far more special to look at or sit in. All the little details add up to quite a big difference.
swerni said:
rb5er said:
300bhp/ton said:
a Corvette will offer a similar sensation, but with the dependability and running costs of a Ford Focus.
Haha, very funny.I like them alot but struggle very much to think that parts, tyres, brakes, fuel, insurance prices are at all comparable.
Edited by rb5er on Friday 6th May 10:49
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