Car insurance for 21yo on a GT-R?

[Petrus1983]

BlackST said:

I highly doubt it would be £17 a day to have a 21 year old on a GTR as temp insurance
Probably look at £100+ in this day and age?

Quite probably, could be the easiest things to try first though. It does seem ashame if something can't get sorted out as I have great memories, plus I drove FAR more carefully than my Pug 205 that was my other car at the time

[Tuvra]

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[Vaud]

Petrus1983 said:

Quite probably, could be the easiest things to try first though. It does seem ashame if something can't get sorted out as I have great memories, plus I drove FAR more carefully than my Pug 205 that was my other car at the time

Picking a policy at random (aviva day insure) and given the OP has a modded exhaust:

• Any vehicles that have undergone any post manufacturer ‘after market fit’ modification (cosmetic or performance related) are not acceptable.

[Rtype]

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This Claim and lack of real world understanding about what is 'achievable performance' has amused me so much I want to further rubbish your claim with facts.

Firstly, the Boxster. Now lets be realllllly generous and say he is lucky enough to be on a NEW 718 2.5S
value wise, comparable.

Performance wise - 0-60: 4.3
Handling wise - Lol
0-100 didn't bother, its not going to compete.
Delivery of power, 2wd vs 4wd, no launch control etc

Now understand, this is the best case Boxster scenario. Likelihood is it will be on a lower spec model, with much worse performance figures.

Secondly the Elise. Now lets be realistic, and say it is a 118 R.
Performance - 0-60: 4.9
0-100 didn't bother, its not going to compete
Delivery of power, 2wd vs 4wd, no launch control etc

Now, the performance, of a POVERTY spec GTR.

Performance - 0.60 2.9
0-100 just over 10
4wd with launch control, dsg you name it. It is an out and out race car. And the point is, with all of the gadgets even the poverty spec has, all of it is 'accessible' to anyone.

You have to be trying in the other two, not the GTR.

They are worlds apart. I'd be looking for at least 12 months on a 911 C2 or M3/5 as a lower step in experience before I considered looking at it.

Its not an odd comment, there are two demographics of Joe Public - those who understand performance difference and those who have paid for 5 laps on a 'track day' and think they are Lewis Hamilton and are the best people to make that judgement. That is why I said I wouldn't insure you, I'd likely walk away from the business if you honestly believed what you said.

I wouldn't want to pay the claim.

Edited by Rtype on Wednesday 25th May 10:51

[sebhaque]

A buddy of mine very kindly lent me his (modified) GT-R for a week. It cost me just over £40 for a week's insurance, fully comp. I'm 25.

For comparison, I pay about £800 per year to insure my T350C. Mods declared, fully comp. I'm with Admiral.

ETA - at 21 I had an E46 M3, insured with Admiral too, and think I paid near enough £1000 for the privilege. Annoyingly it was more expensive than my modified VX220 that it replaced.

Edited by sebhaque on Wednesday 25th May 11:06

[Bradley1500]

Rtype - sorry to hijack this thread slightly, but I'm assuming you work for a company that offers insurance cover for performance and specialist cars?

The reason I ask is I'm struggling to insure my-21YO-self on a car I'm purchasing with my father. It isn't a performance car but an older specialist car - is this something you could help with? Or could you point me in the right direction of someone who can.

[otolith]

I don't think he was comparing the performance so much as the probability of it biting you on the arse. A 1960's Cobra isn't quite as quick as an RS6, but it's a lot less friendly. How that relates to the likelihood of a kid doing something stupid in one is another matter, loss of control due to unforgiving handling is one way of crashing, but so is just gathering more speed than you can get rid of in time.

[AyBee]

Rtype said:

Regarding the GTR, my questions would be firstly, what is the existing experience of the young driver? a civic type R, lotus elise, Boxster just wont cut it frankly, then to follow, if experience is sufficient, a quote is easy.

If you're sensible enough to know the limits of an Elise or Boxster, you're sensible enough to know the limits of a GTR, it's not about how quick the car is.

[AshBurrows]

Rtype said:

It is an out and out race car.

No it isn't. This is the most GTR post I've ever seen though so well done.

[Rtype]

Nanook said:

No, I do get 'accessible power'

Good.

Nanook said:

What I'm also getting is you trying to talk down to me, and I'm not sure why. You're making assumptions that I don't have much experience, that I've only done a few hot laps in a car at a track, you're jumping to silly conclusions, instead of perhaps asking appropriate questions.

Says the man laughing at my commute car. Who was the first to assume? I entered one of your threads to offer you advice & private help on your 'Ombudsman' claim before I saw someone else had done so and recommended the chap.

Nanook said:

I've hillclimbed 911s. And old Morgans, and hatchbacks, and Imprezas, and various other things I've owned. And done a whole load of track days, and lots of autotesting, and a whole bunch of other stuff.

But none that deliver power to 60 in 2.9 seconds with launch control and exceptional gearbox whilst sitting at traffic lights right?

