RE: Citroen SM: PH Carpool
Discussion
Faffmeister said:
LaurasOtherHalf said:
You did t also used to have a little Lotus XI as well did you?
Indeed I did. Well strictly speaking it was a Westfield 11. Are you a bearded stalker.............
I bought a 1971 SM at auction at Retromobile in Paris earlier this year that had had an extraordinary amount of money spent on it by the previous (Dutch) owner. The Dutch seem pretty keen on them. I am embarrassed to say that I have so far had only one decent drive in her. The only thing I can say I genuinely dislike is the standard steering wheel. Not the design which is nice and 'Jetsons' but the material. Instead of having a nice leather rim it is a horrid low rent sweaty rubberised plastic affair. My current thinking is to have it leather trimmed.
I should be grateful to pick the brains of any SM experts on the forum who can help with any of the following:
1. I have two un-marked push button switches on the lower dashroll to the left of the steering column which look factory and do not seem to do anything that I can detect. I managed to pick up an original English language UK model handbook on eBay for the price of a short holiday but unhelpfully these buttons do not feature at all - does anyone by any chance know what they are for?
2. I have the 6 headlight system and have had to mask off the kick-up on the outer dipped beam lights for my MOT. I have never seen another UK registered car do this (and I think plenty have been brought in from LHD-land). I did hear rumour that there was a lever under the bonnet to deal with RHD/LHD. Well, there are plenty of levers under the bonnet but none that seem to do that. The handbook of course is silent. Does anyone know?
3. How audible is my hydraulic actuator supposed to be? It actuates about every 30 secs (which I understand is good) and the car rides beautifully but it is slightly audible in the car as a faint burp. Is that normal? It sounds like a case of mild indigestion.
An interesting helpful tip in the handbook is never to attempt to polish the factory metallic paint as that would b*gger it up.
I should be grateful to pick the brains of any SM experts on the forum who can help with any of the following:
1. I have two un-marked push button switches on the lower dashroll to the left of the steering column which look factory and do not seem to do anything that I can detect. I managed to pick up an original English language UK model handbook on eBay for the price of a short holiday but unhelpfully these buttons do not feature at all - does anyone by any chance know what they are for?
2. I have the 6 headlight system and have had to mask off the kick-up on the outer dipped beam lights for my MOT. I have never seen another UK registered car do this (and I think plenty have been brought in from LHD-land). I did hear rumour that there was a lever under the bonnet to deal with RHD/LHD. Well, there are plenty of levers under the bonnet but none that seem to do that. The handbook of course is silent. Does anyone know?
3. How audible is my hydraulic actuator supposed to be? It actuates about every 30 secs (which I understand is good) and the car rides beautifully but it is slightly audible in the car as a faint burp. Is that normal? It sounds like a case of mild indigestion.
An interesting helpful tip in the handbook is never to attempt to polish the factory metallic paint as that would b*gger it up.
This thread turned up during a google search and I had to respond.
I bought an SM i.e. two years ago. It is my bucket list car.
Mine has had just about all of the possible mods done on it, mainly by previous owners although it has bitten my wallet as well.
I've just had the Megasquirt conversion carried out and am now adapting to how the car drives. In short it no longer pours fuel down the exhaust and instead turns it into power!
Back in the day my father wanted one and naturally turned all practical and instead ran a series of DS. Now the foibles have largely been engineered out it is a fairly practical vehicle, but one which needs knowledgeable maintenance. Last summer we used it as an everyday car for three weeks - they are actually quite practical, apart from the difficulty in getting past the people who are either curious or demonstrating their knowledge of my Gallic spaceship.
To all those who would never touch it because its a disaster waiting to happen - you'll never experience that wonderful howl or the surprising eagerness of that little engine when you pull out on the autoroute and find the needle swinging past 160kph.
To oldbenz, I'll have a look on mine but I suspect those switches are not standard - they don't ring a bell. My headlights are not taped - frankly they are so poor they did not need it! I now have Cx unit innards and we'll see what happens next MOT. And yes you can hear the HD pump.
p.s. mine has a leather overlay on the steering wheel - done in Holland, where I bought it. It is much pleasanter!
I bought an SM i.e. two years ago. It is my bucket list car.
Mine has had just about all of the possible mods done on it, mainly by previous owners although it has bitten my wallet as well.
I've just had the Megasquirt conversion carried out and am now adapting to how the car drives. In short it no longer pours fuel down the exhaust and instead turns it into power!
Back in the day my father wanted one and naturally turned all practical and instead ran a series of DS. Now the foibles have largely been engineered out it is a fairly practical vehicle, but one which needs knowledgeable maintenance. Last summer we used it as an everyday car for three weeks - they are actually quite practical, apart from the difficulty in getting past the people who are either curious or demonstrating their knowledge of my Gallic spaceship.
