Unicorns we will never see the likes of again...

[Shakermaker]

vtecyo said:

300bhp/ton said:

So what rugged off road capable 4x4's are there today?

Jeep Wrangler
Suzuki Jimny

That's about it. Neither utility biased.

None of the Jap trucks, certainly for the UK/EU market get close.

So you're basically saying "poverty spec off roader"

That'll be a hilux then.

Or perhaps a unimog.

Great Wall Steed

SsangYong Korando?

[shake n bake]

Shakermaker said:

vtecyo said:

300bhp/ton said:

So what rugged off road capable 4x4's are there today?

Jeep Wrangler
Suzuki Jimny

That's about it. Neither utility biased.

None of the Jap trucks, certainly for the UK/EU market get close.

So you're basically saying "poverty spec off roader"

That'll be a hilux then.

Or perhaps a unimog.

Great Wall Steed

SsangYong Korando?

Duster commercial? Comes in poverty spec if that's your thing.

[ambuletz]

never heard of the 320si before but I absolutely love the idea. they really should do something like that with more cars!!

[EnglishTony]

[Jimmy Recard]

shake n bake said:

Duster commercial? Comes in poverty spec if that's your thing.

Crap towing limit though

[Checkmate]

300bhp/ton said:

vtecyo said:

So you're basically saying "poverty spec off roader"

That'll be a hilux then.

Or perhaps a unimog.

Have you actually seen the price of Unimogs, not too mention they are somewhat rather more tractor than car. So not really in the same category as the vehicles I cited.

Hilux just no. Not enough off road credentials, not simple enough, too much wanting to be like a car inside.

So a Unimog is a bit agricultural, but a forward control land rover is aok? Unimogs are luxury in comparison. I had a series 2a as my first car, you could have a bloody PTO on it if you wanted! So top gear taking a hilux to the magnetic North pole isn't enough for you?
Father has an l200 for the farm, it's amazing off road. I'm not sure how that isn't an affordable utilitarian vehicle. Whatever you are smoking I suggest you rein your habit in.

[jamieduff1981]

The Ranger is pretty handy offroad too. To be honest most of the current generation pickups are really good. Good wading depths, good payload, mostly >3 tonne towing limits and most of them have some control over their differentials for rough terrain and slippery surface driving.

The fact they happen to have good seats and climate control that works properly just makes them very capable good value vehicles you don't mind driving every day.

[300bhp/ton]

Checkmate said:

So a Unimog is a bit agricultural, but a forward control land rover is aok? Unimogs are luxury in comparison.

Still very different vehicles.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unimog

And a same era Unimog is no luxury compared to a Series 2b FC.

For the record, I drive this regulary. It is essentially a Unimog with a different body, are you really trying to say a Land Rover is similar?



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WF_trac


Obviously modern Unimogs are far more refined and computerised, just like the rest of the tractor market. But they are still part of the tractor market, rather than something you'd see at a regular car dealership.

Checkmate said:

I had a series 2a as my first car, you could have a bloody PTO on it if you wanted!

Check my profile, I'm reasonably well versed in Land Rovers.

Checkmate said:

So top gear taking a hilux to the magnetic North pole isn't enough for you?

Well lets be fair here. They took a Hilux, which was custom built and probably had £40,000+ spent on it to the North Pole.

Not really the same thing as a "simple rugged 4x4".

And if you note the first pics I posted where of short wheel base vehicles. Please show me where I can buy a short wheel base Hilux and one preferable with a live front axle.

Checkmate said:

Father has an l200 for the farm, it's amazing off road. I'm not sure how that isn't an affordable utilitarian vehicle. Whatever you are smoking I suggest you rein your habit in.

For going over the fields they are ok. But very restrictive front suspension doesn't really play for proper off road ability. IFS lacks articulation and flex.

The Hilux and other Jap trucks are also all long wheel base vehicles with Massive overhangs.

Try driving one through an obstacle like this, and you'll end up bending the bumpers, maybe even the rear bed or worse.

[300bhp/ton]

shake n bake said:

Duster commercial? Comes in poverty spec if that's your thing.

I like these. But they are 100% a soft roader by comparison. You need live axles (or very clever air suspension) for a proper off roader. And the big plastic bumpers and overhangs just are suited for something rugged.

They are more of a budget Freelander than a Defender alternative.

[Truckosaurus]

Black_S3 said:

Can't imagine we'll see another rotary, so RX8...

I still believe there will be a future for rotary engines as range extenders for electric vehicles as it suits their capabilities (small, lightweight, and economical at a constant speed).

[Adz The Rat]

Merc CLK DTM.

A normal road going coupe that has been attached with massive carbon arches and panels, wide track, carbon interior and seats with hardly any cushioning, sequential box and engine from the SLR hypercar.

Mental car, even more so as the convertible.

[West17]

Hitch78 said:

CS Garth said:

I'm thinking of cars that were unique products of their environment and or created to achieve a sole objective and it seems most unlikely we will see there ilk again.

To get the ball rolling I'd suggest

-Clio V6
-Evo VI (conflict declared as I own one so happy to take some challenge but I'd suggest nothing closer to the pinnacle of road going rally car has hit the road bar a 22B)
-BMW 320 Si - oddball engine

Over to you

What goes around comes around. There was a mid-engine Renault 5 before the Clio V6, the rally reps of the late 70s and 80s e.g. UR Quattro, Escort RS were the scoobys and evos of their days and many a family saloon gets the sporty treatment a la old Lancia with the Fezza engine, Lotus Carlton and even the new Alfa Quadriofrommagio with a 'reengineered Ferrari engine'.