Nanook said:

And my experience is, that if someone is competent in something like a quick Boxster, they'll be able to handle the jump to a GTR. If that wasn't the case, where are all the wrecked GTRs because people just can't handle it? How did I manage to go from a 150bhp Honda to a 320bhp+ Impreza that'd do 60 in less than 4.5, without killing myself?

Have you looked at payouts for these vehicles?
Are you stating that because of my statement I was saying everyone who doesn't have experience will immediately crash? Or was I saying, based on the scenario of a young driver with little experience, X would make Y quote Z for you?

Nanook said:

I know a chap that bought a standard GTR, sent it to some company in Bath, and it came back with just shy of double the power. Why isn't he dead, if we follow your logic?

I know people who own Bugattis, the same reason they aren't dead. The issue is margins for error and its not my log, its hard fact. Are you saying that if you went from a 60hp citroen c1 to a 120hp fiesta, that they are all going to die based on your primitive insight?

Nanook said:

One of my best mates owns a MINI. And yet, he's raced in the Grand Am series in the US, and won several UK championships

Then as I said in my very first comment, experience is subjective, hence why I'd ask the question, did you miss this by doing what you have done this whole thread? looking at things but not actually paying attention?

Nanook said:

Now I understand that insurance companies tend to work in black and white, I'm just pointing out that it's really not that black and white, perhaps you wouldn't insure someone that you didn't perceive to have the experience, based on the cars they own. I'm saying that's not the full picture.

This actually reflects my first comment. But actually they are far more flexible than you think, when you go with the right Brokers and insurers (see very first post in this thread)

[Tuvra]

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Who's talking about "driving on the edge?", most cars get wrapped up through stupidity, like when you "floor it" on a dual carriageway, hit 150mph before you know it and then think "Ohh fk" as the roundabout is hurtling towards you or some mong in a Hyundai pulls out on you without looking doing 50mph?

An Elise and a Boxster is a completely different proposition.

[Rtype]

otolith said:

I don't think he was comparing the performance so much as the probability of it biting you on the arse. A 1960's Cobra isn't quite as quick as an RS6, but it's a lot less friendly. How that relates to the likelihood of a kid doing something stupid in one is another matter, loss of control due to unforgiving handling is one way of crashing, but so is just gathering more speed than you can get rid of in time.

Exactly this.

AyBee said:

If you're sensible enough to know the limits of an Elise or Boxster, you're sensible enough to know the limits of a GTR, it's not about how quick the car is.

At 21, you are unlikely to know the real limits of said vehicle. Hence the asking for direct experience or a genuine idea of real world experience (see very first post in this topic)

AshBurrows said:

No it isn't. This is the most GTR post I've ever seen though so well done.

Granted not a BTCC car, or a race spec CSL, or a GT3, but I think this is 'clutching' You can make an old 318 an 'out and out race car' it was a figure of speech.

[JasperT]

Why does no one (including insurance companies) seem to understand that if you drive like a cock in any car, you WILL crash it when you find (exceed) the limit. The limit in a Vauxhall Corsa being much lower than in a GTR...

when being driven by a sensible individual in a sensible manner, I would argue the risk of an accident is MUCH lower in the GTR...

Also, fk off with all this 'can't handle it' bks, the throttle does not have to be wide open 100% of the time (GTR or otherwise)... and its not a switch.

[Rtype]

Nanook said:

I wasn't laughing at your car. I tried to make it quite clear that wasn't the case, and instead of assuming anything, I asked you a question.

My error, flicking in-between screens whilst working.

Nanook said:

No. The fastest car I've driven on the road does 60 in 2.8 seconds, but it doesn't have launch control, so you've got me there...
You're really hung up on straight line figures. Most people don't crash their fast cars going in a straight line you know?

The thing here which I feel you are getting caught up on, is that, experience wise, a young driver simply doesn't have the real world experience of handling that. 0-60 in real world is a valid tool. What is going to be the hardest, for a 17-21 y.o to crash, a Citroen C1 booting it, or a GTR?

Nanook said:

Have I looked at payouts? No. I don't care.
I believe you actually said you wouldn't provide a quote, that's not the same as saying "based on the scenario of a young driver with little experience, X would make Y quote Z for you"

Actually, my first post, asked about the young drivers experience, but you apparently haven't read that.

Nanoonk said:

Primitive insight? I'm not the one making these claims about jumps in power being such a big deal, that was you, so perhaps try and keep it civil?

It is a big deal, to keep this in perspective, for a 21 y.o with no experience. If it isn't, will you agree to indemnify TP claims comp damage & personal injury for £1,500? If so, I'll create a TOBA.

Now in your perspective, not a 21 y.o driving this, clearly with forms of experience in the vehicles, £1,500 sounds unreasonable and rightly so.

Nanoonk said:

I've read your first comment. That's not what it said. Again with the hostility, it's possible to have a debate without getting your panties in a twist.

when you haven't actually read my first contributions to this thread this is hard to comment on

Nanook said:

You seem to be itching for a fight here, when there's really none to be had. I was giving my opinion on the cars in question, having driven them all enough to get a decent feel for how they behave.

