RE: Ford Focus RS vs. Honda Civic Type R
Discussion
MrBarry123 said:
Very nicely put.
I don't think I've ever been pushing hard enough in the wet for AWD to have made a tangible difference. And then when it's not wet, my car grips fine as is and I'm thankful of the weight saving.
That makes perfect sense. If you aren't interested in maximum performance in inclement weather, you may not need the extra capabilities of the RS. But, there are times that the added safety of AWD can be a big plus.I don't think I've ever been pushing hard enough in the wet for AWD to have made a tangible difference. And then when it's not wet, my car grips fine as is and I'm thankful of the weight saving.
RocketRS said:
That makes perfect sense. If you aren't interested in maximum performance in inclement weather, you may not need the extra capabilities of the RS. But, there are times that the added safety of AWD can be a big plus.
Do you drive just as fast in the wet as you do in the dry, on the roads? Sounda pretty foolish regardless of the 4wd to me, the margin for error is much thinner, your brakes won't pull you up as quickly either.dwol said:
mattyc69 said:
Link......
Its the next advert on the autotrader to the one you mentioned dont have a clue how to do a linkStephen T said:
That's the crappy Autotrader one I mentioned. Another one?RocketRS said:
The RS is AWD and the Civic is not. The RS AWD gives the car capabilities beyond those of the Civic. Many of us are buying the RS because of those added capabilities. If you don't want them, or can't use them; bully for you. For others, the increased low end grunt and the ability to enjoy performance Winter driving, make the RS the much preferred option. The fact that the author noted that the Civic might have been "close" to the RS's track time seals the deal.
If you're not bothered about carrying 200kgs extra all year when winter tyres would give most of that extra "performance winter driving" then 4wd is indeed for you.I'd rather find the tractive threshold myself, however slow that makes me in winter.
yonex said:
RocketRS said:
Calling someone a "fan" is descriptive. Calling someone a "fanboy" is derogatory. You know it. I know it. And Matt knows it. Why the personal stuff? Like telling someone to "grow up". What does that add to the conversation?
Well someone needs to tell you! A fanboy, fanboi etc have been used for years. Getting all heated up over it is a bit pathetic to be honest. It's not personal, you are a fanboy and need sending to f
king bed without any tea.DISMISSED.
nickfrog said:
If you're not bothered about carrying 200kgs extra all year when winter tyres would give most of that extra "performance winter driving" then 4wd is indeed for you.
I'd rather find the tractive threshold myself, however slow that makes me in winter.
Absolutely, since when is it mandatory to have 4WD? I'd rather find the tractive threshold myself, however slow that makes me in winter.
Axionknight said:
Do you drive just as fast in the wet as you do in the dry, on the roads? Sounda pretty foolish regardless of the 4wd to me, the margin for error is much thinner, your brakes won't pull you up as quickly either.
No. No one with much driving experience would. AWD allows you to have more pace on demanding surfaces. It's why Rally racers opt for AWD. You know, Rallye Sport (RS).It's less of an issue in the conditions of Matt's review (ideal road in optimal weather), but even then it's an advantage; because the rear wheels can be powered faster than the fronts. This allows for active yaw control, something the Civic (and most other AWD systems) lack.
Yaw control means much (much) less understeer. The word that glaringly never appears in Matt's review.
Plastic Sith said:
Autoexpress 'versus' lap times round Llandow in dry, optimum conditions:
Civic Type R (FK2) - 46.50
BMW M2 - 46.70
BMW M3 (F80) - 46.80
Focus RS (Mk III) - 46.80
Seat Leon Cupra 280 DSG- 46.90
Audi RS3 Sportback (8V) - 47.00
Renault Megane RS275 Trophy - 47.60
Sounds about right. I think the Type R will lap the 'Ring significantly faster than the RS in dry conditions as well. Put down a sprinkling of rain, and it'd likely smoke every car on the list. Curious to see that the car Matt thinks might be a better driver's car than both the R and the RS, is last on the list. Does that mean he's a "fanboi"?Civic Type R (FK2) - 46.50
BMW M2 - 46.70
BMW M3 (F80) - 46.80
Focus RS (Mk III) - 46.80
Seat Leon Cupra 280 DSG- 46.90
Audi RS3 Sportback (8V) - 47.00
Renault Megane RS275 Trophy - 47.60
nickfrog said:
If you're not bothered about carrying 200kgs extra all year when winter tyres would give most of that extra "performance winter driving" then 4wd is indeed for you.
I'd rather find the tractive threshold myself, however slow that makes me in winter.
Slapping a set of Hakka's on a FWD car won't give you "most" of the performance of active AWD with the same rubber. Not even close. That's the whole point. I'd rather find the tractive threshold myself, however slow that makes me in winter.
RocketRS said:
Plastic Sith said:
Autoexpress 'versus' lap times round Llandow in dry, optimum conditions:
Civic Type R (FK2) - 46.50
BMW M2 - 46.70
BMW M3 (F80) - 46.80
Focus RS (Mk III) - 46.80
Seat Leon Cupra 280 DSG- 46.90
Audi RS3 Sportback (8V) - 47.00
Renault Megane RS275 Trophy - 47.60
Sounds about right. I think the Type R will lap the 'Ring significantly faster than the RS in dry conditions as well. Put down a sprinkling of rain, and it'd likely smoke every car on the list. Curious to see that the car Matt thinks might be a better driver's car than both the R and the RS, is last on the list. Does that mean he's a "fanboi"?Civic Type R (FK2) - 46.50
BMW M2 - 46.70
BMW M3 (F80) - 46.80
Focus RS (Mk III) - 46.80
Seat Leon Cupra 280 DSG- 46.90
Audi RS3 Sportback (8V) - 47.00
Renault Megane RS275 Trophy - 47.60
Plastic Sith said:
Autoexpress 'versus' lap times round Llandow in dry, optimum conditions:
Civic Type R (FK2) - 46.50
BMW M2 - 46.70
BMW M3 (F80) - 46.80
Focus RS (Mk III) - 46.80
Seat Leon Cupra 280 DSG- 46.90
Audi RS3 Sportback (8V) - 47.00
Renault Megane RS275 Trophy - 47.60
Just to make the point clearly; when AutoTrader did their "MegaTest" of Top Ten Hot Hatches, the Focus RS walked away from the Civic by 1.15 secs around their track. 123.96 and 125.11. The track was damp. That's what Torque Vectoring AWD can do. Civic Type R (FK2) - 46.50
BMW M2 - 46.70
BMW M3 (F80) - 46.80
Focus RS (Mk III) - 46.80
Seat Leon Cupra 280 DSG- 46.90
Audi RS3 Sportback (8V) - 47.00
Renault Megane RS275 Trophy - 47.60
JoeMarano said:
Before the focus rs came out 4wd meant understeer and bogging down.
Now apparantly it's means everything lol
I'm also surprised the Honda fan boys haven't noticed the focus RS has an interior from an avis hire car rental kia...
Simply untrue. It's not as nice as the Audi RS3 or the Merc 45, but it'll leave €10,000 in your pocket; and you'll have a vastly nicer interior than an EVO or a STi. The interior of the Civic looks like Megatron poked his head in the window and puked. There's a meme out there that the RS interior is boggo, but it's simply untrue. Go sit in one and see for yourself.Now apparantly it's means everything lol
I'm also surprised the Honda fan boys haven't noticed the focus RS has an interior from an avis hire car rental kia...
Edited by JoeMarano on Tuesday 24th May 05:50
RocketRS said:
No. No one with much driving experience would. AWD allows you to have more pace on demanding surfaces. It's why Rally racers opt for AWD. You know, Rallye Sport (RS).
It's less of an issue in the conditions of Matt's review (ideal road in optimal weather), but even then it's an advantage; because the rear wheels can be powered faster than the fronts. This allows for active yaw control, something the Civic (and most other AWD systems) lack.
Yaw control means much (much) less understeer. The word that glaringly never appears in Matt's review.
Alright driving God,best of luck with that. It's less of an issue in the conditions of Matt's review (ideal road in optimal weather), but even then it's an advantage; because the rear wheels can be powered faster than the fronts. This allows for active yaw control, something the Civic (and most other AWD systems) lack.
Yaw control means much (much) less understeer. The word that glaringly never appears in Matt's review.
Edited by Axionknight on Tuesday 24th May 06:30
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