RE: Aston Martin V8 Vantage GMR Supercharged

[bakerstreet]

I've always preferred the V8 Vantage to the V12. Never really liked the air vents on the bonnet of the V12. However I appreciate that they are there as a necessity.

If I won the euromillions tomorrow, I would certainly pay for that conversion

[ManOpener]

300bhp/ton said:

Ford Mod engines...

From what I can tell, most of the supercharger kits for the Ford Mod are displacement specific. Can you point me to these universal ones?

300bhp/ton said:

There is also a company in the UK that makes and adapter to fit the Roots blower from an R53 MINI to fit a classic Mini and A Series, as a 'bolt on' kit.

That's not really the same though, is it? It kind of demonstrates the point I'm making. If you've got to build an adapter kit to fit them, then it's not interchangeable is it?

Oh and:

Max_Torque said:

300bhp/ton said:

Re: the Aston AJ's. Can anyone confirm or deny if things like the intake manifold are universal fitting?

Did you miss my earlier post or simply fail to remember what it said???

The AJ42 and AM05 share pretty much nothing. iirc, they share a few fasteners, and that's about it! You cant bolt any jag intake / exhaust bits on, because the heads are completely different (intake / exhaust ports are in different places and different sizes / orientations) iirc, cylinder head bolt spacing IS the carried over, but cooling passages are different, so head gasket is different, and you can't fit any of the jags cam train to the aston)

( And btw, i was on the team who designed and developed the car/engine way back in 2001 and then again in '03 (it was started before the DB9, but shelved for a while to allow the db9 dev to be finished!)

That kind of settles it then

[JohnG1]

Not this again!

This has been done to death over on the Aston Martin forum.

I have offered £50 to Help for Heroes if anyone who was responsible for this will take a few hours to debate this with BamfordMike from Bamford Rose. The offer still stands. And if anyone is serious about this, I can show evidence of what I have raised for H4H in the past.

If you buy this "package" and drive it you'll end up with some pretty serious problems:
(1) The clutch in a 4.3 V8 will not handle the torque. It's a weak link. Even with a standard 4.3 the clutch gets smelly in reverse gear. The V12V has a twin plate part that's more expensive but can handle the extra torque. Labour plus part via AML main dealer for V12V clutch supply and fit is about £4000.
(2) The gearbox is the same as the V12V but the V12 has a gearbox oil cooler - the 4.3 V8 does not. Why do you think AML fitted a gearbox oil cooler to the V12V? And what will happen if you overheat the gearbox? £15,000 for a reconditioned gearbox from Aston Martin. Plus labour...
(3) Would love to see what endurance testing they have done. Such as driving round Millbrook in 4th gear at the redline for a few hours, the sort of thing an OEM does.
(4) Compression ratios. Without changing any parts the supercharged V8V will have the same compression ratio as standard. In the OEM world forced induction involves reduction of compression ratio. What do these folks know what AML don't??
(5) A supercharger pushes more air into the engine. The engine is effectively an air pump. No mention of any assistance with the exhaust system - how is that going to work?

Wonder if these folks offer a real warranty that includes the downstream parts that the extra torque generated will damage? Or do they warranty their parts only and so if you overheat the gearbox then it's on your head?

[anonymous-user]

JohnG1 said:

Not this again!

This has been done to death over on the Aston Martin forum.

I have offered £50 to Help for Heroes if anyone who was responsible for this will take a few hours to debate this with BamfordMike from Bamford Rose. The offer still stands. And if anyone is serious about this, I can show evidence of what I have raised for H4H in the past.

If you buy this "package" and drive it you'll end up with some pretty serious problems:
(1) The clutch in a 4.3 V8 will not handle the torque. It's a weak link. Even with a standard 4.3 the clutch gets smelly in reverse gear. The V12V has a twin plate part that's more expensive but can handle the extra torque. Labour plus part via AML main dealer for V12V clutch supply and fit is about £4000.
(2) The gearbox is the same as the V12V but the V12 has a gearbox oil cooler - the 4.3 V8 does not. Why do you think AML fitted a gearbox oil cooler to the V12V? And what will happen if you overheat the gearbox? £15,000 for a reconditioned gearbox from Aston Martin. Plus labour...
(3) Would love to see what endurance testing they have done. Such as driving round Millbrook in 4th gear at the redline for a few hours, the sort of thing an OEM does.
(4) Compression ratios. Without changing any parts the supercharged V8V will have the same compression ratio as standard. In the OEM world forced induction involves reduction of compression ratio. What do these folks know what AML don't??
(5) A supercharger pushes more air into the engine. The engine is effectively an air pump. No mention of any assistance with the exhaust system - how is that going to work?

Wonder if these folks offer a real warranty that includes the downstream parts that the extra torque generated will damage? Or do they warranty their parts only and so if you overheat the gearbox then it's on your head?

The V8V originally had a higher rated clutch pack, but it was deemed too "heavy and juddery" during development and got binned. That (multiplate) clutch pack is a std AP off-the-shelf part, and whilst it forms the basis of the V12 clutch, can be brought from AP for a LOT less than AML charge.

Gearbox oil cooler is only really needed when you are putting a high average power through the transmission, such as during continuous high speed running. In the UK, where it's hardly ever more than 20degC, and we have 70mph speed limits, it's not a big issue. The V8 box does have a cooler, but it's quite small and not as well ducted as the V12 version. Fitting the V12 parts is easy, or you could again fit any number of much cheaper custom parts etc. But unless you are doing lots of trackdays, or planning on making a star appearance on Police-Camera-Action, then i very much doubt you'd need too.