Rallying has given us some great road cars through the years and hopefully these days will come around again. There was another thread on here recently and it seemed many agreed the disconnect between the current crop of WRC cars and what can be bought in the showroom is a big turn off. Even in the Group B days you could buy the "fully trimmed" road going car, if you had deep enough pockets.

Perhaps we shall see a future WRC based on production cars again - i.e. based on cars that you can actually buy rather than just having a vague visual resemblance.

Interesting that the much hyped new Ford Focus Rallye Sport is not actually based on or connected to the WRC car - which is a Fiesta look a like.

[SlimRick]

300bhp/ton said:

So what rugged off road capable 4x4's are there today?

Jeep Wrangler
Suzuki Jimny

That's about it. Neither utility biased.

None of the Jap trucks, certainly for the UK/EU market get close.

[Tuvra]

300bhp/ton said:

Try driving one through an obstacle like this, and you'll end up bending the bumpers, maybe even the rear bed or worse.

Why the fk would you end up in a situation like that in a 4x4?!? If you needed to travel through or work in extreme areas you would use a specialist tool such as a Quad, Ranger, Argocat etc, even farmers wouldn't be stupid enough to try and use the vehicle they use to go to the shops to try and get to extreme places. 4x4's with suspension like that are for silly men that like to intentionally get stuck in mud, no other reason for them.

Before you spout more bks, I'll add that I speak as someone who grew up on a farm and have my own company that "specialises" in accessing remote, off road sites.

[Truckosaurus]

Tuvra said:

... for silly men that like to intentionally get stuck in mud...

Indeed. Off-Roading for Off-Roading's sake.

I suspect that no-one in the last 20yrs has bought a Defender as a working vehicle in favour of a Japanese pickup because it was the better vehicle but because they preferred the looks or the 'lifestyle'.

[300bhp/ton]

SlimRick said:

Yes, they are nice, my Uncle had a red 3 door years ago. Don't think they are available in the UK and never as a 5 door that I've seen.

[300bhp/ton]

Tuvra said:

Why the fk would you end up in a situation like that in a 4x4?!?

Are you a moron (don't worry I know the answer )

I take it you assume to end up in a situation like that in a Caterham then??

Tuvra said:

If you needed to travel through or work in extreme areas you would use a specialist tool such as a Quad, Ranger, Argocat etc, even farmers wouldn't be stupid enough to try and use the vehicle they use to go to the shops to try and get to extreme places. 4x4's with suspension like that are for silly men that like to intentionally get stuck in mud, no other reason for them.

Before you spout more bks, I'll add that I speak as someone who grew up on a farm and have my own company that "specialises" in accessing remote, off road sites.

I grew up on a farm too, in fact the one where that Land Rover is, and that Land Rover is currently owned by my Uncle.... you know the actual farmer.

[300bhp/ton]

Truckosaurus said:

I suspect that no-one in the last 20yrs has bought a Defender as a working vehicle in favour of a Japanese pickup because it was the better vehicle but because they preferred the looks or the 'lifestyle'.

Lots of people do.

Most Jap trucks can't tow 3500kg and all are LWB. Not everyone needs or wants a long vehicle. I know and know of lots of Land Rover working vehicles in the area. Be it farmers, builders or something else. They are good practical vehicles, that generally ride better than the Jap trucks and are easier to maintain longer term and with much better residuals.

[jamieduff1981]

300bhp/ton said:

Tuvra said:

Why the fk would you end up in a situation like that in a 4x4?!?

Are you a moron (don't worry I know the answer )

I take it you assume to end up in a situation like that in a Caterham then??

Tuvra said:

If you needed to travel through or work in extreme areas you would use a specialist tool such as a Quad, Ranger, Argocat etc, even farmers wouldn't be stupid enough to try and use the vehicle they use to go to the shops to try and get to extreme places. 4x4's with suspension like that are for silly men that like to intentionally get stuck in mud, no other reason for them.

Before you spout more bks, I'll add that I speak as someone who grew up on a farm and have my own company that "specialises" in accessing remote, off road sites.

I grew up on a farm too, in fact the one where that Land Rover is, and that Land Rover is currently owned by my Uncle.... you know the actual farmer.

I think what he's saying is that these situations hard-core Defender drivers go in to are very contrived. In your own photos it's patently obvious that you picked the worst possible route around that "obstacle" to try to demonstrate a point. The farmer who owns the field that borders the south of my land drives around his land in a bog standard FWD 3 door BMW Mini One on road tyres to do almost all of his galavanting.

The thing about driving around fields is that there is always an alternative route to get from point A to point B, therefore getting a LWB modern pickup stuck on that mound you parked up on for your photograph is something that nobody actually does - because they'd take a 20 yard detour around it if they found an "obstacle" that would stop the pickup.

P.S. Land Rover doesn't seem to agree that live axles are necessary - they haven't used them in ages, and they still make the most capable offroaders.

P.P.S. Defenders are not unheard of where I live, but the vast majority of farmers are driving around in LWB base-model single cab pickups. Very few Amarocks because they're too expensive and have a high strung VAG engine, but absolutely loads of Rangers, L200s and Hiluxes drive around with mud up to the windows. You can tell us oily sorts because our pickups are double cabs with higher spec interiors and alloys in place of the steelies, but it's the same trucks towing big trailers full of sheep etc around all day long.

[otolith]

Truckosaurus said:

Black_S3 said:

Can't imagine we'll see another rotary, so RX8...

I still believe there will be a future for rotary engines as range extenders for electric vehicles as it suits their capabilities (small, lightweight, and economical at a constant speed).

Mazda is still working on rotary engine development, I don't think the RX-8 will be their last rotary engined car. Whether it will come to Europe, who knows.