RE: Ford Focus RS vs. Honda Civic Type R
Discussion
AMGJocky said:
Axionknight said:
If I hadn't bought the Civic but HAD to have one of its rivals I'd take the Megane, my Renaultsport Clio was an excellent ownership experience and I'd happily have another.
That upcoming article of the two fighting it out will be very interesting 
The new car is every bit as good as the R26.R was with the added benefit of better day to day practicality-buckets and a cage don't work so well on the commute to work!
So is the Meg Trophy better than the Type-R? I think it's coupe shape and lower CoG will have a definite effect, quite possibly enough to null the extra power the Type-R has but even with a more traditional 3 door shape I find it bland to look at. I love all the tech in the Type-R too, the interior is a lovely place to sit and even disregarding it's MPV shape (I still maintain in profile it isn't far off a Picasso in shape!) I just think it looks amazing-like nothing else on the road.
I've said it before, but like the old GTR we used to take to the 'ring it draws attention wherever it goes, people take photos and videos on phones, come over and talk about it etc
Should that be important? It is to me.
LaurasOtherHalf said:
The Meg is undeniably an amazing car, I probably don't have to explain an allegiance as some will know I was an original owner of an R26.R and still get to drive one these days (best mate has one).
The new car is every bit as good as the R26.R was with the added benefit of better day to day practicality-buckets and a cage don't work so well on the commute to work!
So is the Meg Trophy better than the Type-R? I think it's coupe shape and lower CoG will have a definite effect, quite possibly enough to null the extra power the Type-R has but even with a more traditional 3 door shape I find it bland to look at. I love all the tech in the Type-R too, the interior is a lovely place to sit and even disregarding it's MPV shape (I still maintain in profile it isn't far off a Picasso in shape!) I just think it looks amazing-like nothing else on the road.
I've said it before, but like the old GTR we used to take to the 'ring it draws attention wherever it goes, people take photos and videos on phones, come over and talk about it etc
Should that be important? It is to me.
I've had quite a lot of experience with RenaultSports previously, but I would love to have a play in a Type-R. For me, it's the only other hot hatch that is more focused on doing what Renault do so well and trying to do it better. The others are just gimmicky straight line monsters, which I don't care about in a hot hatch.The new car is every bit as good as the R26.R was with the added benefit of better day to day practicality-buckets and a cage don't work so well on the commute to work!
So is the Meg Trophy better than the Type-R? I think it's coupe shape and lower CoG will have a definite effect, quite possibly enough to null the extra power the Type-R has but even with a more traditional 3 door shape I find it bland to look at. I love all the tech in the Type-R too, the interior is a lovely place to sit and even disregarding it's MPV shape (I still maintain in profile it isn't far off a Picasso in shape!) I just think it looks amazing-like nothing else on the road.
I've said it before, but like the old GTR we used to take to the 'ring it draws attention wherever it goes, people take photos and videos on phones, come over and talk about it etc
Should that be important? It is to me.
I've had a 250 cup previously, my other half has her own 250 cup and a good friend of mine has a 350bhp+ R26.R in lunar grey which is just a phenomenal bit of kit. To this day, I've never experienced a more focused and thrilling back road blast than when I've been in his .R. I am absolutely convinced a FRS/A45 would not be able to cope with that car.
A cheeky b
d told me I had a "nice Prius" in the Sainsburies carpark last night 
In all seriousness he said he liked it and thought it "looked mental, in a good way" once he had a good look round it.
I haven't owned a car that garnered attention before, in eleven years of driving I barely heard a word from anybody apart from when I was 20 and had a new Volvo C30 - they were mainly "that must be your Dads" comments though.
I love it, it might be mad, OTT and daft looking but that makes it all the better IMO, if I wanted to fly under the radar I'd buy a Golf, but I don't so I didn't , and I certainly don't care if people think I'm driving about in a chavvy/barry/ned motor.
Obviously if someone thinks it looks like a dogs dinner then that's fine - different strokes for different folks n' all that. I'd never call it beautiful, but I like the way it looks and the mad styling plays a big part in that.
d told me I had a "nice Prius" in the Sainsburies carpark last night In all seriousness he said he liked it and thought it "looked mental, in a good way" once he had a good look round it.
I haven't owned a car that garnered attention before, in eleven years of driving I barely heard a word from anybody apart from when I was 20 and had a new Volvo C30 - they were mainly "that must be your Dads" comments though.
I love it, it might be mad, OTT and daft looking but that makes it all the better IMO, if I wanted to fly under the radar I'd buy a Golf, but I don't so I didn't , and I certainly don't care if people think I'm driving about in a chavvy/barry/ned motor.Obviously if someone thinks it looks like a dogs dinner then that's fine - different strokes for different folks n' all that. I'd never call it beautiful, but I like the way it looks and the mad styling plays a big part in that.