Increased power = increased loadings (mechanical and thermal). Whilst the base engine isn't super robust, it ain't terrible either. Within the remit of a road car, and hence the necessarily limited ability to continuously use the extra power, imo, it's probably not too much of a grenade!

Compression ratio's only need reducing when you are chasing maximum cylinder pressure at low rpms, or fully optimising for economy etc. A supercharger, unlike a turbo charger, generally is not used/sized to massively boost low rpm torque, as it is run at a fixed gear to the crankshaft. As long as fuel and ignition is re-calibrated to avoid excessive det or EGT, then the absolute value of the CR is pretty irrelevant

The exhaust on the V8V is actually pretty good (because they we chasing max output), and only the std 600cpsi catalysts are really any significant restriction. It will easily handle extra massflow, but aftermarket free flow cats are available, all the way down to 100cpsi if you really want max performance / noise etc

[thegreenhell]

Thank god there are some people around here who actually know what they're talking about.

[JohnG1]

So, as long as you use it at 70mph or below and don't go on track, it'll be tickety-boo is the summary of what max_torque says...

So no venturing to the green hell in that...

So is this fit for purpose? Doesn't sound like it...

Edited by JohnG1 on Monday 30th May 14:59

[k-ink]

If you are only going to drive it on the road there is no point going for anything more than a bog standard V8 anyway. For sheer performance anyway. If you love the silky smooth V12 delivery, then fair enough.

[ZX10R NIN]

JohnG1 said:

So, as long as you use it at 70mph or below and don't go on track, it'll be tickety-boo is the summary of what max_torque says...

So no venturing to the green hell in that...

So is this fit for purpose? Doesn't sound like it...

Edited by JohnG1 on Monday 30th May 14:59

Having had a supercharged RS4 I have to disagree with you I drove it hard & spent the day at Santa Pod's 1/4 mile on more than a few occasions (AP Triple Plate Clutch) the car with no problems & heard similar opinions on why the engine wouldn't last.
It done just fine & three years after selling it the current owner is getting on okay with it if it's done right the car will be fine & fit for having fun with.

[Impasse]

The article states that the demo car has done 80,000 miles since the conversion. Maybe those miles were all just popping out to Tesco, should we wait until it's done 800,000 before any comments about reliability are made?

FWIW, my (std) car is on 45k and is on its original clutch, a PHer in the AM area had his clutch replaced at 70k+ as a preventative measure. To suggest it's a weak link is exaggerating a little.

[k-ink]

I guess a clutch, rather like tyres, will last a different amount for different people. You could make tyres last years, or a day, just depending on how you treat them.

[Impasse]

But we've just been told categorically that the clutch on the V8V is a weak link and there's £50 to HTH riding on this!

[k-ink]

If you did dozens of drag standing starts nailing it to the max, then yes the clutch will suffer. The clutch is designed to be the weak part. That is kind of the point.

[aston580bhpgmr]

I have a GMR kit on my 2006 95,000 mile V8. 4.3 AM
It is awesome smooth and controllable and with the high flow exhaust the sound is truly emotional
Far better to spend the money than upgrade to a 4.7 car and get a slightly newer car

[Impasse]

k-ink said:

If you did dozens of drag standing starts nailing it to the max, then yes the clutch will suffer. The clutch is designed to be the weak part. That is kind of the point.

Oh, absolutely yes. It's very tricky to engineer a way around a clumsy or abusive operator but to suggest that it's a weak point that is a flaw is incorrect.
Mind you, the same person also claimed that a V8V has no gearbox cooler so maybe we should heed their obvious expertise.

On an unrelated matter, here's an old picture of my mechanically standard V8V. If you look carefully through that mesh you won't see a trace of a seven row transmission oil cooler.

[divetheworld]

Impasse said:

Oh, absolutely yes. It's very tricky to engineer a way around a clumsy or abusive operator but to suggest that it's a weak point that is a flaw is incorrect.
Mind you, the same person also claimed that a V8V has no gearbox cooler so maybe we should heed their obvious expertise.

On an unrelated matter, here's an old picture of my mechanically standard V8V. If you look carefully through that mesh you won't see a trace of a seven row transmission oil cooler.

Gee, how odd!! Here's a pic of my old 4.3 and my old 4.7 arse end. If you look carefully, mine are both fitted with the same cooler by mistake

Edited by divetheworld on Monday 30th May 20:49

[ZX10R NIN]

you lucky buggers Aston must've made a mistake at the factory.

[SlimJim16v]

Wouldn't a g/box cooler be at the front? At the back is more likely to be a diff cooler.

[Impasse]

SlimJim16v said:

Wouldn't a g/box cooler be at the front? At the back is more likely to be a diff cooler.

Why? The rear mounted gearbox is only short distance from the cooler. Running the gearbox cooler at the front would involve quite a bit of pipework.
For someone with so many opinions on this article you seem to know very little about the subject matter.

[SlimJim16v]

Nope, didn't know the g/box was at the back.

[anonymous-user]

VH Platform cars are transaxle, ie have the gearbox and diff in a single unit, at the rear, driven by a carbon prop contained in a cast torque tube that holds the engine/trans together: