Keyless fobs. Why?
Discussion
stanglish said:
Half-keyless - gotcha. That is pointless. Presumably though like others have said you still have a key in your fob because there will bey a lock still (hidden) as a backup.
Full-keyless (entry & start) sounds very useful to me!
Do modern Fords not have the same arrangement as the mk2 Focus?Full-keyless (entry & start) sounds very useful to me!
I can just keep my key in my pocket, car unlocks when I pull the door handle. Then to lock, I just press a button on the door.
If not, then that seems like a backwards step!
poing said:
How is that better than just legging it to the house and pressing lock on the remote from my dry house? Not to mention I'll have to start cleaning the damn thing if I'm going to be rubbing it all the time. I don't want to touch the car to lock it, a backwards step if ever there was one.
You can still do this.My fob has a hidden key for emergencies like flat batteries in the fob or something which will open the door. The entire fob will happily go into the fob slot if you want to start the car that way and the fob has 3 buttons on it - lock, unlock and open the boot. So you can still do things the "old-fashioned" way if you want to.
Or you can do it all with the key in your pocket.
The car also recognises if the key which unlocked it is still in the car and won't let you lock the car with it in there (ditto the boot) which has saved me once or twice from locking myself out and/or the 2 year old, in.
Just have to make sure the fob isn't in my pocket when washing the car or it will lock and unlock as I was the door handles
It's the half systems that are the problem. On my XF you needed to blip the fob to lock and unlock the car but it had a stop start button, so you needed the fob out of your pocket but then had to find somewhere to put it when in the car - none of this leave in the pocket and forget mullarkey.
My Leon is of the more conventional system - blip the fob (with fold away key), key in the ignition and turn to start, easy. No 'bunch' dangling down either, just a front door key for the house and manufacturer's key ring.
Needs to be the whole hog one way or the other, otherwise it's more awkward than full keyless or not keyless at all.
My Leon is of the more conventional system - blip the fob (with fold away key), key in the ignition and turn to start, easy. No 'bunch' dangling down either, just a front door key for the house and manufacturer's key ring.
Needs to be the whole hog one way or the other, otherwise it's more awkward than full keyless or not keyless at all.
Edited by Antony Moxey on Tuesday 24th May 09:17
I'd rather a key.
I've heard too many stories of people who keep their key in the house, close to the car physically, who have got in and driven away only to discover that they've driven out of range and once they stop the car, they're f
ked.
I seem to remember that happening to a reviewer with the Ducati Multistrada. From memory, he left the key in a filling station and was able to ride away and only noticed at the next filling station.
Is that still a real possibility or have they come up with something clever?
I've heard too many stories of people who keep their key in the house, close to the car physically, who have got in and driven away only to discover that they've driven out of range and once they stop the car, they're f
ked.I seem to remember that happening to a reviewer with the Ducati Multistrada. From memory, he left the key in a filling station and was able to ride away and only noticed at the next filling station.
Is that still a real possibility or have they come up with something clever?
They are just something you get used to, some people don't like them at first then come to love them.
I personally don't like them as I drive a number of vehicles and there isn't the same consistency between manufacturers that you get with a key. There is always some sort of individual foible such as having to put your left foot on the brake pedal and your right finger in your left ear before the car will start (slightly exaggerated example).
But they're not as bad as fking electronic handbrakes!!!
I personally don't like them as I drive a number of vehicles and there isn't the same consistency between manufacturers that you get with a key. There is always some sort of individual foible such as having to put your left foot on the brake pedal and your right finger in your left ear before the car will start (slightly exaggerated example).
But they're not as bad as f
king electronic handbrakes!!! I've got it but I don't like having keys in my pocket so they usually get chucked on the seat.
Two times it's been a pain;
- Cornered too hard and the keys slid under the seat, took me 15 mins to fish them out when I got to my destination;
- Wife uses the spare key as it automatically sets her radio/heating/seats/mirrors etc when she uses that particular key. It's happened more than once, somehow, that when we both have keys on us, I've hopped in only for the seat to start trying to pop me as it squeezes me into the steering wheel.
