Investment Cars
Discussion
|http://thumbsnap.com/QqOokHTA[/urlFast Bug said:
EnglishTony said:
Appreciation is inflation.
It's the same with house prices whether the world's estate agents wish to admit it or not.
My house has appreciated in value faster than the rate of inflation?It's the same with house prices whether the world's estate agents wish to admit it or not.
405dogvan said:
Fast Bug said:
EnglishTony said:
Appreciation is inflation.
It's the same with house prices whether the world's estate agents wish to admit it or not.
My house has appreciated in value faster than the rate of inflation?It's the same with house prices whether the world's estate agents wish to admit it or not.
I have never believed in cars for investment as it always seems to me as being a version of the "greater fool" theory.
I have only ever made significant money on one car come selling day and that was because Enzo Ferrari had died and anything with a prancing horse on almost doubled overnight. There was no skill involved, just timing.
I bought a Defender 90 as training wheels for my son; the cost of cheap defenders has doubled in the last six months, but I have no idea if this is sustainable. It does suggest that fixing it properly is worth doing as I should at least get my money back from a sale.
I have only ever made significant money on one car come selling day and that was because Enzo Ferrari had died and anything with a prancing horse on almost doubled overnight. There was no skill involved, just timing.
I bought a Defender 90 as training wheels for my son; the cost of cheap defenders has doubled in the last six months, but I have no idea if this is sustainable. It does suggest that fixing it properly is worth doing as I should at least get my money back from a sale.
GarageQueen said:
For me its really sad this notion even exists!! How did our leisure/pleasure activity of buying/driving the cars we love get infiltrated by the 'commodities market'. Bol**cks to it all!
Very much this. Some greedy fecker out there currently has my future 964 RS sitting under a dust sheet, begging to be drivenMaybe if you exploit the market (buy a tatty/poorly priced car and sell-on) but OWNING a car will always cost you money (insurance, storage, maintenance, fighting-off depreciation, finding an actual buyer - all cost money)
Obviously some cars will soften the blow by holding value/being easy to sell (the latter being FAR more important than the former) but a lot of this idea of cars which are 'good investments' is based on hot air/myths/careful man-maths!!
Edited by 405dogvan on Monday 16th May 13:35
[/quote]
Got me thinking this so had a tott up
Purchase price £33500 12 years ago
Covered 22000 miles in that time
Insurance comes in at £6750 odd for that period
Maintenance all in (including tyres etc) just over £12000
Worked the fuel out as 90 pence a litre as an average price over the time period and 19mpg (miles covered / mpg X 4.5 X .09)
So £4234
So only thing not accounted for is valets really
Total £56484
Current values from 70k to 120k
Can be done not that it was ever intended !
B5 RS4's starting to go up strongly at the moment, good ones have gone up approx £3-4k over the last 18 months. Okay so not going to make you a fortune but it more than covers the running costs of using it as a daily drive etc. Expect they'll go up quite a bit further too, only ever 500 x in the UK, first ever RS4, Cosworth connection etc, etc.
Andy20vt said:
B5 RS4's starting to go up strongly at the moment, good ones have gone up approx £3-4k over the last 18 months. Okay so not going to make you a fortune but it more than covers the running costs of using it as a daily drive etc. Expect they'll go up quite a bit further too, only ever 500 x in the UK, first ever RS4, Cosworth connection etc, etc.
I don't think that covers the running costs of using a B5 RS4 as a daily drive, in my experience they are pretty costly to run and that's without a turbo going wrong. As the OP does not actually give any guidelines such as 'within X budget' or 'considering total costs of ownership'.....I'll hazard a guess with respect to cars which I reckon (uneducated guess) have only just, or will shortly, hit their trough before starting to peak;
1. Maserati Gransport 04 - 07 - pretty rare cars, and given that anything with a Ferrari badge has gone through the roof.....I reckon there'll be a rocket under these things soon. Not as nice as an F430, but at about 1/3 the price, its probably a bit undercooked at present. And as the owners will keep reminding you....'same engine as the F430'....
2. Merc R129 - SL500 - I agree with an earlier poster who also mentioned this. The R107 has already started heading north, but good mid-90 model R129 convertibles with both hard and soft top can be had for under 10K. Not ugly on the eye either. The 600's are already fetching silly prices....