To all those who would never touch it because its a disaster waiting to happen - you'll never experience that wonderful howl or the surprising eagerness of that little engine when you pull out on the autoroute and find the needle swinging past 160kph.
To oldbenz, I'll have a look on mine but I suspect those switches are not standard - they don't ring a bell. My headlights are not taped - frankly they are so poor they did not need it! I now have Cx unit innards and we'll see what happens next MOT. And yes you can hear the HD pump.
p.s. mine has a leather overlay on the steering wheel - done in Holland, where I bought it. It is much pleasanter!
AW111 said:
jet_noise said:
Nicely written, rated accordingly, classic cars need YOU .
On the car's looks I must be the exception that proves the rule.
DS oh yes. Up there as one of the all time best looking cars of all time, even lightweight E-types have to roll up their sleeves, gird loins and focus to win that battle. But the SM just doesn't do it for me - mental (in a good way), yes but good looking, no,
regards,
Jet
One of my madder daydreams is to buy a DS, rip out the 4 cyl motor & gearbox, and fit an electric drivetrain..On the car's looks I must be the exception that proves the rule.
DS oh yes. Up there as one of the all time best looking cars of all time, even lightweight E-types have to roll up their sleeves, gird loins and focus to win that battle. But the SM just doesn't do it for me - mental (in a good way), yes but good looking, no,
regards,
Jet
Keep the hydraulics, but run off an electric pump.
Magic carpet ride, futuristic shape, and Tesla S performance
Also the electric conversions of classic cars all have the same process and problems, they use an electric motor bolted to the gearbox, mill up an adaptor plate and then put batteries around the car., you put the car in 2nd or reverse using the original gearbox, Job done? Well you have no heating or cooling and a/c is not possible. Not a problem if you are doing a Mini Moke.
So why chose a leaf as a donor? Well the battery sits in its own case, which has heating and cooling which extends battery life. The motor is 103hp/220ft/lb and it is limited to 100mph. The charger sits at the back, but the cables run the length to the front of the car, so changing the charge point is flexible. By using all the elctrical components and wiring in the leaf and the hvac you get all the useablilty of the new car such as keyless ignition, regenitive braking, cruise control, ESP and ABS. The leaf has 2 extra batteries, one in the boot for backup and a standard 12V battery in the engine bay so it can use off the shelf Nissan parts for the SatNav, radio, lights, wipers, locks, window motors etc. You see some Leaf's that have a solar panel in the spoiler above the hatch, this trickle charges the 12V battery, if there is no sun or a draw the it uses the main battery to run these.
You need to use the leaf brakes as the wheel speed sensor runs off the rotor and the calipers need to be the Leaf/Juke for the ABS/ESP/handbrake/speedo to work.
That just leaves the Citroën suspension... I am looking at a later hydractive system from a Xantia, C5 that has seven spheres, one each corner for suspension, one that is between the axles for roll management and the ECU reserve sphere that controls pitch. The hydractive system needs a steering angle sensor, wheel height sensor, throttle position sensor, abs sensor and movement sensor. The reason for the C5 instead of the SM is that the front suspension of the SM is trailing link, while the later Citroën is similar layout to Macfearson strut used in the Leaf/Juke. So I can get away with using just the struts with the spheres of the Citroën but the hub assembly/steering of the Leaf. The suspension pump will be a 12V electrically driven pump as used in Jerry Hathaways SM world land speed record trailer. The C5 system draws 3.7 volts and unlike the DS/SM it electronically locks the height rather than slammed as the older system does.
Axle length needs to be custom made and the curtain side airbag system hotwired, otherwise the Leaf will think it is exactly the same.
sisu said:
I am as mad as you are. I am stripping a 2012 Nissan leaf, as it has the smaller seperate inverter, motor than the newer integrated newer model. By stripping, I mean everything from the Leaf and putting it into the Citroën. The main stumbling block is the front suspension and brakes. The SM has unique suspension and inboard brakes. So needs Nissan Juke/Leaf brakes and rotors. The main problem with most electric conversions are that they just use the motor and a battery with a bodge inverter. They can't use a fast charge system as this will toast the system as the battery, inverter and charger have no cooling/heating and regenitive braking to recharge the battery isn't manageable for the same reasons as it gets to hot. An analogy would be running an engine without cooling or an alternator "Roadkill" style. So if you can't refuel at a fast charge station you are limited where you can use it.
Also the electric conversions of classic cars all have the same process and problems, they use an electric motor bolted to the gearbox, mill up an adaptor plate and then put batteries around the car., you put the car in 2nd or reverse using the original gearbox, Job done? Well you have no heating or cooling and a/c is not possible. Not a problem if you are doing a Mini Moke.