I am not itching for a fight here.

It feels like you are arguing the case for yourself, with, lets be honest, years of relative experience, to a 21 y.o who is likely not to have this, as I keep saying, my first contribution was saying dependant on experience, my response to you was not my first post.

[Sump]

Nothing to do with experience. It's just a question of maturity and whether your son is a moron or not.

Coming from someone who had a 330d at 18 and a 996 S at 21 (without the PSC.)

Regarding insurance, fleet may be the way, it's how I got into mine.

[FredClogs]

I don't work or know anything of the insurance industry, risk analyses or owt about being an actuary... But I've got to assume insurance groups and premiums are based on risk analysis from data, you've be a fool hardy insurance broker to bet your money on the risk of an event happening because of some fluffy feeling that some 21 year old kid had especially good driving skills or exceptional restraint. Let's face is 99% of young men put into a supercar are going to boot the thing when they hit the first stretch of road even remotely suitable, I know I would and I'm not young (although I am young at heart)

[Rtype]

Nanook said:

You say that in your first post, which you seem to be quite sure I haven't read, you state that experience is subjective, and that you asked about the young drivers experience.

You mean this first post?

Rtype said:

The comment above is rubbish. Bespoke insurers & brokers will, if you speak to the right ones, offer you an accompanied driving warranty dependant on the young drivers experience.

You can get cover, without question, however, standard market and call centres pretending to be brokers are not going to help you.

I quoted recently, on a 4 vehicle fleet, a 22 year old on a 911 GT2 (accompanied driver), whole policy was £3990 for the 4 (included him named on a RS4)

I also quoted recently on a 3 car risk, a 21 y.o on a 599, Gallardo spider & gran turismo, whilst they were doing limited mileage in this case, I could get cover. You need a proper broker. Not a comparison rubbish policy.

Cos, I don't see it.

Try the first two lines and read in context with the posts above it, dependant is the key word here.

Nanook said:

Undoubtedly, the C1 made of straw in this instance, is less likely to be stuffed than a GTR. I'm stating that in my opinion, based on experience of driving the cars mentioned earlier on, an inexperienced driver is much more likely to be caught out by something that is mid-engined and RWD, as opposed to something front engined and 4WD, full of yaw control, stability control, and all manner of electrical wizardry.

But you aren't 21 and is it likely this 21 y.o has this? The keyword in my quoted post was 'Dependant'

Nanoonk said:

Do I want to agree to some stuff for you to create a TOBA, of course not. I'm not trying to insure a car. We get you work in insurance, you can stop trying to make it sound so glamorous and important now

The irony is, it isn't glamorous, or even jargon. IF you are willing to put your money where your mouth is, I have a whole wad full of people who will accept your offer of indemnity. If its no problem offer this service and make a fortune. The joke here is, that if it isn't as I said, you'd be a millionaire.

So Nanook. Put your money where your mouth is, would you accept this 21 y.o, with only daily driving experience on a 2.7 Boxster?

Nanook said:

I think we're done here, my driving experience is telling me something that the 0-60 times you're quoting does not.

Yes your experience does, but the 21 year olds might not, we don't deal in frilly feelings, just facts and the facts back it up, as does our money.

Nanook said:

This might be my last post here, my previous car had 140bhp, my current one has 300. I'll probably die on the way home in some traffic light grand prix related incident.

This evidences you fall into the latter demographic I referred to in my earlier post.

We simply will agree to disagree, however, I'm sure it won't be long until we see another post in SP&L saying the insurance world is out to get me.

[Rtype]

FredClogs said:

I don't work or know anything of the insurance industry, risk analyses or owt about being an actuary... But I've got to assume insurance groups and premiums are based on risk analysis from data, you've be a fool hardy insurance broker to bet your money on the risk of an event happening because of some fluffy feeling that some 21 year old kid had especially good driving skills or exceptional restraint. Let's face is 99% of young men put into a supercar are going to boot the thing when they hit the first stretch of road even remotely suitable, I know I would and I'm not young (although I am young at heart)

You are spot on.

[dcartner]

Couldn't provide me with the details of who quoted you on the 4 vehicle fleet? We're looking at doing something similar. Cheers in advance!

Rtype said:

The comment above is rubbish. Bespoke insurers & brokers will, if you speak to the right ones, offer you an accompanied driving warranty dependant on the young drivers experience.

You can get cover, without question, however, standard market and call centres pretending to be brokers are not going to help you.

I quoted recently, on a 4 vehicle fleet, a 22 year old on a 911 GT2 (accompanied driver), whole policy was £3990 for the 4 (included him named on a RS4)

I also quoted recently on a 3 car risk, a 21 y.o on a 599, Gallardo spider & gran turismo, whilst they were doing limited mileage in this case, I could get cover. You need a proper broker. Not a comparison rubbish policy.

[ZOLLAR]

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Oi!

I'm feckin' hilarious I'll have you know