RE: Alfa Romeo Giulia: Driven

[dukebox9reg]

kambites said:

loudlashadjuster said:

kambites said:

...it really doesn't have anything to distinguish it from the Germans for me.

Can you blame them though? I mean, that's obviously what people "want".

It's a difficult one isn't it? If you make your car different than the big-three, no-one buys it because it's different; if you make it the same, no-one buys it because it's the same but people have less faith in the brand/dealers/whatever which in turns hurts residuals which increases rental rates.

Exactly. the previous 308 was given a hard time for looking like a demented fish and looking different. New one looks like a Golf and then is said to look boring and not 'French' anymore and why is it pretending to be German etc.

I think it looks well balanced. I guess it would depend on spec and colours to either be shouty or bland.

[Pooh]

I like it and will certainly consider one within the next year or two.
My recent experience of Alfa dealers has been very good, the staff have been friendly, knowledgeable and helpful, servicing has been properly done and on time. One thing I really like is they don't suffer from the snobby attitude that afflicts so many Mecedes and BMW dealers.
I know that they are trying to increase the dealer network and tie them in with Jeep which is doing very well at the moment.
As for reliability I did 105K miles in my Brera S, it needed a lambda probe and a new timing chain at 96k miles so not perfect but not terrible.
My Giulietta was totally faultless for 3.5 years and 50k miles, no rattles, squeaks, bits failing or falling off so no complaints at all.

[SturdyHSV]

Pooh said:

As for reliability I did 105K miles in my Brera S, it needed a lambda probe and a new timing chain at 96k miles so not perfect but not terrible.

The lambda sensor was probably made by Bosch

Also, I don't think having to have the cambelt changed at 96k miles can be considered a reliability issue... Sounds like you had a couple of good ones either way

[Pereldh]

e46 3-series..? There's a "Hoffmeister kick" on Alfa 75, 90, Alfetta, Alfasud.. I can go on.
Fiat always had it aswell..

It's just in later years BMW seem to snatch that DNA mark.

As for side proportions, any similarity with BMW is down to RWD - not trying to look like a BMW.

Edited by Pereldh on Monday 16th May 16:51

[gweaver]

Pereldh said:

e46 3-series..? There's a "Hoffmeister kick" on Alfa 75, 90, Alfetta, Alfasud.. I can go on.
Fiat always had it aswell..

It's just in later years BMW seem to snatch that DNA mark.

Whilst the classic BMW "kidney" grille is slowly evolving to look like the grille of a Triumph Dolomite..

[Lowtimer]

Pereldh said:

e46 3-series..? There's a "Hoffmeister kick" on Alfa 75, 90, Alfetta, Alfasud.. I can go on.
Fiat always had it aswell..

It's just in later years BMW seem to snatch that DNA mark.

If since 1961 = "later years"

[ducnick]

I can't help feeling Alfa need to crack the diesel fleet market with low tax, good reliability and massive fleet discounts / preferential finance.
The 2.0 petrol one will be a zero sale car so no point bringing it to the uk as cars in this segment are never personal buys. The QV could act as the AMG/M equivalent if Alfa offer a list of options to allow the fleet exec driver to tart up his new motor with a body kit, badges and wheels to make it look like a QV.

Those headline prices simply don't work. Alfa need to learn from ze Germans and price a basic good product low, then make the money on the expensive options that the business user has offset his BIK against.

[gweaver]

ducnick said:

The 2.0 petrol one will be a zero sale car so no point bringing it to the uk as cars in this segment are never personal buys.

Don't be so sure. Jag apparently shifted a lot more 2.0 petrol XEs to private customers than they expected. I'd like to have a choice of used petrol Jag XE/Giulia in a few years time..

[mikEsprit]

I thought the Giulia was a full size large car until recently.

Is this taking up the small slot, the Ghibli the mid size, and the Quattroporte the large size?

If so, the Maseratis don't really have AMG or M competitors. How come?

[ZX10R NIN]

Ali_T said:

Guvernator said:

After looking forward to this car (who wasn't excited by the promise of a RWD Alfa to take on the boring Germans?), I have to say I'm feeling a little disappointed. No manual gearbox on the QV and no decently powered mid-range petrol engine to compete with the M\AMG\S sub-brands of the Germans.

I'm sure the lower power petrols and diesels will be a breath of fresh air for fleet\company buyers as an alternative to the ubiquitous German rep diesels but there is nothing here to stir the blood of the enthusiast IMO which is a shame as a petrol manual with 300bhp or possibly even the QV was definitely on my radar as my next car.