3. Supra GZ TT aerotop - I've had 4 of these in my time. Sold most of them years ago at stupidly low prices. Oh I wish I had one now. Great car (for 1993) - and rare.
4. Mazda RX7 FC3 turbo 5spd coupe
5. Mitsi GTO / 3000 GT TT 5spd - agree with an earlier poster - these cars had classic lines, 4WD, twin turbo and - whilst not quite the calibre of the Godzilla, were a more enjoyable cruise car, and benefit from rarity.
6. Porsche 928 - guess that that's a bit obvious, and it's about 18 months into its upward price adjustment. Most prefer the 911....sure.....but hard to argue with paying 15K for a good S4 given this car's stonking wind-up performance vs 328GTS, etc
1. Maserati Gransport 04 - 07 - pretty rare cars, and given that anything with a Ferrari badge has gone through the roof.....I reckon there'll be a rocket under these things soon. Not as nice as an F430, but at about 1/3 the price, its probably a bit undercooked at present. And as the owners will keep reminding you....'same engine as the F430'....
2. Merc R129 - SL500 - I agree with an earlier poster who also mentioned this. The R107 has already started heading north, but good mid-90 model R129 convertibles with both hard and soft top can be had for under 10K. Not ugly on the eye either. The 600's are already fetching silly prices....
3. Supra GZ TT aerotop - I've had 4 of these in my time. Sold most of them years ago at stupidly low prices. Oh I wish I had one now. Great car (for 1993) - and rare.
4. Mazda RX7 FC3 turbo 5spd coupe
5. Mitsi GTO / 3000 GT TT 5spd - agree with an earlier poster - these cars had classic lines, 4WD, twin turbo and - whilst not quite the calibre of the Godzilla, were a more enjoyable cruise car, and benefit from rarity.
6. Porsche 928 - guess that that's a bit obvious, and it's about 18 months into its upward price adjustment. Most prefer the 911....sure.....but hard to argue with paying 15K for a good S4 given this car's stonking wind-up performance vs 328GTS, etc
liamthedude said:
I know its started already, but I think the Toyota Supra, twin turbo with a manual box seem to command higher prices, than other specifications.
They always have though. Even when i was in the 'scene' 5-8 years ago a manual TT was big money, a targa was more, where you could buy an auto NA for 30% of the cost. Stick an exhaust on it and to the uneducated it was the same car.Me and a friend were having a similar conversation at the weekend. Been looking at the RS4's and RS6's(v10), early 996's, Maybe even the 997 Carrera.
You can even look at the BMW fold, E30 M3, and E39 M5.
The NSX has gone up again too.
You need a car that has fallen a bit under the radar, made in limited numbers, maybe slightly over-priced at the time so it has limited sales, not just limited production, in good condition.
Then you need the timing and luck elements, like the Ferrari example above. Someone publicising investment cars, a new tv series with them in, drunkenly watching wheeler dealers, etc, etc.
I think with a little bit of research, the right timing for your cash, and a little luck, you could hit the nail on the head.
@the GTO above, if you found a UK 3000GT, not GTO, in good condition you might be okay. As a car they were horrible to drive imo, a real let down.
Edited by lythaby on Monday 16th May 14:42
405dogvan said:
Someone has to say this - almost NO cars are good financial investments.
Maybe if you exploit the market (buy a tatty/poorly priced car and sell-on) but OWNING a car will always cost you money (insurance, storage, maintenance, fighting-off depreciation, finding an actual buyer - all cost money)
Obviously some cars will soften the blow by holding value/being easy to sell (the latter being FAR more important than the former) but a lot of this idea of cars which are 'good investments' is based on hot air/myths/careful man-maths!!
Again, I have to strongly disagree, many cars have appreciated hugely in recent times; Alfa 8C, Aston Martin Vanquish, Ford GT, Ferrari 550/575, Porsche GT3's, Mercedes SLS, Mercedes SLR's, TVR's, Noble's etc. Maybe if you exploit the market (buy a tatty/poorly priced car and sell-on) but OWNING a car will always cost you money (insurance, storage, maintenance, fighting-off depreciation, finding an actual buyer - all cost money)
Obviously some cars will soften the blow by holding value/being easy to sell (the latter being FAR more important than the former) but a lot of this idea of cars which are 'good investments' is based on hot air/myths/careful man-maths!!
