RE: Alfa Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio Verde: Driven
Discussion
Well well Henry Catchpole uses the F word as well as Schmee.
The car is 'fun'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RFBx8lMLIE
chassis and steering feel to be decided upon when they get it on 'normal' roads however and not on a track... he seems fairly keen on it though...
Still... subjectivity is a personal thing...
The car is 'fun'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RFBx8lMLIE
chassis and steering feel to be decided upon when they get it on 'normal' roads however and not on a track... he seems fairly keen on it though...
Still... subjectivity is a personal thing...
Quickmoose said:
Well well Henry Catchpole uses the F word as well as Schmee.
The car is 'fun'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RFBx8lMLIE
chassis and steering feel to be decided upon when they get it on 'normal' roads however and not on a track... he seems fairly keen on it though...
Still... subjectivity is a personal thing...
He liked our Alfa Romeo too so he must be ok.The car is 'fun'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RFBx8lMLIE
chassis and steering feel to be decided upon when they get it on 'normal' roads however and not on a track... he seems fairly keen on it though...
Still... subjectivity is a personal thing...
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Imitation is the greatest form of flattery don't you know old boy.I've made no assumptions....simply drawn a parallel between comments made by reviewers at different ends of the experience spectrum.
Plus of course I've not said you're not welcome to voice your opinion or view have I? I'm just commenting that to judge without trying seems to undermine reason.
Equally I'm not suggesting it's the successful re-birth of Alfa either, or the defining car by which all others will be judged when it comes to driver feedback...but I'm not going to damn it either before I have a go in one..
Edited by Quickmoose on Wednesday 18th May 19:28
...Which you don't know for sure, but is otherwise only bleedin obvious to you and perhaps Kambites.... and given the Ferrari-based engineering talent involved...and the fact that Jag and Porsche have made serious improvements with their systems....
ahh whatever....
Perhaps we join a car based forum that stops discussing anything made after 1990
ahh whatever....
Perhaps we join a car based forum that stops discussing anything made after 1990
I don't really get your point? No-one is saying that it'll be a worse car for having no steering or brake feel; quite the opposite in fact, we're saying that it'll be a failure if it does because the target market simply doesn't want it any more than they want manual gearboxes.
If Alfa have got this right, the thing needs to be capable of pottering up and down motorways without the driver being any more involved in proceedings than absolutely necessary. Having the steering constantly chattering away about the road surface would make it a worse car for most buyers.
If Alfa have got this right, the thing needs to be capable of pottering up and down motorways without the driver being any more involved in proceedings than absolutely necessary. Having the steering constantly chattering away about the road surface would make it a worse car for most buyers.
Edited by kambites on Wednesday 18th May 20:42
Steering feel and servoed brakes are par for the course in this segment unless you go back 10-15 years but not everyone wants to drive older cars, especially as a daily. If you want to buy a modern car on this segment then you either put up with it or you don't buy one. I guess it bothers some people more than others too, I can deal with light steering and brakes bit I hate an un-charismatic engines and am starting to get really bored of auto boxes that make it feel like the car drives itself. Everyone has different priorities about what they find acceptable or not.
kambites said:
I don't really get your point? No-one is saying that it'll be a worse car for having no steering or brake feel; quite the opposite in fact, we're saying that it'll be a failure if it does because the target market simply doesn't want it any more than they want manual gearboxes.
If Alfa have got this right, the thing needs to be capable of pottering up and down motorways without the driver being any more involved in proceedings than absolutely necessary. Having the steering constantly chattering away about the road surface would make it a worse car for most buyers.
As an owner of "the last proper rear wheel drive Alfa before they became dressed up Fiats" I agree with this. If Alfa have got this right, the thing needs to be capable of pottering up and down motorways without the driver being any more involved in proceedings than absolutely necessary. Having the steering constantly chattering away about the road surface would make it a worse car for most buyers.
Edited by kambites on Wednesday 18th May 20:42
Now that Alfa have gone back to RWD everyone is queuing up to tell the world how wonderful the 75 was. But if you read the contemporary road tests it was s
t. Too tricky to drive compared to a Citroen BX or a Montego Turbo. Apparently. My 75 is hard work to drive compared to my sister's 320D which has similar performance but for me it wins every time as a driver's car.
Your average "driver" on the other hand, would hate the direct steering, pointy handling, gearshift that requires precision, noise levels and the fact that it's only drawing breath above 3000 rpm.
But then they'd think that about an E30 M3 too.
These days it's more about bar-room (or internet forum) cock-waving: 0-60 times, BHP and torque figures, top speed and how many gears you have, not what you get out of driving it.
Look at the Alfas of the past and they were never that fast, there were always faster cars out there, the one thing they were good at was delivering the driving experience. You felt like Fangio even if you were just driving to the shops. Even in a 1.2 Alfasud four door.
I can see why Alfa have gone the other way now, "drivers" these days just look at the numbers (and the Benefit In Kind).
kambites said:
I don't really get your point? No-one is saying that it'll be a worse car for having no steering or brake feel; quite the opposite in fact, we're saying that it'll be a failure if it does because the target market simply doesn't want it any more than they want manual gearboxes.
If Alfa have got this right, the thing needs to be capable of pottering up and down motorways without the driver being any more involved in proceedings than absolutely necessary. Having the steering constantly chattering away about the road surface would make it a worse car for most buyers.
I'm hoping the truth is not that clinical and that some feel is returned to avoid the accepted norm...If Alfa have got this right, the thing needs to be capable of pottering up and down motorways without the driver being any more involved in proceedings than absolutely necessary. Having the steering constantly chattering away about the road surface would make it a worse car for most buyers.
Like I said I'm not expecting or suggesting this is a 4 door Caterham, but writing it off or suggesting something as fact before driving it...thats just plain old fashioned stupid.
Quickmoose said:
I'm hoping the truth is not that clinical and that some feel is returned to avoid the accepted norm...
Hmm, I'm not because I think that would make it a worse car for its intended market. The last thing Alfa needs is to try to make a "driver's car" when the market wants a comfy motorway mile muncher (I'm talking about the Giulia in general rather than specifically the QV). If Alfa have made the car you want, I'm convinced it will fail.
Edited by kambites on Wednesday 18th May 21:48
you didn't watch Schmee's video did you... whatever you think of him he has driven many cars of quality..and he made particular comment about the QV's very progressive brakes...
Assuming Alfa has had to hit targets and compete with it's peers on the same level is rather obvious and easy to do...to make sweeping generalisations, again, without experience of the car, undermines the idea....given that those that have, have said quite the opposite...in QV CC trim anyway.
Assuming Alfa has had to hit targets and compete with it's peers on the same level is rather obvious and easy to do...to make sweeping generalisations, again, without experience of the car, undermines the idea....given that those that have, have said quite the opposite...in QV CC trim anyway.
Christ your argument is all over the place... perhaps caveat your caveats just to be sure.
...and yes my opinion comes from my experience of all the cars you mention... and more
I used to work as an automotive journalist, shortly after my career as a budding racing driver came to nothing which was a surprise as my education in engineering and physics had suggested I had much to give the sport. My father was upset being the development manager at Brembo...the one thing he said to me that I remember before his passing was "son, don't ever make a conclusion on a product before you have tried it..."...and then he was gone... he'd hit his head on the steering wheel on an over servo'd BMW prototype.... which ironically supports your theory...
Thankfully this discussion has once again gently floated down to the subjectivity level, where there is no right or wrong....ahhhh...s'nice'ncomfy.
...and yes my opinion comes from my experience of all the cars you mention... and more
I used to work as an automotive journalist, shortly after my career as a budding racing driver came to nothing which was a surprise as my education in engineering and physics had suggested I had much to give the sport. My father was upset being the development manager at Brembo...the one thing he said to me that I remember before his passing was "son, don't ever make a conclusion on a product before you have tried it..."...and then he was gone... he'd hit his head on the steering wheel on an over servo'd BMW prototype.... which ironically supports your theory...
Thankfully this discussion has once again gently floated down to the subjectivity level, where there is no right or wrong....ahhhh...s'nice'ncomfy.
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