Not even a DCT box? The 8 speed ZF is a decent auto but it doesn't belong in a performance saloon I'm afraid. The QV will be relegated for me to the same bin as AMG cars, good cars with great engines, spoiled by choice of gearbox.

I've heard, on the Alfisti grape vine, that the ZF in the QV is a stop gap as the TCT box isn't ready yet. A TCT was definitely listed for the QV in the earlier leaked engine range that's proven to be true, so far. As for other petrol options, they're coming, as is a V6 diesel out the Ghibli. They've already shown a 280bhp version of the 2.0 I4 at New York, and there's also been rumour son a 330-350bhp version in development. No other V6 petrols confirmed, though.

I don't see the problem with a decent auto box personally, the DCT boxes are great until they go very wrong & you're the one looking at an 8k bill to repair them then you'll wish you had the auto or a manual. I've never missed not having a faster shift, this coming from someone who had his shift speed up on a couple of my cars.

[patch5674]

Kierkegaard said:

Not sure about the profile and the rear end of this car. I'll await real judgement until I've see it for real.

The 159 should've been RWD with a lightened GTA V8 version, that would have really boosted Alfas fortunes. I really would like to run Alfas business one day to really sort it out.

Yeah, a big thirsty lightweight V8 saloon really does have mass market appeal. I can not possibly think why you aren't running Alfa's business to be honest.

[Black S2K]

mikEsprit said:

I thought the Giulia was a full size large car until recently.

Is this taking up the small slot, the Ghibli the mid size, and the Quattroporte the large size?

If so, the Maseratis don't really have AMG or M competitors. How come?

Yes, it's D-segment.

There is supposedly an E-segment version of the Giorgio architecture (Alfetta?) as a Ghibli alternative and it might also underpin the Ghibli replacement too.

IF all goes well...

[TheLuke]

Im welcoming the V6.

IMO we dont have enough fast engine configurations on offer at the moment and certainly not enough v6's. It seems every man and his dog wants to build a V8/I6.

2.9 Is a little wimpy though, 3.2 would have been a much more round number.

[Bradgate]

I'm so disappointed with the styling. It looks like an Infiniti . How could Alfa & Pininfarina get the 156 and 159 so right, yet apparently get the Giulia wrong?

I really, really hope it looks better in the metal.

[BeastieBoy73]

The styling doesn't do anything for me either, a bit of a saggy old pudding really. I understand why people would want to go for something different to the usual German suspects but I'd look towards the shaper styling of the upcoming Volvo cars for that.

[TazLondon]

It just looks like a car cobbled together from leftovers of other cars. Very pedestrian performance, very average interior. It might appeal to someone looking to buy a Ford/Vauxhall/Citroen/Renault/VW but I doubt anyone buying Merc/Audi/BMW will shortlist this car.

[loudlashadjuster]

gweaver said:

ducnick said:

The 2.0 petrol one will be a zero sale car so no point bringing it to the uk as cars in this segment are never personal buys.

Don't be so sure. Jag apparently shifted a lot more 2.0 petrol XEs to private customers than they expected. I'd like to have a choice of used petrol Jag XE/Giulia in a few years time..

And just wait until the artificial promotion of diesels ends when the tax regime shifts in a year or two, then petrols might well become the de facto choice again.

[Lowtimer]

huh? Diesels are currently taxed more heavily than petrol cars, for a given CO2 level. Not less. And that's now continuing for at least another five years.
http://www.fleetalliance.co.uk/diesel-surcharge-ex...

Edited by Lowtimer on Tuesday 17th May 10:12

[Ruskins]

TazLondon said:

It just looks like a car cobbled together from leftovers of other cars. Very pedestrian performance, very average interior. It might appeal to someone looking to buy a Ford/Vauxhall/Citroen/Renault/VW but I doubt anyone buying Merc/Audi/BMW will shortlist this car.

You are trolling right?

[loudlashadjuster]

Lowtimer said:

huh? Diesels are currently taxed more heavily than petrol cars, for a given CO2 level. Not less. And that's now continuing for at least another five years.
http://www.fleetalliance.co.uk/diesel-surcharge-ex...

Edited by Lowtimer on Tuesday 17th May 10:12

Double huh? Looking only at the CO2 output is a false metric, no-one buys a car saying "I'm going to buy a car that outputs 129g/km of CO2" then compares the market. They look at equivalent models and see that diesels cost them less in car tax/BIK and plump for them.

Or have I been dreaming the last 20 years where user-choosers have been almost exclusively been driving diesels due to the tax benefits?

I still think the fallout from the VW emissions scandal and increasing focus on particulates and NOx will mean a change in the testing & tax regimes sooner rather than later, certainly less than five years out, regardless of what Mr Osborne said last year.