So why chose a leaf as a donor? Well the battery sits in its own case, which has heating and cooling which extends battery life. The motor is 103hp/220ft/lb and it is limited to 100mph. The charger sits at the back, but the cables run the length to the front of the car, so changing the charge point is flexible. By using all the elctrical components and wiring in the leaf and the hvac you get all the useablilty of the new car such as keyless ignition, regenitive braking, cruise control, ESP and ABS. The leaf has 2 extra batteries, one in the boot for backup and a standard 12V battery in the engine bay so it can use off the shelf Nissan parts for the SatNav, radio, lights, wipers, locks, window motors etc. You see some Leaf's that have a solar panel in the spoiler above the hatch, this trickle charges the 12V battery, if there is no sun or a draw the it uses the main battery to run these.
You need to use the leaf brakes as the wheel speed sensor runs off the rotor and the calipers need to be the Leaf/Juke for the ABS/ESP/handbrake/speedo to work.
That just leaves the Citroën suspension... I am looking at a later hydractive system from a Xantia, C5 that has seven spheres, one each corner for suspension, one that is between the axles for roll management and the ECU reserve sphere that controls pitch. The hydractive system needs a steering angle sensor, wheel height sensor, throttle position sensor, abs sensor and movement sensor. The reason for the C5 instead of the SM is that the front suspension of the SM is trailing link, while the later Citroën is similar layout to Macfearson strut used in the Leaf/Juke. So I can get away with using just the struts with the spheres of the Citroën but the hub assembly/steering of the Leaf. The suspension pump will be a 12V electrically driven pump as used in Jerry Hathaways SM world land speed record trailer. The C5 system draws 3.7 volts and unlike the DS/SM it electronically locks the height rather than slammed as the older system does.
Axle length needs to be custom made and the curtain side airbag system hotwired, otherwise the Leaf will think it is exactly the same.
Also the electric conversions of classic cars all have the same process and problems, they use an electric motor bolted to the gearbox, mill up an adaptor plate and then put batteries around the car., you put the car in 2nd or reverse using the original gearbox, Job done? Well you have no heating or cooling and a/c is not possible. Not a problem if you are doing a Mini Moke.
So why chose a leaf as a donor? Well the battery sits in its own case, which has heating and cooling which extends battery life. The motor is 103hp/220ft/lb and it is limited to 100mph. The charger sits at the back, but the cables run the length to the front of the car, so changing the charge point is flexible. By using all the elctrical components and wiring in the leaf and the hvac you get all the useablilty of the new car such as keyless ignition, regenitive braking, cruise control, ESP and ABS. The leaf has 2 extra batteries, one in the boot for backup and a standard 12V battery in the engine bay so it can use off the shelf Nissan parts for the SatNav, radio, lights, wipers, locks, window motors etc. You see some Leaf's that have a solar panel in the spoiler above the hatch, this trickle charges the 12V battery, if there is no sun or a draw the it uses the main battery to run these.
You need to use the leaf brakes as the wheel speed sensor runs off the rotor and the calipers need to be the Leaf/Juke for the ABS/ESP/handbrake/speedo to work.
That just leaves the Citroën suspension... I am looking at a later hydractive system from a Xantia, C5 that has seven spheres, one each corner for suspension, one that is between the axles for roll management and the ECU reserve sphere that controls pitch. The hydractive system needs a steering angle sensor, wheel height sensor, throttle position sensor, abs sensor and movement sensor. The reason for the C5 instead of the SM is that the front suspension of the SM is trailing link, while the later Citroën is similar layout to Macfearson strut used in the Leaf/Juke. So I can get away with using just the struts with the spheres of the Citroën but the hub assembly/steering of the Leaf. The suspension pump will be a 12V electrically driven pump as used in Jerry Hathaways SM world land speed record trailer. The C5 system draws 3.7 volts and unlike the DS/SM it electronically locks the height rather than slammed as the older system does.
Axle length needs to be custom made and the curtain side airbag system hotwired, otherwise the Leaf will think it is exactly the same.
Do you have a build thread somewhere? It sounds a fantastic project.
AW111 said:
sisu said:
I am as mad as you are. I am stripping a 2012 Nissan leaf, as it has the smaller seperate inverter, motor than the newer integrated newer model. By stripping, I mean everything from the Leaf and putting it into the Citroën. The main stumbling block is the front suspension and brakes. The SM has unique suspension and inboard brakes. So needs Nissan Juke/Leaf brakes and rotors. The main problem with most electric conversions are that they just use the motor and a battery with a bodge inverter. They can't use a fast charge system as this will toast the system as the battery, inverter and charger have no cooling/heating and regenitive braking to recharge the battery isn't manageable for the same reasons as it gets to hot. An analogy would be running an engine without cooling or an alternator "Roadkill" style. So if you can't refuel at a fast charge station you are limited where you can use it.
