last of the reliable Mercedes
Discussion
Mercedes reliability on the various models does depend a lot on which engine and transmission as some are renowned for issues and others are equally renowned for no issues.
For example the M111 engine has issues with an oil leak into the loom from the camshaft variable timing actuator. This eventually reqiures the loom to be cleaned or replaced and can cause O2 sensor or MAF issues.
The M271 engine is renowned for having cam chain gears made from cheese which causes high wear and slipping of teeth. They also suffer from the same camshaft actuator issue as the M111.
On the other hand the M112 and M113 and M119 engines are almost indestructible.
Similarly some autoboxes (some 5 speeds) have issues with the speed sensor plate in the bottom of the gearbox. Whilst not a huge issue its very common. Other gearboxes (7 speed is notorious) can have very poor shifts especially when cold and whilst this isn't linked to reliability it does detract from the vehicle.
For example the M111 engine has issues with an oil leak into the loom from the camshaft variable timing actuator. This eventually reqiures the loom to be cleaned or replaced and can cause O2 sensor or MAF issues.
The M271 engine is renowned for having cam chain gears made from cheese which causes high wear and slipping of teeth. They also suffer from the same camshaft actuator issue as the M111.
On the other hand the M112 and M113 and M119 engines are almost indestructible.
Similarly some autoboxes (some 5 speeds) have issues with the speed sensor plate in the bottom of the gearbox. Whilst not a huge issue its very common. Other gearboxes (7 speed is notorious) can have very poor shifts especially when cold and whilst this isn't linked to reliability it does detract from the vehicle.
Edited by lostkiwi on Tuesday 24th May 11:52
I think it's durability rather than reliability that is the particular characteristic of Mercs of a "certain age". They've never had the awesome reliability of, say, 90's Hondas. But they are designed to be maintained: they're simple cars, easy to work on, with well-designed fixings and attachments. For instance, the steering box -never the last word in precision- is nonetheless very long-lived, because it can have play from wear adjusted out.
I think a good late 190 is still a practical daily car, especially if you have any mechanical ability and enough interest to sort out small things yourself (I would say that though, having just bought a W126 as a daily..!) All wear items are available cheaply, and other parts are mostly available. They're simple. Even major jobs like full suspension rebushing (because 25 year old rubber bushes are getting tired now) needn't be expensive, and then you have a car fresh for another two decades.
The more I've worked on these cars, the more I've appreciated them, for the brilliant design from the inside out. It really does feel as if corners weren't really cut anywhere: everything is designed to last, and to be maintained.
I think a good late 190 is still a practical daily car, especially if you have any mechanical ability and enough interest to sort out small things yourself (I would say that though, having just bought a W126 as a daily..!) All wear items are available cheaply, and other parts are mostly available. They're simple. Even major jobs like full suspension rebushing (because 25 year old rubber bushes are getting tired now) needn't be expensive, and then you have a car fresh for another two decades.
The more I've worked on these cars, the more I've appreciated them, for the brilliant design from the inside out. It really does feel as if corners weren't really cut anywhere: everything is designed to last, and to be maintained.
Edited by Jodyone on Tuesday 24th May 20:37
Of all the Mercedes I have owned they have all been reliable.
All of them suffered from cosmetic rust to one degree or another but nothing structural.
The 190 was rusting mainly due to age rather than design or manufacture & is the one I regret selling the most.
Both C classes (w202) were reliable but both rusted in the normal places.
The C250td is a very good car for general use & in the 10 years plus of ownership never let me down.
In fairness non of the Mercedes ever failed to start or get me where I wanted to go and get home again.
All of them suffered from cosmetic rust to one degree or another but nothing structural.
The 190 was rusting mainly due to age rather than design or manufacture & is the one I regret selling the most.
Both C classes (w202) were reliable but both rusted in the normal places.
The C250td is a very good car for general use & in the 10 years plus of ownership never let me down.
In fairness non of the Mercedes ever failed to start or get me where I wanted to go and get home again.
We've had several in the family from the W210 onwards... All have been reliable.
First was a 1997 E230 Estate - Dad took that up to 240k miles, then gave it to my sister who ran it for another 2-3 years until she wrote it off.
Dad replaced it with a 2002 '52 plate E430 Estate. Lovely 4.3 V8. It's now done 170k miles, still in the family, and no rust.
We also run new W212's as company cars.
First was a 1997 E230 Estate - Dad took that up to 240k miles, then gave it to my sister who ran it for another 2-3 years until she wrote it off.
Dad replaced it with a 2002 '52 plate E430 Estate. Lovely 4.3 V8. It's now done 170k miles, still in the family, and no rust.
We also run new W212's as company cars.
I recently purchased a 2002 E320 CDI (W211). I've read the horror stories, I'm aware of their problem areas but like many cars out there you only hear the negatives. This example has 103k on the clock so has averaged about 8k a year and has had a good life with no expense spared on maintenance and keeping it tidy.
I know you'll often read that whole, 'drives like new' on a car with 200k on the clock but in all honesty this E class is still quiet, refined, comfortable and it starts and runs as well as my CLS which has 17k on the clock. The only real give away that it's and older car is that the headlights need polishing and the wheels have bubbled so will be re-painted soon.
I took the car on holiday the week after I bought it, did 700 miles in it without hitch. I'd heard about Mercedes reliability taking a dip and being on the up but certainly the way this E class feels at least, puts that image to rest in my mind.