Axionknight said:
AMGJocky said:
I've had quite a lot of experience with RenaultSports previously, but I would love to have a play in a Type-R.
Do you live near Aberdeen perchance? I'm happy to go for a spin some time, unless you're a mentalist or something 
AMGJocky said:
The others are just gimmicky straight line monsters, which I don't care about in a hot hatch.
I've had a 250 cup previously, my other half has her own 250 cup and a good friend of mine has a 350bhp+ R26.R in lunar grey which is just a phenomenal bit of kit. To this day, I've never experienced a more focused and thrilling back road blast than when I've been in his .R. I am absolutely convinced a FRS/A45 would not be able to cope with that car.
Your first paragraph - It is obvious you have not driven the FRS as its certainly not just a straight line car. It has driving dynamics that set it aside from anything else on the market. I did not have drift mode engaged when it caught me out a little by going sideways on the test drive. A fwd car simply doesn't have the physics on its side to do that sort of thing and that sort of thing is fun.I've had a 250 cup previously, my other half has her own 250 cup and a good friend of mine has a 350bhp+ R26.R in lunar grey which is just a phenomenal bit of kit. To this day, I've never experienced a more focused and thrilling back road blast than when I've been in his .R. I am absolutely convinced a FRS/A45 would not be able to cope with that car.
Your friend with a 350bhp R26R must indeed be very quick as its a stripped out track special with over 100bhp more than it left the factory with. Very capable I'm sure but then so would most modified cars weighing so little and with 350bhp be. But then being a 2 seater with a roll cage and plastic instead of glass etc its not really comparable with a fully equipped car.
Your example would be similar to comparing the 350bhp R26R to a 350bhp caterham. Again one far more setup for the track and one far more setup for long journeys.
All great cars, all with their individual strengths and weaknesses.
rb5er said:
AMGJocky said:
The others are just gimmicky straight line monsters, which I don't care about in a hot hatch.
I've had a 250 cup previously, my other half has her own 250 cup and a good friend of mine has a 350bhp+ R26.R in lunar grey which is just a phenomenal bit of kit. To this day, I've never experienced a more focused and thrilling back road blast than when I've been in his .R. I am absolutely convinced a FRS/A45 would not be able to cope with that car.
Your first paragraph - It is obvious you have not driven the FRS as its certainly not just a straight line car. It has driving dynamics that set it aside from anything else on the market. I did not have drift mode engaged when it caught me out a little by going sideways on the test drive. A fwd car simply doesn't have the physics on its side to do that sort of thing and that sort of thing is fun.I've had a 250 cup previously, my other half has her own 250 cup and a good friend of mine has a 350bhp+ R26.R in lunar grey which is just a phenomenal bit of kit. To this day, I've never experienced a more focused and thrilling back road blast than when I've been in his .R. I am absolutely convinced a FRS/A45 would not be able to cope with that car.
Your friend with a 350bhp R26R must indeed be very quick as its a stripped out track special with over 100bhp more than it left the factory with. Very capable I'm sure but then so would most modified cars weighing so little and with 350bhp be. But then being a 2 seater with a roll cage and plastic instead of glass etc its not really comparable with a fully equipped car.
Your example would be similar to comparing the 350bhp R26R to a 350bhp caterham. Again one far more setup for the track and one far more setup for long journeys.
All great cars, all with their individual strengths and weaknesses.
Even so, looking forward to having a go in an these new hot hatches at some point, just more-so the CTR. Hence why I'm really looking forward to that 275 Cup-S vs CTR article - they're the hot hatches that I'm most interested in due to their levels of 'focus.'
rb5er said:
AMGJocky said:
The others are just gimmicky straight line monsters, which I don't care about in a hot hatch.
I've had a 250 cup previously, my other half has her own 250 cup and a good friend of mine has a 350bhp+ R26.R in lunar grey which is just a phenomenal bit of kit. To this day, I've never experienced a more focused and thrilling back road blast than when I've been in his .R. I am absolutely convinced a FRS/A45 would not be able to cope with that car.
Your first paragraph - It is obvious you have not driven the FRS as its certainly not just a straight line car. It has driving dynamics that set it aside from anything else on the market. I did not have drift mode engaged when it caught me out a little by going sideways on the test drive. A fwd car simply doesn't have the physics on its side to do that sort of thing and that sort of thing is fun.I've had a 250 cup previously, my other half has her own 250 cup and a good friend of mine has a 350bhp+ R26.R in lunar grey which is just a phenomenal bit of kit. To this day, I've never experienced a more focused and thrilling back road blast than when I've been in his .R. I am absolutely convinced a FRS/A45 would not be able to cope with that car.
