Unicorns we will never see the likes of again...

[Hitch78]

CS Garth said:

I'm thinking of cars that were unique products of their environment and or created to achieve a sole objective and it seems most unlikely we will see there ilk again.

To get the ball rolling I'd suggest

-Clio V6
-Evo VI (conflict declared as I own one so happy to take some challenge but I'd suggest nothing closer to the pinnacle of road going rally car has hit the road bar a 22B)
-BMW 320 Si - oddball engine

Over to you

What goes around comes around. There was a mid-engine Renault 5 before the Clio V6, the rally reps of the late 70s and 80s e.g. UR Quattro, Escort RS were the scoobys and evos of their days and many a family saloon gets the sporty treatment a la old Lancia with the Fezza engine, Lotus Carlton and even the new Alfa Quadriofrommagio with a 'reengineered Ferrari engine'.

[Hitch78]

300bhp/ton said:

Not saying we won't see them. But certainly more of a rarity. Proper rugged simple 4x4's, actually capable of real off road work.

They're just old fashioned cars. You're right, we'll never get old fashioned cars again!

[zebra]

300bhp/ton said:

Not saying we won't see them. But certainly more of a rarity. Proper rugged simple 4x4's, actually capable of real off road work.

Back on form I see.

[300bhp/ton]

Hitch78 said:

They're just old fashioned cars. You're right, we'll never get old fashioned cars again!

So what rugged off road capable 4x4's are there today?

Jeep Wrangler
Suzuki Jimny

That's about it. Neither utility biased.

None of the Jap trucks, certainly for the UK/EU market get close.

[anonymous-user]

300bhp/ton said:

Not saying we won't see them. But certainly more of a rarity. Proper rugged simple 4x4's, actually capable of real off road work.

Surely we see the likes of these all day every day? They are just pickup trucks, but old tech. They concept and target market of a Hilux, Warrior, RAM, Manfister and various other such things are exactly the same.

[Black_S3]

Can't imagine we'll see another rotary, so RX8...

[coppice]

Lotus Elan (MX5 apes it but weighs 400kg more); Ferrari Dino 246 (proof that not every Ferrari has to have a look at me , look !! shouty V8 and an excess of power) ;Fiat 500 (original ), Renault 4 and 2 CV (pared down to the bone ,fit for purpose, cheap and practicable ); Alvis TD21/ Rover P5B - classy British cars without pretensions to sportiness ); Porsche 912- just imagine , a Porsche without a flat six...oh, hold on ;Peugeot 306D - can't think of any later non turbo diesels.Must be some ?

And of course the Austin Metropolitan - possibly the most ill conceived and, without doubt, the worst styled UK car , ever. Or the Ford Edsel - and at least the Austin's nose didn't look like - ermmm, you must know what the Edsel's grille it did look like...Ill conceived may be the best way to put it.

[anonymous-user]

I submit this:


The mainstream large saloon. Ford seemed to have moved the Mondeo up in size enough for it to fall into the black hole that ate this segment of the market too. Can you see the market ever changing to the point where a 5 metre long Vauxhall with a 3 litre engine is something people will buy?

[300bhp/ton]

dme123 said:

I submit this:


The mainstream large saloon. Ford seemed to have moved the Mondeo up in size enough for it to fall into the black hole that ate this segment of the market too.

There are loads of large saloon cars.

[MJ85]

300bhp/ton said:

dme123 said:

I submit this:


The mainstream large saloon. Ford seemed to have moved the Mondeo up in size enough for it to fall into the black hole that ate this segment of the market too.

There are loads of large saloon cars.

I assume non-German.

Edit - I realise Opel is German, but I'm referring to Audi/BMW/Merc

[Hitch78]

300bhp/ton said:

So what rugged off road capable 4x4's are there today?

Jeep Wrangler
Suzuki Jimny

That's about it. Neither utility biased.

None of the Jap trucks, certainly for the UK/EU market get close.

Any Land Rover product, any Land Cruiser product, any of the off-road spec US pick-ups, any of the off-road spec Jap pick-ups. Loads out there, few on sale in the UK as we don't have much by the way of unchartered wilderness so going off road is not a big thing for 99.999% of the population.

If you're asking what's for sale that meets the specific needs of the tiny cohort that is the One Life Winch It crew then yes, options are few, but they rarely buy new cars for their hobby anyway so complaining that they're no longer for sale is a bit of a moot point.