I suppose the key is when you get onto the depreciation/appreciation curve, SLS's for examples were changing hands for 90 odd grand a few years back, now they are up £140k+, which although was probably their new cost, they have in fact depreciated and then appreciated again quickly, same as things like the BMW 1M & M3 CSL.
I don't think adding in running costs and insurance etc is really relevant to the appreciation value of a car?
I used to have a standard 1989 VW Golf Mk2 GTI 16v. I also had a series 2 Escort RS Turbo. How I wish I'd held on to those!
They were the boy racers car of choice, and as such there aren't many left at all that are standard and undamaged. Most were modified, and as such original ones are now hard to come by and worth a tidy sum, even with high miles.
In that vain, I'm keeping hold of my '99 Impreza Turbo 2000. Completely standard down to the tape deck, I paid £3k for it a few years ago. 45k on the clock and only do 3000 miles per year in the winter... I think original low miles versions will be worth much more in the years to come, as when values bottomed out they were snapped up as easy tuner cars. I garage it 9 months of the year, drive it in DEC/JAN/FEB.
They were the boy racers car of choice, and as such there aren't many left at all that are standard and undamaged. Most were modified, and as such original ones are now hard to come by and worth a tidy sum, even with high miles.
In that vain, I'm keeping hold of my '99 Impreza Turbo 2000. Completely standard down to the tape deck, I paid £3k for it a few years ago. 45k on the clock and only do 3000 miles per year in the winter... I think original low miles versions will be worth much more in the years to come, as when values bottomed out they were snapped up as easy tuner cars. I garage it 9 months of the year, drive it in DEC/JAN/FEB.
The Beaver King said:
I still maintain that these are going to jump up in price in the near future:
You'd have to find a low mileage one, turbo/manual/T-bar will be the one to have.
I keep looking at them, but I can't justify holding onto it for 10 years and limiting the miles.
I can't see it personally. They're rare, but generally not considered to be a particularly good drive (the one I had a go in certainly wasn't)You'd have to find a low mileage one, turbo/manual/T-bar will be the one to have.
I keep looking at them, but I can't justify holding onto it for 10 years and limiting the miles.
If I was buying an investment car, I'd look at the best, most limited edition Subaru Impreza I could afford. Longer term, Civic Type R.
BMW Z4M coupe - limited volume, was seen as difficult to drive and mechanical when it first came out but now it's simplicity and anologue nature is being appreciated.
BMW M3 (E46) built in larger volumes but what a car and complete package. Prices are so low at the moment. Finding an in modified example would be the key here.
BMW M5 (E39) RHD numbers built in limited volume. Fantastic anologue car with great handling and reasonable power. Yes it's not hand built like earlier M5 generations or race bred like the E30 M3. I think the engine have been used in race applications though.
BMW M3 (E46) built in larger volumes but what a car and complete package. Prices are so low at the moment. Finding an in modified example would be the key here.
BMW M5 (E39) RHD numbers built in limited volume. Fantastic anologue car with great handling and reasonable power. Yes it's not hand built like earlier M5 generations or race bred like the E30 M3. I think the engine have been used in race applications though.
blade7 said:
When the bubble bursts I hope all the greedy speculators get a financial kicking.
Me too.There's loads of cars on these type of lists I'd love to own, but they're getting to a price point where they are no good for sticking some miles on and enjoying, too precious and valuable. Also the circles these cars end up in are full of people I don't really fancy associating with, talking investment and how much you've made - boring f
kers, how about go for a proper drive and talk about what a great car it is???I'll stop ranting
The Beaver King said:
I still maintain that these are going to jump up in price in the near future:
You'd have to find a low mileage one, turbo/manual/T-bar will be the one to have.
I keep looking at them, but I can't justify holding onto it for 10 years and limiting the miles.
In agreement, so advanced for their time and due to the lost price /high running cost if it goes wrong now there will be very few around in the future.You'd have to find a low mileage one, turbo/manual/T-bar will be the one to have.
I keep looking at them, but I can't justify holding onto it for 10 years and limiting the miles.
If I only had the space....
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