Your friend with a 350bhp R26R must indeed be very quick as its a stripped out track special with over 100bhp more than it left the factory with. Very capable I'm sure but then so would most modified cars weighing so little and with 350bhp be. But then being a 2 seater with a roll cage and plastic instead of glass etc its not really comparable with a fully equipped car.
Your example would be similar to comparing the 350bhp R26R to a 350bhp caterham. Again one far more setup for the track and one far more setup for long journeys.
All great cars, all with their individual strengths and weaknesses.
Secondly if getting sideways is important to you , why didn't you get a rear wheel drive?
I did enjoy my drive of an R26 and an RS250. Lovely seats and a great drive (not so keen on the gearbox) but not so excited on the mechanical issues of the earlier car or looks inside or out of either. Subjective obviously but the driving dynamics are good although still typically fwd.
I enjoy fwd cars a lot, its more the car and the way its setup that makes it fun (my awd Volvo is not at all a playful car, just planted at all times) and I like lift off oversteer as it can indeed be quite fun. My old Focus ST had a very playful rear end but it is all quite different in regards to the driving dynamics of an oversteery rwd car of which the FRS with its rear biassed (for fun) setup does a great job of mimicking.
I don't think the FRS should be criticised for being awd unless someone drives it and for some reason does not like it, as it drives nothing like a typical haldex driven car. So far every review as been positive about the way it goes round corners. I doubt even if you dug up reviews in South Africa ( ) you will find one saying its anything but a very fun car to drive.
I enjoy fwd cars a lot, its more the car and the way its setup that makes it fun (my awd Volvo is not at all a playful car, just planted at all times) and I like lift off oversteer as it can indeed be quite fun. My old Focus ST had a very playful rear end but it is all quite different in regards to the driving dynamics of an oversteery rwd car of which the FRS with its rear biassed (for fun) setup does a great job of mimicking.
I don't think the FRS should be criticised for being awd unless someone drives it and for some reason does not like it, as it drives nothing like a typical haldex driven car. So far every review as been positive about the way it goes round corners. I doubt even if you dug up reviews in South Africa (
) you will find one saying its anything but a very fun car to drive.egor110 said:
Be honest, in reality how often do you actually get sideways?
Secondly if getting sideways is important to you , why didn't you get a rear wheel drive?
I bought an Evo rather than a Subaru as the front end was much more pointy and the back end had more tendency to come round in the Evo.Secondly if getting sideways is important to you , why didn't you get a rear wheel drive?
Whilst "going sideways" wasn't the desired outcome all the time, it was much better that the back end moved rather than the front end.
This aligns with buying a focus RS.
RW
rb5er said:
I did enjoy my drive of an R26 and an RS250. Lovely seats and a great drive (not so keen on the gearbox) but not so excited on the mechanical issues of the earlier car or looks inside or out of either. Subjective obviously but the driving dynamics are good although still typically fwd.
I enjoy fwd cars a lot, its more the car and the way its setup that makes it fun (my awd Volvo is not at all a playful car, just planted at all times) and I like lift off oversteer as it can indeed be quite fun. My old Focus ST had a very playful rear end but it is all quite different in regards to the driving dynamics of an oversteery rwd car of which the FRS with its rear biassed (for fun) setup does a great job of mimicking.
I don't think the FRS should be criticised for being awd unless someone drives it and for some reason does not like it, as it drives nothing like a typical haldex driven car. So far every review as been positive about the way it goes round corners. I doubt even if you dug up reviews in South Africa ( ) you will find one saying its anything but a very fun car to drive.
Oh no don't get me wrong, I'm sure the FRS is very fun to drive, just in a different way to a Megane would be of course. I won't get all Joepolo on you with it - just my experience of AWD has never been anything other than sense-numbing and dull. I'm sure I'll have a go in one soon and then can draw a proper conclusion personally. Until then, I still have access to a 250 cup every day so the bias will likely continue I enjoy fwd cars a lot, its more the car and the way its setup that makes it fun (my awd Volvo is not at all a playful car, just planted at all times) and I like lift off oversteer as it can indeed be quite fun. My old Focus ST had a very playful rear end but it is all quite different in regards to the driving dynamics of an oversteery rwd car of which the FRS with its rear biassed (for fun) setup does a great job of mimicking.
I don't think the FRS should be criticised for being awd unless someone drives it and for some reason does not like it, as it drives nothing like a typical haldex driven car. So far every review as been positive about the way it goes round corners. I doubt even if you dug up reviews in South Africa (
) you will find one saying its anything but a very fun car to drive.I was always a fan of fast fords, epecially the RS models when growing up, the Escort Cosworth (RS200 always out of reach!) was always the car I wanted to own... but the Civic does appeal more out the two tested as a daily/fun car.