P.S - I let you know in 6 months if I have any regrets! haha
I know you'll often read that whole, 'drives like new' on a car with 200k on the clock but in all honesty this E class is still quiet, refined, comfortable and it starts and runs as well as my CLS which has 17k on the clock. The only real give away that it's and older car is that the headlights need polishing and the wheels have bubbled so will be re-painted soon.
I took the car on holiday the week after I bought it, did 700 miles in it without hitch. I'd heard about Mercedes reliability taking a dip and being on the up but certainly the way this E class feels at least, puts that image to rest in my mind.
P.S - I let you know in 6 months if I have any regrets! haha
simonr100 said:
W124, it looks lovely too.
Whats not to like 
http://www.euroclassicmotors.com/galleries/500e199...
k-ink said:
cb1965 said:
W123s, W124s etc. are all too old now to use as dailys
If it's reliability and cheap running costs you're after I would forget about Merc. Some of the models are plain bad design wise and others while reliable up to a point will cost a lot when they do go wrong.
My good friend runs a small independent garage and has done so for 30 odd years. When I ask him about the luxury brans he smiles wistfully. As he would say if you want a reliable luxury car get a Lexus, if you want a reliable luxury car with prestige get a Jaguar and if you want luxury, prestige and a badge get a BMW, but whatever you do don't get a Merc!
I have a Merc in the garage btw so this is said with no bias! In fact when I bought it he told me it would cost me a fortune..... it's cost me a fortune LOL!
My long term lovely mechanics tell much the same thing.If it's reliability and cheap running costs you're after I would forget about Merc. Some of the models are plain bad design wise and others while reliable up to a point will cost a lot when they do go wrong.
My good friend runs a small independent garage and has done so for 30 odd years. When I ask him about the luxury brans he smiles wistfully. As he would say if you want a reliable luxury car get a Lexus, if you want a reliable luxury car with prestige get a Jaguar and if you want luxury, prestige and a badge get a BMW, but whatever you do don't get a Merc!
I have a Merc in the garage btw so this is said with no bias! In fact when I bought it he told me it would cost me a fortune..... it's cost me a fortune LOL!
I think a lot of the W124s reputation has perhaps run out now, just as they are so old, perhaps based on very nice ones or ten year old info, they are all twenty plus years old, probably the pinnacle of built in quality, engineering and enough modernity so it isnt properly old fashned with carbs etc, but time and miles stll add up, dont assume it will be bulletproof, check it over like any old car.
Any of the facelifts.
Most of the facelift cars have been ultra reliable, I can't think of any that can't do mega miles if serviced properly.
It is the early cars that tended to have more issues, but even those have probably had the issues sorted.
The pre facelift w211 had valeo radiators that could crack and leak glycol into the transmission, but even those will have failed already or been replaced, plus those cars had SBC brakes, 400k pedal presses then a new pump needed at £900-1800 depending on where it is done. A facelifted 211 (from MY07 build) is a sure bet imho, even more so if you go with the 56 plate one before DPF was added or the petrol.
Most of the facelift cars have been ultra reliable, I can't think of any that can't do mega miles if serviced properly.
It is the early cars that tended to have more issues, but even those have probably had the issues sorted.
The pre facelift w211 had valeo radiators that could crack and leak glycol into the transmission, but even those will have failed already or been replaced, plus those cars had SBC brakes, 400k pedal presses then a new pump needed at £900-1800 depending on where it is done. A facelifted 211 (from MY07 build) is a sure bet imho, even more so if you go with the 56 plate one before DPF was added or the petrol.
gizlaroc said:
Any of the facelifts.
Most of the facelift cars have been ultra reliable, I can't think of any that can't do mega miles if serviced properly.
It is the early cars that tended to have more issues, but even those have probably had the issues sorted.
The pre facelift w211 had valeo radiators that could crack and leak glycol into the transmission, but even those will have failed already or been replaced, plus those cars had SBC brakes, 400k pedal presses then a new pump needed at £900-1800 depending on where it is done. A facelifted 211 (from MY07 build) is a sure bet imho, even more so if you go with the 56 plate one before DPF was added or the petrol.
I have a 219 CLS which is basically a 211, seems ok so far, its the air suspension that is my main concern but the engine seems pretty solid, oh and it has a creaky front suspension component, but is 8 years old with 113k so not overly fussed, I purposefully avoided the SBC cars and got one that didnt have the chocolate timing gear, impressed so far.Most of the facelift cars have been ultra reliable, I can't think of any that can't do mega miles if serviced properly.
It is the early cars that tended to have more issues, but even those have probably had the issues sorted.
The pre facelift w211 had valeo radiators that could crack and leak glycol into the transmission, but even those will have failed already or been replaced, plus those cars had SBC brakes, 400k pedal presses then a new pump needed at £900-1800 depending on where it is done. A facelifted 211 (from MY07 build) is a sure bet imho, even more so if you go with the 56 plate one before DPF was added or the petrol.
The W210 was /is actually a very reliable car. Rust - another issue! I run an E300 TD as a daily and *touch wood* its great. Last of the big indirect injection diesels (OM606). All tried and tested stuff, easy to work on. Luckily the rust was fixed under warranty many years back.
I wouldn't say a W124/201 era car is too old to daily at all (I've done it with success) but you would have to buy carefully and prepare to splash the cash undoing a backlog of maintenance. Even on a sound car, changing suspension parts, engine mounts, propshaft joints etc etc all adds up.
I wouldn't say a W124/201 era car is too old to daily at all (I've done it with success) but you would have to buy carefully and prepare to splash the cash undoing a backlog of maintenance. Even on a sound car, changing suspension parts, engine mounts, propshaft joints etc etc all adds up.
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