[vtecyo]

300bhp/ton said:

So what rugged off road capable 4x4's are there today?

Jeep Wrangler
Suzuki Jimny

That's about it. Neither utility biased.

None of the Jap trucks, certainly for the UK/EU market get close.

So you're basically saying "poverty spec off roader"

That'll be a hilux then.

Or perhaps a unimog.

[300bhp/ton]

MJ85 said:

I assume non-German.

Edit - I realise Opel is German, but I'm referring to Audi/BMW/Merc

Well Opel as a brand might be German. As a company they have been American owned since 1929 and they build and sell GM cars of one description or another. So an Omega is really an American car. And it was sold worldwide under different badges.

That aside, there are loads of saloons. Jag, Dodge, Ford, Chevrolet, Cadillac, Kia, Lexus, etc etc.

[QuickQuack]

dme123 said:

Surely we see the likes of these all day every day? They are just pickup trucks, but old tech. They concept and target market of a Hilux, Warrior, RAM, Manfister and various other such things are exactly the same.

This might be a stupid question but WTF is a Manfister? Once I stopped giggling, I did google it but I didn't have the guts to click on any of the results

[anonymous-user]

QuickQuack said:

This might be a stupid question but WTF is a Manfister? Once I stopped giggling, I did google it but I didn't have the guts to click on any of the results

I admit, I made that one up but considering the "fragile masculinity" names they give pickup trucks it seems sufficiently homo erotic for the target market.

[300bhp/ton]

vtecyo said:

So you're basically saying "poverty spec off roader"

That'll be a hilux then.

Or perhaps a unimog.

Have you actually seen the price of Unimogs, not too mention they are somewhat rather more tractor than car. So not really in the same category as the vehicles I cited.

Hilux just no. Not enough off road credentials, not simple enough, too much wanting to be like a car inside.

[Johnny 89]

Perhaps large capacity Diesel engines will fade out when governments start to tax diesel more..

[300bhp/ton]

Hitch78 said:

Any Land Rover product

Have you actually been in a modern Land Rover product? They are anything other than simple rugged 4x4's.

Hitch78 said:

any Land Cruiser product, any of the off-road spec US pick-ups, any of the off-road spec Jap pick-ups. Loads out there, few on sale in the UK as we don't have much by the way of unchartered wilderness so going off road is not a big thing for 99.999% of the population.

Same with all of these.

Which of them offer a SWB rugged, simple 4x4 the likes of the Bronco or Scout? Genuine question.

Hitch78 said:

If you're asking what's for sale that meets the specific needs of the tiny cohort that is the One Life Winch It crew then yes, options are few, but they rarely buy new cars for their hobby anyway so complaining that they're no longer for sale is a bit of a moot point.

1. Where do you think used cars come from
2. I'm not asking, the op is. To which I answered with my opinion.

[Blayney]

coppice said:

;Peugeot 306D - can't think of any later non turbo diesels.Must be some ?

VW SDI engine. Fitted to mkv golf might be the latest...

[vtecyo]

300bhp/ton said:

Have you actually seen the price of Unimogs, not too mention they are somewhat rather more tractor than car. So not really in the same category as the vehicles I cited.

Hilux just no. Not enough off road credentials, not simple enough, too much wanting to be like a car inside.

A) you didn't say cheap.

B) are you having a laugh? On the farm I grew up on we had hiluxes (3 so far) as daily farm vehicles. Cloth seats. A tape player. The latest one (54 plate) was splashed out a bit on and had air conditioning. A set of mud tyres on them and they go pretty much anywhere. Got over 110k on it now. It's absolutely trashed. Dented. Poorly maintained, and keeps going.

Off road credentials? There's too many to list. Most recently (I think) going to the South Pole. Plus Dakar rallys. Trophy trucks endless rally raids blah blah etc.

Too much wanting to be a car inside. Heaven forbid the people that make it try and keep up with what year it is. The new features they advertise on their website are :

Increased towing capacity of 3.5 tonnes for UK market*

• Launching with 3.2 tonnes and increases later this year (please contact local Toyota Centre for further information).

20 years corrosion resistance
20% more rigid frame
New Euro 6 engine with improved refinement and performance
Tougher, stronger and more capable off-road
Longer, wider and taller than previous generation

Hardly intended as a school run carriage.