Investment Cars

[anonymous-user]

As an enthusiast I can't think of anything worse to be honest.

Take that Clio V6 for example. What enjoyment do you get now that prices have jumped up so much? Stand in the garage and look at it once in while? Carefully drive it to get it MOT'd and the cambelts changed every once in a while (which costs a fking fortune or so I'm told) then carefully reverse it back into the garage? What joy it must bring.

[Terzo123]

stongle said:

Terzo123 said:

If I had the money and storage space,

Z4M coupe
E46 M3
Vauxhall Monaro VXR
Puma Racing
A standard low mileage Impreza turbo 2000
P1 Impreza
Integra Type R
R32 Skyline ( These are already shooting up in value)

You will not lose a penny on any of the above. And there's plenty others

How many of these in your garage? Aside from the R32, with US driven demand affecting supply all are representative of a bubble with no fundamentals. "Not loose a penny", boils my p*ss - especially with no skin in the game. Presumably with such surety you don't need an ISA or pension, or have you invested in a classic car EIS. Valuing cars and investing (at the serious end of the spectrum), references the macro outlook; aside from chavs buying these and smashing them to bits the risk reward profile here looks terrible (it's a punt).

If however you have a carpark full of such precious metal, I salute your investment cajonnes.

I've owned two from the list, but sadly other priorities and lack of space meant they had to go. If the opportunity arises in the near future, then I would happily buy one of the above and run it as a daily knowing that depreciation wouldn't be an issue.

[SidewaysSi]

I love threads about "investment cars". The reality is that whilst prices are rising, the running costs are rarely factored in.

Take the Integra R as an example. £4k will get you something with 130k miles or so and probably a bit knackered, needing rust treatment, possibly a gearbox rebuild and springs/dampers/bushes. Add all that lot up with tax, insurance, MoTs, new tyres etc. and you are probably looking at a £10k car or thereabouts. Is it really an investment? And even if you make a grand or so, is it really worth it?

[Guvernator]

Esceptico said:

A pox on all you aholes buying cars as investments and driving prices out of reach of enthusiasts that just want to own and drive them. I hope the market collapses and you all lose lots of money.

100% agree. Buy a car, usually one with racing\motorsport influence which is designed to be driven....and then stick it in a garage where it hardly turns a wheel. If I was in charge, anyone who owned a car which did less than 3000 miles a year would have it removed from their possession and given to someone more worthy.

[Tuvra]

SidewaysSi said:

I love threads about "investment cars". The reality is that whilst prices are rising, the running costs are rarely factored in.

Take the Integra R as an example. £4k will get you something with 130k miles or so and probably a bit knackered, needing rust treatment, possibly a gearbox rebuild and springs/dampers/bushes. Add all that lot up with tax, insurance, MoTs, new tyres etc. and you are probably looking at a £10k car or thereabouts. Is it really an investment? And even if you make a grand or so, is it really worth it?

Agreed, which is why I think that particular example was a poor suggestion. I think there's a difference between a "safe bet" and an "Investment car".

As a curve ball, I think a CLK63 Black Series @ £60k will have a good financial future:-

It would also have a place in my Euro Millions garage

[mickyveloce]

I fully support the view that a car bought purely for the purpose of cold-hearted profit is a miserable scenario.

However, when a car enjoys the gentle balm of appreciation through nostalgia, collectibility or whatever, it allows the owners justification to spend money on their cars, thus preserving interesting older vehicles for posterity.

That's what I told my wife when the paint shop bills hit the door mat for my two "appreciators" anyway.

And it worked.

[stongle]

Terzo123 said:

I've owned two from the list, but sadly other priorities and lack of space meant they had to go. If the opportunity arises in the near future, then I would happily buy one of the above and run it as a daily knowing that depreciation wouldn't be an issue.

Depreciation and investment are 2 different things. Running an investment as a daily, is a risky proposition! The cost of safekeeping and maintenance on many of the cars on the list - simply outweigh potential gains (IMHO). Far better to enjoy the car on minimal depreciation / minimal upside than expect significant asset growth (at least in the short term).

Whilst I too look back on my Max Power days with some misty eyed affection (and wouldn't mind another Clio Williams, R5 GTT or RS Turbo again), using it as an investment guide I'm not so sure on. Nostalgia can blind us to ubiquity / greatness (plus I'd rather see an RS Turbo on the road than stored away in a tent).

[The Beaver King]

I still maintain that these are going to jump up in price in the near future:






You'd have to find a low mileage one, turbo/manual/T-bar will be the one to have.

I keep looking at them, but I can't justify holding onto it for 10 years and limiting the miles.

[Tuvra]

The Beaver King said:

I still maintain that these are going to jump up in price in the near future:






You'd have to find a low mileage one, turbo/manual/T-bar will be the one to have.

I keep looking at them, but I can't justify holding onto it for 10 years and limiting the miles.

What makes you think that? What is so special about them against say an RX7, 300ZX, Supra, Skyline, 200SX etc of the time?

Genuine question BTW

[xRIEx]

Shakermaker said:

Porsche 996.

Get one, and do some home spannering on it if you can, probably net you a few quid.