Two times it's been a pain;
- Cornered too hard and the keys slid under the seat, took me 15 mins to fish them out when I got to my destination;
- Wife uses the spare key as it automatically sets her radio/heating/seats/mirrors etc when she uses that particular key. It's happened more than once, somehow, that when we both have keys on us, I've hopped in only for the seat to start trying to pop me as it squeezes me into the steering wheel.
Disastrous said:
I'd rather a key.
I've heard too many stories of people who keep their key in the house, close to the car physically, who have got in and driven away only to discover that they've driven out of range and once they stop the car, they're fked.
I seem to remember that happening to a reviewer with the Ducati Multistrada. From memory, he left the key in a filling station and was able to ride away and only noticed at the next filling station.
Is that still a real possibility or have they come up with something clever?
My Harley has keyless ignition, if you lose the fob or the battery dies you can enter a code on the dash and the bike will start.I've heard too many stories of people who keep their key in the house, close to the car physically, who have got in and driven away only to discover that they've driven out of range and once they stop the car, they're f
ked.I seem to remember that happening to a reviewer with the Ducati Multistrada. From memory, he left the key in a filling station and was able to ride away and only noticed at the next filling station.
Is that still a real possibility or have they come up with something clever?
Blanchimont said:
Morningside said:
I even have one-of-those on my Scenic.
Always wondered if I press it at 70mph if it would actually turn the engine off or if their** are some safeguards to stop such stupidity.
I tried it at 10 on my Megane, it wouldn't turn off. Always wondered if I press it at 70mph if it would actually turn the engine off or if their** are some safeguards to stop such stupidity.
.**there
I've got it and can definitely see the appeal and as a novelty it's quite fun but it worries me for two main reasons.
1 - My car is a Renault so it will eventually have an electrical paddy and the whole system will stop working. In that case I will be able to get in using the emergency thing but there is no manual over-ride to start the car which is just stupid and infuriating. Why not a key slot in the glovebox or something for the emergency blade? In the old days if the battery went flat you lost remote locking but at least you could bloody get home.
2 - The "key" looks stupid, is bulky and fragile and I'm terrified of sitting on it or losing it all the time so shove It in a bag. Then the car randomly refuses to lock (Renault) and I have to hunt about for it to press the button on the fob anyway.
1 - My car is a Renault so it will eventually have an electrical paddy and the whole system will stop working. In that case I will be able to get in using the emergency thing but there is no manual over-ride to start the car which is just stupid and infuriating. Why not a key slot in the glovebox or something for the emergency blade? In the old days if the battery went flat you lost remote locking but at least you could bloody get home.
2 - The "key" looks stupid, is bulky and fragile and I'm terrified of sitting on it or losing it all the time so shove It in a bag. Then the car randomly refuses to lock (Renault) and I have to hunt about for it to press the button on the fob anyway.
Edited by StoatInACoat on Tuesday 24th May 10:18
kapiteinlangzaam said:
boyse7en said:
GetCarter said:
It's very simple.
I walk to the car and open the door and it unlocks.
I get in the car and press the start/stop button and the car starts.
I drive the car.
I stop the car and press the start/stop button and the engine stops.
I walk away from the car and it locks.
..and all the time my key is in one of my pockets (I don't even know which one).
I therefore don't have to faff about finding the key to unlock the door.
I don't have to faff about finding the key to start the engine.
I don't have to defrost bloody door locks in winter.
I don't have a bunch of keys hanging from the ignition.
etc.
Those who want all that faff are welcome to their keys
That's great for a one-user car.I walk to the car and open the door and it unlocks.
I get in the car and press the start/stop button and the car starts.
I drive the car.
I stop the car and press the start/stop button and the engine stops.
I walk away from the car and it locks.
..and all the time my key is in one of my pockets (I don't even know which one).
I therefore don't have to faff about finding the key to unlock the door.
I don't have to faff about finding the key to start the engine.
I don't have to defrost bloody door locks in winter.
I don't have a bunch of keys hanging from the ignition.
etc.
Those who want all that faff are welcome to their keys
My sister and brother in law get in their car. She's driving. She and children get out at my house and hubby jumps in, presses start button and waves goodbye as he drives off to a business meeting in Norfolk.
The phone call came about two hours later when they discovered she still had the keys in her handbag...
Mine bongs like a demonic tw@t when the key is out of range and the engine is running. Theres no way you could ignore it.
Passive keyless entry and start is brilliant. The key fob need never leave your pocket / bag. You walk up to the car, pull the handle and it unlocks. Get in, press button on dashboard, engine starts. Arrive at destination, press dashboard button again to turn off engine, get out, press button on door handle to lock the car. What's not to like?
The silly early keyless start systems a'la Honda where you have to put a key in the ignition, turn it, THEN press a start button are a bit daft, however.
I don't understand the deliberate perpetuation of ludditism (is that a word? Well it is now...) on this forum sometimes.
The silly early keyless start systems a'la Honda where you have to put a key in the ignition, turn it, THEN press a start button are a bit daft, however.
I don't understand the deliberate perpetuation of ludditism (is that a word? Well it is now...) on this forum sometimes.
Howard- said:
<snip>
The silly early keyless start systems a'la Honda where you have to put a key in the ignition, turn it, THEN press a start button are a bit daft, however.
<snip>
that's more 'ooh shiny' factor than keyless though The silly early keyless start systems a'la Honda where you have to put a key in the ignition, turn it, THEN press a start button are a bit daft, however.
<snip>
it;s like buses / plant / racing cars but just with a key for the master switch ...
Let's be honest there's no reason not to have one unless you have a st designed one.
It does literally everything you key does but you don't have to remove it from your pocket. The benefits of which are obvious to anyone who has to carry things from time to time.
The one in my work car is well over a decade old and so far it's been very useful, no issues whatsoever.
t designed one. It does literally everything you key does but you don't have to remove it from your pocket. The benefits of which are obvious to anyone who has to carry things from time to time.
The one in my work car is well over a decade old and so far it's been very useful, no issues whatsoever.
Furyjoell said:
Morningside said:
I even have one-of-those on my Scenic.
Always wondered if I press it at 70mph if it would actually turn the engine off or if their are some safeguards to stop such stupidity.
On my Focus a single press while moving will do nothing. However, if you either hold it for 3 seconds or press it quickly 3 times, the engine will shut down regardless of your speed.Always wondered if I press it at 70mph if it would actually turn the engine off or if their are some safeguards to stop such stupidity.
One owner on a Tiguan forum I use has got very exercised about keyless start as he somehow stalled his manual car doing sudden braking on the motorway.
Then, as it often does, the traffic picked up again without stopping. However his car wouldn't restart unless he came to complete stop and within moments he's surrounded by cars going past at considerable speed.
I recall certain Renault and VW cars years back had a system where the fob allowed keyless entry, but was then pushed into a hole in the dash where the final bit of the push acted as the start button. Seems to alleviate many of the pitfalls of keyless.
I tried driving a DS5 whilst my OH had the key on her back home. I don't recall much complaining from the car, and I got quarter of a mile away before I turned back.
I tried driving a DS5 whilst my OH had the key on her back home. I don't recall much complaining from the car, and I got quarter of a mile away before I turned back.
I think with keyless cars it's about if it actually makes life easier or if it's a hindrance.
My RS Megane from 2006 had keyless entry, as long as the fob was within a couple of feet of the car you could go up to a door handle and it would unlock the car. You get in, sit down, foot on clutch and press Start. It was as simple as that and you could get out and lock the car with buttons on the outside of the car. I've had couple of those cars and the keyless system worked very well, it was useful.
What seems to be the case with some cars is that they claim to be keyless, but you still have a key type device, you still unlock the central locking as normal etc It's just more faffing about than a normal key. My grandfather (RIP) had a 2007/2008 era Honda Civid which he told me was keyless. You still had to unlock the car as normal, you then put the fob (a key without a blade) into the side of the steering column like a key, turn it, then foot on the brake and press the start button. What was the point, just a normal key would have been better.
I guess like with many things, manufacturers get their version of things spot on and others miss the mark a little.
