RE: Forest rallying in Wales under threat
Discussion
Drumroll said:
May come as shock to a lot of you but rallying in this country is not just about the World Rally championship. This hike if implemented will hit National and club rallying far more than WRGB.
So what's new.......National and Club events have been suffering for decades with ever spiralling costs and NIMBY politics....
generationx said:
aeropilot said:
Don't we all.
Got to thank the FIA for that though
The costs of "all over the place" rallying were getting ridiculous. Here´s a famous Toyota team shot with their vehicles for the Safari:Got to thank the FIA for that though
(my old motor club is still the only UK motor club to have ever sent a 3 car team to compete in the Safari
)generationx said:
You still needed a lot of support vehicles when the event was 5 days and 80 stages (end of Group B early Group A days). Right up until the mid 90s with the Sierras and the Escorts Ford had 19 service trucks for example (there´s a photo of that floating about somewhere too)
They didn't NEED that amount......but as they could afford to make the logistics of service easier by throwing numbers at it.....and the more you could afford, the easier it made it.....because there wasn't a restriction.It could be done with two vans per car plus one chase car, even at works level, and it was in some teams.
Interesting post, the worst damage I have ever witnessed has been caused by the massive plant machines used to 'manage' the woodland and I have never ever seen even the slightest attempt by forestry to repair the damaged caused by 10 tonne plus tracked vehicles to the forest roads.
That said I can understand that the roads need to be maintained to some degree, however the figures involved are alarmingly large and one does wonder to what level the forestry are looking to repair them.
That said I can understand that the roads need to be maintained to some degree, however the figures involved are alarmingly large and one does wonder to what level the forestry are looking to repair them.
Last time I went (2013), the biggest issue was the litter and general devastation left behind by the spectators. Highlights included 2 tents, a gazebo, several barbecues and a landfill site worth of rubbish.
Whether this is factored into the repair costs is unclear, but for something that's within our gift to prevent it must cost an absolute fortune to sort out.
While I accept PH is not the forum on which to play the environmental card, this must be a consideration.
Whether this is factored into the repair costs is unclear, but for something that's within our gift to prevent it must cost an absolute fortune to sort out.
While I accept PH is not the forum on which to play the environmental card, this must be a consideration.
Edited by Turbobanana on Friday 6th May 17:44
Turbobanana said:
Last time I went (2013), the biggest issue was the litter and general devastation left behind by the spectators. Highlights included 2 tents, a gazebo, several barbecues and a landfill site worth of rubbish.
Whether this is factored into the repair costs is unclear, but for something that's within our gift to prevent it must cost an absolute fortune to sort out.
While I accept PH is not the forum on which to play the environmental card, this must be a consideration.
Yes I can see that, it was given as to one of the main reasons that Yorkshires Dalby Forest is not used as much as it should be. It's unforgiveable and those responsible should be ashamed of themselves. I don't see that as a green issue, it's a matter of common decency.Whether this is factored into the repair costs is unclear, but for something that's within our gift to prevent it must cost an absolute fortune to sort out.
While I accept PH is not the forum on which to play the environmental card, this must be a consideration.
Edited by Turbobanana on Friday 6th May 17:44
One way or another it will get sorted out. If it becomes uneconomic to compete there, then it will happen elsewhere (or not at all).
I would find it a shame if people couldnt sit down at a table and discuss this like adults; why an organisation would look with such a myopic view is beyond me. There are wider benefits economically, and if those with the myopic view truly ignore those, then they ought to take a long hard look at themselves. Its all well and good to say "they're just doing their jobs", but thats ridiculous. People up the food chain know whats going on, and this is just deliberately kicking the can down the road to see how far they can get away with playing games.
Again, I refer back to my comment regarding adults.
If the event is lost, then there should well and truly be a naming and shaming of those responsible.
I would find it a shame if people couldnt sit down at a table and discuss this like adults; why an organisation would look with such a myopic view is beyond me. There are wider benefits economically, and if those with the myopic view truly ignore those, then they ought to take a long hard look at themselves. Its all well and good to say "they're just doing their jobs", but thats ridiculous. People up the food chain know whats going on, and this is just deliberately kicking the can down the road to see how far they can get away with playing games.
Again, I refer back to my comment regarding adults.
If the event is lost, then there should well and truly be a naming and shaming of those responsible.
If only there were other places in the UK that rallies could be run, places like Kielder forest, Scotland, Cumbria, then the event and the subsequent damage could be spread out across the country.
Hey, you know if the UK's WRC rally was spread out across the whole country, then more people would have access to it. You wouldn't have a million spectators trying to cram into one small corner of Wales, clogging up the roads.
You know, I'm surprised that they haven't done that before now!!
Hey, you know if the UK's WRC rally was spread out across the whole country, then more people would have access to it. You wouldn't have a million spectators trying to cram into one small corner of Wales, clogging up the roads.
You know, I'm surprised that they haven't done that before now!!
NRW can't be expected to subsidise rallying. That's not what NRW is for and it can't spend its money that way. If the organisers of the rally are going to argue that there is a wider economic benefit that justifies a subsidy, then they need to make their case to an organisation that is allowed to pay out subsidies.
ATG said:
NRW can't be expected to subsidise rallying. That's not what NRW is for and it can't spend its money that way. If the organisers of the rally are going to argue that there is a wider economic benefit that justifies a subsidy, then they need to make their case to an organisation that is allowed to pay out subsidies.
That is what the current #rally4wales campaign is trying to do. Personally, I find it hard to believe that rallying, even RallyGB brings in as much as they say. velocemitch said:
As I've said elsewhere this is emphatically NOT about WRGB
This is Pistonheads, there isn't any rallying outside of WRGB!The cost argument is nonsense in my view, I think it's more a case of NRW's Board not wanting noisy polluting rally cars in their forests and sod the huge negative impact that will have on the Welsh economy.
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