Investment Cars
Discussion
Shakermaker said:
Porsche 996.
Get one, and do some home spannering on it if you can, probably net you a few quid.
Based on no personal experience as I've never owned a Porsche, but online prices seem to indicate their quite low now, compared to other 911s.
And there is reason for that..Get one, and do some home spannering on it if you can, probably net you a few quid.
Based on no personal experience as I've never owned a Porsche, but online prices seem to indicate their quite low now, compared to other 911s.
I have just taken delivery of a very nice 1990 Renault Alpine GTA, 2.5 V6 Turbo. Looking at the stats, they made just c. 650 over a just few years for the UK in RHD, V6 Turbo, rear engined, manual and look uber cool IMO. Totally bespoke car, I'm hoping the V6 Clio and V6 R5 Turbo 2 prices are going to reflect in the GTA prices soon. IMO, must one of the performance bargains of the decade at the moment... Early A110 Alpines have gone through the roof...
The simple answer to this is pretty much everything "interesting".
The whole classic car / sports car market is on the up. Has been for a couple of years.
This thread kind of proves it, everything and anything crops up. Clio V6 to 911 Turbo.
So long as its fairly rare, sporty or collectable its going up at the moment.
I sold my old Escort Mk 6 RS2000 4x4 for £4k about 4 or 5 years ago (very low mileage). I thought that was good money at the time (I paid £3k for it a few years before).
They are £8k+ now for that condition / mileage.
It was crap to drive, sounded crap, looked pretty crap and was slow as hell. Yet people are falling over themselves to buy them or any other "old" Ford.
As a slight side track look at the military collectable vehicle market. £5-£10k used to get you into an interesting weekend toy with all the Gucci bits. Not any more. That £5k Land Rover is now £15k. £7k Scout Car, £20k now. Only talking 2 years or so.
Interesting times!
The whole classic car / sports car market is on the up. Has been for a couple of years.
This thread kind of proves it, everything and anything crops up. Clio V6 to 911 Turbo.
So long as its fairly rare, sporty or collectable its going up at the moment.
I sold my old Escort Mk 6 RS2000 4x4 for £4k about 4 or 5 years ago (very low mileage). I thought that was good money at the time (I paid £3k for it a few years before).
They are £8k+ now for that condition / mileage.
It was crap to drive, sounded crap, looked pretty crap and was slow as hell. Yet people are falling over themselves to buy them or any other "old" Ford.
As a slight side track look at the military collectable vehicle market. £5-£10k used to get you into an interesting weekend toy with all the Gucci bits. Not any more. That £5k Land Rover is now £15k. £7k Scout Car, £20k now. Only talking 2 years or so.
Interesting times!
Forgot to say, IMVHO, the key to all this is finding a car / toy that's cheap to look after.
Ferrari 355 is all well and good, going up like a rocket. But to look after one, you can easily spend £10k without even thinking about it. Its the "profit" after your running costs that's interesting.
Ferrari 355 is all well and good, going up like a rocket. But to look after one, you can easily spend £10k without even thinking about it. Its the "profit" after your running costs that's interesting.
red_slr said:
Forgot to say, IMVHO, the key to all this is finding a car / toy that's cheap to look after.
Ferrari 355 is all well and good, going up like a rocket. But to look after one, you can easily spend £10k without even thinking about it. Its the "profit" after your running costs that's interesting.
That is a big part of the problem if you actually want to use the car. If you put it in mothballs it costs less to maintain and for some bizarre reason such cars are considered to be worth more. There are a couple of Ferrari 328s for sale with fewer than 1,000 miles on (they are all more than 27 years old now) for just under £200k. But they probably aren't driveable without a lot of work. If they have 30 to 40k miles on them 328s are going for around half that.Ferrari 355 is all well and good, going up like a rocket. But to look after one, you can easily spend £10k without even thinking about it. Its the "profit" after your running costs that's interesting.
red_slr said:
Forgot to say, IMVHO, the key to all this is finding a car / toy that's cheap to look after.
Ferrari 355 is all well and good, going up like a rocket. But to look after one, you can easily spend £10k without even thinking about it. Its the "profit" after your running costs that's interesting.
I Agree, the best example of minimum upkeep and maximum return is probably the Clio V6, the yellow one for sale at the moment (with 61k on the clock) could have swapped ownership for as little as £12-14k, its currently up for £38k and probably cost buttons to maintain to the highest of standards.Ferrari 355 is all well and good, going up like a rocket. But to look after one, you can easily spend £10k without even thinking about it. Its the "profit" after your running costs that's interesting.
Many of the more modern appreciating cars wouldn't have been that expensive to maintain either when compared to "classic" Ferrari's. I remember seeing 996 GT3's down at around £40k, RS's at around £70k but they have since sky rocketed, they probably weren't that much to run either.
DoubleTime said:
The title and majority of discussion on this thread is based on the ever increasing fad of investing in cars, not how to avoid losing great wedges of cash on ruinous hobbies whilst hiding from a domineering wife.
Anyone that marries a woman with bigger b
ks than them deserves very little in the way of motoring enjoyment 
.Be very careful, the current ridiculous hype in classic car prices is fed by quantitative easing (money printing) and zero interest rates. There will be a day of reckoning (maybe this year) when the 2008 crash will look like a kids tea party and you will be lucky to hang on to your house, never mind your over inflated classic car. After the crash you will have your pick of the market (if there is any market left) for fire sale prices.
My advice (for what it's worth) is to buy what you can afford and what you want to drive and enjoy whatever the market does, that way you do not end up being the one with the egg on his face.
My advice (for what it's worth) is to buy what you can afford and what you want to drive and enjoy whatever the market does, that way you do not end up being the one with the egg on his face.
The real danger is buying somethin hoping it will appreciate and then finding that as its rare/low volume/specialist that there's no longer decent parts support. The historic vehicle associations are already writing about the dangers of ECU obsolescence and the threat that poses to many 80s onward cars.
It's not just weird stuff either. It's already impossible to get some parts for certain VWs and they weren't small volume
It's not just weird stuff either. It's already impossible to get some parts for certain VWs and they weren't small volume
The classic car market is certainly overheated for sure, but I do not think the crash will be as bad as the doom-mongers suggest. For a start the car market is currently at a tipping point where there is a shift away from the conventional combustion engine and there has been a long long shift away from manual, naturally aspirated greats too. These are the cars that will be the most revered in the future as there will never be any like it again. Yes there was a crash in the 90's but the market was not as overtly international as it is now and at that point we were mostly still driving manual, naturally aspirated combustion engined cars. In 10-15 years time, autonomous and electric cars will be widespread and we will all hark back to the days of taking a big petrol lump to a dizzy height of 8,000 rpm!
On the note of over-heating, you know it has reached that point when cars that were rubbish new are now banded around as being 'classics'.
Regards,
MyCC.
On the note of over-heating, you know it has reached that point when cars that were rubbish new are now banded around as being 'classics'.
Regards,
MyCC.
Gustavo7 said:
I currently drive a Z4 M Coupe.
I predicted a value increase and it seemed like a good opportunity to put 15.000 miles/year on it without losing any money.
A similar mileage car is £4k more than what I paid for mine last year so it was a good deal as it covers all insurance and maintenance costs.
I recently acquired a few 80s and 90s icons that I always wanted to have as a kid:
1984 Ford RS Turbo S1
1984 Renault 5 GT Turbo phase 1
1993 Renault Clio Williams 1
1998 Honda Integra Type R
The problem is: I do love cars and driving, and now that I have them I don't want to let them go??
That's a lovely collection of affordable classics mate. I've owned all those during various stages of my life and still own a Dc2 Integra Type R - I wish I still owned the others though I predicted a value increase and it seemed like a good opportunity to put 15.000 miles/year on it without losing any money.
A similar mileage car is £4k more than what I paid for mine last year so it was a good deal as it covers all insurance and maintenance costs.
I recently acquired a few 80s and 90s icons that I always wanted to have as a kid:
1984 Ford RS Turbo S1
1984 Renault 5 GT Turbo phase 1
1993 Renault Clio Williams 1
1998 Honda Integra Type R
The problem is: I do love cars and driving, and now that I have them I don't want to let them go??
Until interest rates rise (whenever and why that may be) people with a bit of savings will be tempted to think fk it I'll buy one of those appreciating classics everyone talks about and have a bit of fun.
So I don't see any crash amongst 'affordable' classics until that happens. And the mechanism that forces interest rates to rise is above my Economics O Level grade.
k it I'll buy one of those appreciating classics everyone talks about and have a bit of fun.So I don't see any crash amongst 'affordable' classics until that happens. And the mechanism that forces interest rates to rise is above my Economics O Level grade.
The only way to have a high chance of making money is market manipulation. I know a buy who's bought dozens of 550/575s and I believe he's single-handedly created the new pricing level on those things.
I can't prove it, but I believe someone started doing the same with TVR S series'. I was looking for one and there were consistently loads available. Then 6 months later, none at all. Like, none stayed up for more than a matter of hours.
Sadly there's no rule against this like there is in securities markets.
I can't prove it, but I believe someone started doing the same with TVR S series'. I was looking for one and there were consistently loads available. Then 6 months later, none at all. Like, none stayed up for more than a matter of hours.
Sadly there's no rule against this like there is in securities markets.
breezer42 said:
The only way to have a high chance of making money is market manipulation. I know a buy who's bought dozens of 550/575s and I believe he's single-handedly created the new pricing level on those things.
I can't prove it, but I believe someone started doing the same with TVR S series'. I was looking for one and there were consistently loads available. Then 6 months later, none at all. Like, none stayed up for more than a matter of hours.
Sadly there's no rule against this like there is in securities markets.
Similar thing happened with the M3 CSL and a certain few dealers snapping up almost every low mileage CSL going then whacking then on the forecourt for double the price. Lead to a sharp increase in CSL prices almost overnight. People go to jail for that kind of stuff in regulated markets. I can't prove it, but I believe someone started doing the same with TVR S series'. I was looking for one and there were consistently loads available. Then 6 months later, none at all. Like, none stayed up for more than a matter of hours.
Sadly there's no rule against this like there is in securities markets.
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