My RS Megane from 2006 had keyless entry, as long as the fob was within a couple of feet of the car you could go up to a door handle and it would unlock the car. You get in, sit down, foot on clutch and press Start. It was as simple as that and you could get out and lock the car with buttons on the outside of the car. I've had couple of those cars and the keyless system worked very well, it was useful.
What seems to be the case with some cars is that they claim to be keyless, but you still have a key type device, you still unlock the central locking as normal etc It's just more faffing about than a normal key. My grandfather (RIP) had a 2007/2008 era Honda Civid which he told me was keyless. You still had to unlock the car as normal, you then put the fob (a key without a blade) into the side of the steering column like a key, turn it, then foot on the brake and press the start button. What was the point, just a normal key would have been better.
I guess like with many things, manufacturers get their version of things spot on and others miss the mark a little.
V88Dicky said:
RS Grant said:
Totally agree... it's not for me.
But what's worse is cars which haven't had keyless entry/locking specified, but also don't have an ignition key/card slot. So you have to get the key out to unlock the car, get in and either throw the key in the door card, cubby or a cup holder then push a button to start and again to stop, pick up the key, get out the car and then lock the car with it.
It's a first world problem, but it's irritating and more hassle than the traditional key/ignition was IMO.
Cheers,
Grant
Were you the previous owner of my car? But what's worse is cars which haven't had keyless entry/locking specified, but also don't have an ignition key/card slot. So you have to get the key out to unlock the car, get in and either throw the key in the door card, cubby or a cup holder then push a button to start and again to stop, pick up the key, get out the car and then lock the car with it.
It's a first world problem, but it's irritating and more hassle than the traditional key/ignition was IMO.
Cheers,
Grant
The first owner ticked the box for 'Luxury Performance (Aluminium)' interior (£2500), 20" alloys (£1000+), Adaptive Headlights etc, but didn't bother with the £200 Keyless Entry!
...it does seem silly, may have been an oversight? When my mum ordered a BMW some years ago, she ticked the navigation, upgrade wheels, etc.. and forgot to tick the automatic wipers/lights option, which was something ridiculous like a £95 option. What made it worse was the fact that I looked over her selection before she confirmed the order and I missed it too.
Sheepshanks said:
RS Grant said:
But what's worse is cars which haven't had keyless entry/locking specified, but also don't have an ignition key/card slot. So you have to get the key out to unlock the car, get in and either throw the key in the door card, cubby or a cup holder then push a button to start and again to stop, pick up the key, get out the car and then lock the car with it.
The Passat Alltracks in the recent lease glitch are like that. I thought they had keyless entry but apparently not, it's just keyless start.Cheers,
Grant
Muddle238 said:
I have keyless entry and I find it overall, a much better system than having a physical key. The car unlocks when my fingers contact the touch pad inside any of the door handles, and will lock when I brush the outer edge of the door handle. This means that I don't need to fumble around in my pocket looking for the key, or trying to separate a smaller key from a bunch of keys. The next benefit is that once inside the car, I don't need to find an ignition slot. I can leave the key in my pocket and just push the START button, and off I go.
You say it as if finding a key in a pocket and finding an ignition slot are akin to climbing K2 and Everest!It's a solution to a problem we didn't really have, and created many more along the way.
Antony Moxey said:
It's the half systems that are the problem. On my XF you needed to blip the fob to lock and unlock the car but it had a stop start button, so you needed the fob out of your pocket but then had to find somewhere to put it when in the car - none of this leave in the pocket and forget mullarkey.
It depends on the trim level of your XF. The higher ones like the Portfolio had full keyless entry and go, no fob blipping required. As with the Ford mentioned elsewhere, you pull the door handle to unlock the car and open the door, get in and hold the start/stop button to fire up the engine. Press the button to stop the engine, get out, close the door and press the door button to lock.Edited by Antony Moxey on Tuesday 24th May 09:17
There's a little slot to the lower right of the steering column where you "dock" the fob, although I normally use the armrest cubby as it's attached to my housekeys.
The brand new Evoque I had as a hire car last year had an annoying half system too, fob to unlock and button to start, which was surprising given how much they cost.
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