Also the electric conversions of classic cars all have the same process and problems, they use an electric motor bolted to the gearbox, mill up an adaptor plate and then put batteries around the car., you put the car in 2nd or reverse using the original gearbox, Job done? Well you have no heating or cooling and a/c is not possible. Not a problem if you are doing a Mini Moke.
So why chose a leaf as a donor? Well the battery sits in its own case, which has heating and cooling which extends battery life. The motor is 103hp/220ft/lb and it is limited to 100mph. The charger sits at the back, but the cables run the length to the front of the car, so changing the charge point is flexible. By using all the elctrical components and wiring in the leaf and the hvac you get all the useablilty of the new car such as keyless ignition, regenitive braking, cruise control, ESP and ABS. The leaf has 2 extra batteries, one in the boot for backup and a standard 12V battery in the engine bay so it can use off the shelf Nissan parts for the SatNav, radio, lights, wipers, locks, window motors etc. You see some Leaf's that have a solar panel in the spoiler above the hatch, this trickle charges the 12V battery, if there is no sun or a draw the it uses the main battery to run these.
You need to use the leaf brakes as the wheel speed sensor runs off the rotor and the calipers need to be the Leaf/Juke for the ABS/ESP/handbrake/speedo to work.
That just leaves the Citroën suspension... I am looking at a later hydractive system from a Xantia, C5 that has seven spheres, one each corner for suspension, one that is between the axles for roll management and the ECU reserve sphere that controls pitch. The hydractive system needs a steering angle sensor, wheel height sensor, throttle position sensor, abs sensor and movement sensor. The reason for the C5 instead of the SM is that the front suspension of the SM is trailing link, while the later Citroën is similar layout to Macfearson strut used in the Leaf/Juke. So I can get away with using just the struts with the spheres of the Citroën but the hub assembly/steering of the Leaf. The suspension pump will be a 12V electrically driven pump as used in Jerry Hathaways SM world land speed record trailer. The C5 system draws 3.7 volts and unlike the DS/SM it electronically locks the height rather than slammed as the older system does.
Axle length needs to be custom made and the curtain side airbag system hotwired, otherwise the Leaf will think it is exactly the same.
Also the electric conversions of classic cars all have the same process and problems, they use an electric motor bolted to the gearbox, mill up an adaptor plate and then put batteries around the car., you put the car in 2nd or reverse using the original gearbox, Job done? Well you have no heating or cooling and a/c is not possible. Not a problem if you are doing a Mini Moke.
So why chose a leaf as a donor? Well the battery sits in its own case, which has heating and cooling which extends battery life. The motor is 103hp/220ft/lb and it is limited to 100mph. The charger sits at the back, but the cables run the length to the front of the car, so changing the charge point is flexible. By using all the elctrical components and wiring in the leaf and the hvac you get all the useablilty of the new car such as keyless ignition, regenitive braking, cruise control, ESP and ABS. The leaf has 2 extra batteries, one in the boot for backup and a standard 12V battery in the engine bay so it can use off the shelf Nissan parts for the SatNav, radio, lights, wipers, locks, window motors etc. You see some Leaf's that have a solar panel in the spoiler above the hatch, this trickle charges the 12V battery, if there is no sun or a draw the it uses the main battery to run these.
You need to use the leaf brakes as the wheel speed sensor runs off the rotor and the calipers need to be the Leaf/Juke for the ABS/ESP/handbrake/speedo to work.
That just leaves the Citroën suspension... I am looking at a later hydractive system from a Xantia, C5 that has seven spheres, one each corner for suspension, one that is between the axles for roll management and the ECU reserve sphere that controls pitch. The hydractive system needs a steering angle sensor, wheel height sensor, throttle position sensor, abs sensor and movement sensor. The reason for the C5 instead of the SM is that the front suspension of the SM is trailing link, while the later Citroën is similar layout to Macfearson strut used in the Leaf/Juke. So I can get away with using just the struts with the spheres of the Citroën but the hub assembly/steering of the Leaf. The suspension pump will be a 12V electrically driven pump as used in Jerry Hathaways SM world land speed record trailer. The C5 system draws 3.7 volts and unlike the DS/SM it electronically locks the height rather than slammed as the older system does.
Axle length needs to be custom made and the curtain side airbag system hotwired, otherwise the Leaf will think it is exactly the same.
Do you have a build thread somewhere? It sounds a fantastic project.
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