RE: Ford Focus RS vs. Honda Civic Type R
Discussion
Not really on topic but not too far off, I had an interesting, er, sprint (probably the safest word to use) with a Mk7 Golf GTI many weeks back and I was stunned at how quick it was 
I accidently met the owner at a Snetterton track day a week or so later, and we had a good chat. His Golf had been modded and remapped and was putting out something like 350 odd bhp and around 380 ft/lbs... I had trawled through some of the tuning options for these cars on the internet and did indeed find information and data that confirmed these figures were not difficult (although a trifle expensive) to achieve...
Just thought I'd mention it...
Chilli
I accidently met the owner at a Snetterton track day a week or so later, and we had a good chat. His Golf had been modded and remapped and was putting out something like 350 odd bhp and around 380 ft/lbs... I had trawled through some of the tuning options for these cars on the internet and did indeed find information and data that confirmed these figures were not difficult (although a trifle expensive) to achieve...Just thought I'd mention it...
Chilli
JoeMarano said:
Well any more power than that in a fwd is not going to help it get off the line any quicker or aid traction out of corners or make it any faster in the wet etc
4wd is a much better base for more power if that's something you feel inclined to do...
I refer you to my post above regarding the modded Golf GTI, According to the owner it handles the (significant) extra power rather well and is an absolute hoot drive... Do you have good reason to think this would not also apply to the Civic? Driving cars (in my opinion) is all about having fun not 'getting off the line quicker' (pointless on the road and no benefit on track days), 'aid traction out of corners'... again if you're looking for more traction out of corners you should be driving on a track not a public highway... And (IMO) if you want more traction out of corners (and/or grip through them) stick a set of road legal track tyres on it 4wd is a much better base for more power if that's something you feel inclined to do...
JoeMarano said:
I went out in a 435bhp EP3 not so long ago and gears one and two are pretty much redundant whereas I can imagine with a 4wd car it wouldn't be so much of a problem.
With all due respect (I'm not trying to be argumentative here) what was the point of this 435bhp EP3?. It sounds like an experiment to see how much bhp the engine could produce rather than an attempt to create a quicker but still practical fun car.... I doubt anyone here would disagree with your comments regarding the advantages 4 wheel drive has for putting power down, I seem to remember Audi winning lots of rally's with a four wheel drive system some years ago By the way, my '96 VR6 isn't turbo charged (as you mentioned earlier) and I'm sure your Polo will be quicker in all respects
Cheers
Chilli
Don't worry I'm used to forums being argumentative (it's what they are for isn't it)
Well he's got an LSD, semis, coilovers etc etc and I think it's meant to be mainly for fast daily and track work. It's impressive but like I say it's an effort for him to keep it in a straight line in second which is alien to me as I've always had cars that are underpowered (twingo, clio, saxo's etc)
Well he's got an LSD, semis, coilovers etc etc and I think it's meant to be mainly for fast daily and track work. It's impressive but like I say it's an effort for him to keep it in a straight line in second which is alien to me as I've always had cars that are underpowered (twingo, clio, saxo's etc)
JoeMarano said:
I went out in a 435bhp EP3 not so long ago and gears one and two are pretty much redundant whereas I can imagine with a 4wd car it wouldn't be so much of a problem.
When you are into those figures the its a good job 1st and 2nd fail to gain traction; the strain on the drivetrain would be immense.People forget sometimes that it's not just the ability of the engine to handle the power but the whole car. The extra torque generated has to be dispersed through the car (assuming traction is OK) and this can wear out components, bushes, clutches etc at a massive rate.
Have a look at what happens to BMW Z3M's (rip the diff mounting ear and shred boot floor spot welds) and E46 M3; the rear axel carrier panel (to which to subframe that cradles the diff is bolted) places such strain that the panel fractures.
My daily is an ed30 golf dsg with an apr map at around 310hp - handles is greatly but would not go any further with modifications due to the limitations of the gearbox, clutches and bushes etc. Traction for a car that is based on the mkv gti making 197hp is remarkable.
Classic example of 'wheelspin is your friend'.... I've driven the strip at the Pod a couple of times, on road tyres that love to spin... A couple of peeps I know with the same car with similar or a bit more bhp/torque have tried Mickey Thompsons to improve their 1/8 ET's and snapped the standard half shafts without hardly getting off the line 
You can of course buy/fit uprated half shafts but that just transfers the problem to the next weakest link...
Going back on topic, I'll probably never be in the market for an RS or a Type R, and although being a Ford fan in my yoof, and prefer the looks of the Ford to the Honda, I'm pretty sure I'd have to (extensively) test drive both before shelling out the old hard earned...
You can of course buy/fit uprated half shafts but that just transfers the problem to the next weakest link...Going back on topic, I'll probably never be in the market for an RS or a Type R, and although being a Ford fan in my yoof, and prefer the looks of the Ford to the Honda, I'm pretty sure I'd have to (extensively) test drive both before shelling out the old hard earned...
Quite enjoyed this vid - you may too
No Focus RS but it has the new Civic vs AMG, M2 and RS3
https://youtu.be/VCyh8eLDVaw
No Focus RS but it has the new Civic vs AMG, M2 and RS3
https://youtu.be/VCyh8eLDVaw
vz-r_dave said:
Conditions must've been terrible as the Renault test driver has got round 5 seconds quicker!http://fastestlaps.com/tracks/suzuka
JoeMarano said:
One second is naff all on such a long lap. I would have expected a greater difference as that could be explained by a million factors.
Lots of variables involved but I expected the two to be fairly equal regardless so it seems we have two very good hot hatches to choose from. I think the Type R will end up being the quicker car (if it shares the same tyres in the tests) but the margins are going to be very small. Such an even match though in terms of performance and mechanics so it'll go down to aesthetics and the badge I guess.
vz-r_dave said:
JoeMarano said:
One second is naff all on such a long lap. I would have expected a greater difference as that could be explained by a million factors.
Lots of variables involved but I expected the two to be fairly equal regardless so it seems we have two very good hot hatches to choose from. I think the Type R will end up being the quicker car (if it shares the same tyres in the tests) but the margins are going to be very small. Such an even match though in terms of performance and mechanics so it'll go down to aesthetics and the badge I guess.
Legacywr said:
When you're not throwing it round corners, that Megane RS is pretty nasty!
That was my assumption, however after a few weeks in one it's pretty well put together and looks striking, not that looks bother me or are objective anyway.The Recaros do lift it ergonomically too.
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