Not sure about the comments regarding the 'perfect conditions' to suit the Civic either. Maybe this is just me but if it is a png it down I wouldn't think 'I'm off for a spirited drive', I do only use dry days for going for a 'drive'. My commute does not suit spirited driving so it doesn't really matter if it rains or not.
..... I would still take the megane over these two though.
ETA: I hope the phrase 'Joepolo' is added to the oxford dictionary this year.
Not sure about the comments regarding the 'perfect conditions' to suit the Civic either. Maybe this is just me but if it is a p
ng it down I wouldn't think 'I'm off for a spirited drive', I do only use dry days for going for a 'drive'. My commute does not suit spirited driving so it doesn't really matter if it rains or not...... I would still take the megane over these two though.
ETA: I hope the phrase 'Joepolo' is added to the oxford dictionary this year.
Edited by Tickle on Wednesday 25th May 12:31
The evo track test between the megane and ctr highlights for me the downside of the ctr, managing understeer is disappointing, from a driving point of view I cant think of much worse, the equivalent of pulling a fit bird only to find out she's got a todger when you get her in the sack. The megane seems more neutral with a tendency to oversteer.
Steven_RW said:
egor110 said:
Be honest, in reality how often do you actually get sideways?
Secondly if getting sideways is important to you , why didn't you get a rwd car?
Whilst "going sideways" wasn't the desired outcome all the time, it was much better that the back end moved rather than the front end. Secondly if getting sideways is important to you , why didn't you get a rwd car?
This aligns with buying a focus RS.
Most powerful, fully equipped rwd cars that I have driven (Mercedes mainly) really struggle when the conditions are poor (although this can be a bit of fun too).
The FRS manages a bit of everything whenever you want it to and due to that is is quite unique and different to anything on sale today.
You should drive one, you might like it too.
MRobbins1987 said:
The evo track test between the megane and ctr highlights for me the downside of the ctr, managing understeer is disappointing, from a driving point of view I cant think of much worse, the equivalent of pulling a fit bird only to find out she's got a todger when you get her in the sack. The megane seems more neutral with a tendency to oversteer.
A frequent tendencyMRobbins1987 said:
The evo track test between the megane and ctr highlights for me the downside of the ctr
That it comes on road biased tyres? Put almost any hot hatch on 888s or Cup2s and with the lack of weight over the rear axle (combined with immense grip at the front) and you'll get the same result. See MINI GP as an example, never a more sideways hatch have I ever owned.
Interestingly an owner of a Cayman GTS approached us at the 'ring and proceeded to inform us just how much the Type-R moved around in corners.
AMGJocky said:
Axionknight said:
AMGJocky said:
I've had quite a lot of experience with RenaultSports previously, but I would love to have a play in a Type-R.
Do you live near Aberdeen perchance? I'm happy to go for a spin some time, unless you're a mentalist or something 
Honda in Langstracht wouldn't allow me to test drive one because my license isn't clean! I've never been asked from any other garage in the past about points on license, nor even asked to show my license as far as I can remember.It's a pity because it was a nice grey one in GT spec. As much as I think the new Focus RS is incredible, I think I'd prefer the Type R.
I'll add my thoughts on the debate regarding the Civic, or FWD in general, in the wet. From my experience of 4wd drive cars I've driven in the wet, it's obvious there is far more traction on offer in first and second gear, but after that I can't see the advantage. I don't really see 4wd providing an advantage in lateral grip in the wet or stopping you any quicker, unless the additional weight does slightly help grip (using the theory of the Nissan GTR for example). Unless you are racing, do you really need to be coming out of corners quicker in the wet? I've driven my Evo in the wet a few times and all I can say is that I had far more confidence pushing my old Fiesta ST with 230bhp (approx.) in the wet than I do with the Evo. It's amazing what a decent set of tyres, such as Uniroyal Rainsports, can do for a FWD car in the wet.
Mine came from there, the chap I dealt with was a properly decent petrol head.
How recently was this? You might have been looking at what is now my car! They asked for my license too, which is clean, amazingly, considering the frigging A90 cameras
Not letting you out seems very stingey though.
They had a blue one in thr first time I went up, that looks smart too. They have had a red one in as a demo also, that's alright, but not a patch on the grey imo.
How recently was this? You might have been looking at what is now my car! They asked for my license too, which is clean, amazingly, considering the frigging A90 cameras
Not letting you out seems very stingey though.They had a blue one in thr first time I went up, that looks smart too. They have had a red one in as a demo also, that's alright, but not a patch on the grey imo.
Edited by Axionknight on Wednesday 25th May 13:11
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