Based on no personal experience as I've never owned a Porsche, but online prices seem to indicate their quite low now, compared to other 911s.

Already have, I think: certainly Turbo values have gone up £8k-10k or more in the last 12-18 months.

ETA: possibly more like £15k-20k upwards - a couple of years ago I was browsing them advertised at £22k, they're now up to about £35k-40k for similar mileage examples.

Edited by xRIEx on Monday 16th May 11:21

[EnglishTony]

If you regard the rise in value of your investment as inflation you are not gaining anything and to think otherwise is to be hugely self-delusional and highly gullible.

If you want to make money then restore a car or find a rare 1 in a barn.

Or find a self-delusional gullible pillock to sell your POS too

[The Beaver King]

Tuvra said:

What makes you think that? What is so special about them against say an RX7, 300ZX, Supra, Skyline, 200SX etc of the time?

Genuine question BTW

I'm not a 'Jap' expert, so bear in mind that it is just my opinion; but I always felt these were a little bit more special than their favored competitors.

4 wheel drive, 4 wheel steer, 280 hp for the turbo version, a good looking car that has aged well, a bit less 'Max Power' than the alternatives.

I've heard that the electrics are a bit of a nightmare and they have well known problems with the 4 wheel drive system, but something about them keeps me thinking.

[rodericb]

SidewaysSi said:

I love threads about "investment cars". The reality is that whilst prices are rising, the running costs are rarely factored in.

Take the Integra R as an example. £4k will get you something with 130k miles or so and probably a bit knackered, needing rust treatment, possibly a gearbox rebuild and springs/dampers/bushes. Add all that lot up with tax, insurance, MoTs, new tyres etc. and you are probably looking at a £10k car or thereabouts. Is it really an investment? And even if you make a grand or so, is it really worth it?

The thing with the cars which start to set the trend is that they are lightly used, for whatever reason, and they lead the way. People start to notice that, get a hankering for Type R Integra and jump onto the more ropey examples until you end up with people restoring cruddy old hulks. The lightly used examples pretty much stay lightly used (protecting ones investment you see) but your ropey thing, rebuilt back to its former glory as it is viable due to market values, gets out there and used. It won't pull the same dollars come resale. A slightly left field example is the Mac F1 and what Rohan Atkinsons well used example pulled versus some garage queen. It is a bit of a sad thing as certain cars are pretty much wiped off the face of the earth, not because they are smashed/worn beyond repair but because they are 'too good' to drive and risk the investment.

Edited by rodericb on Monday 16th May 11:26

[Tuvra]

EnglishTony said:

If you regard the rise in value of your investment as inflation you are not gaining anything and to think otherwise is to be hugely self-delusional and highly gullible.

If you want to make money then restore a car or find a rare 1 in a barn.

Or find a self-delusional gullible pillock to sell your POS too

The fact that so many cars have sky rocketed in price of late kind of destroys your theory.

I remember telling my mate in 2005/6 that I was looking at a Ferrari 550 (it was £38k, so £50k in todays money), now they are up at £110-170k

Many other examples out there that have already sky rocketed....

[JockySteer]

Terzo123 said:

If I had the money and storage space,

Z4M coupe
E46 M3
Vauxhall Monaro VXR
Puma Racing
A standard low mileage Impreza turbo 2000
P1 Impreza
Integra Type R
R32 Skyline ( These are already shooting up in value)

You will not lose a penny on any of the above. And there's plenty others

You won't lose a penny, but you won't make a penny (worth shouting about) either other than on an R32 maybe.
Particularly on the M cars

[JockySteer]

Tuvra said:

This. Looks like the ship has already sailed on these though - They've rocketed.

The CLK63 however, YES. Dream car

[EnglishTony]

Tuvra said:

The fact that so many cars have sky rocketed in price of late kind of destroys your theory.

I remember telling my mate in 2005/6 that I was looking at a Ferrari 550 (it was £38k, so £50k in todays money), now they are up at £110-170k

Many other examples out there that have already sky rocketed....

It's just inflation. Huge inflation granted but inflation nonetheless

[xRIEx]

EnglishTony said:

Tuvra said:

The fact that so many cars have sky rocketed in price of late kind of destroys your theory.

I remember telling my mate in 2005/6 that I was looking at a Ferrari 550 (it was £38k, so £50k in todays money), now they are up at £110-170k

Many other examples out there that have already sky rocketed....

It's just inflation. Huge inflation granted but inflation nonetheless

It's not inflation, it's appreciation. If an asset appreciates above inflation, you make money; if an asset appreciates at a lower rate than inflation (or depreciates at a greater rate than deflation) you lose money in real terms.

[Tuvra]

EnglishTony said:

It's just inflation. Huge inflation granted but inflation nonetheless

How is it inflation, unless I am misunderstanding something?

Price of car in 2006 was £38k, taking inflation into account that's £50k, the car is worth £100k+ in today's market?

I cannot see how that has not hugely appreciated

[EnglishTony]

Sell your investment, buy another. Can you get the replacement as the price you paid for yours 10 years ago?

That's inflation, not profit.