Any questions for Les Edgar?
Discussion
Byker28i said:
fatjon said:
Do they plan to support existing TVR owners with parts or are we to rely on the current outlet selling Chinese pattern copies of dubious quality with many parts not available at all. I think if they want to sell me a new TVR they had better demonstrate some support to existing owners or I have a suspicion what my shiny new TVR will be worth in a few years.
Dom, is this you?Windscreens I think are in short supply, not sure other parts are. I've had no issue and I've changed rather a lot on mine recently
If you are stuck for windscreens give the above a call, very useful for hard to find windscreens.
gary58 said:
Apart from the die hard TVR lovers - how are you going to convince the public to part with £xx,xxx on your car when the V8 sportscar space is attracting a lot of attention.
I imagine the Mustang is giving him nightmares. Even more so if Mountune start making blowers available under Ford warranty.Equus said:
99Chimaera said:
Will the new TVR have a ladder frame chassis and a fibreglass body as the Chimaera and Griffith etc?
The Grimaera didn't have a ladder frame, it had a backbone chassis. They are quite different things.I think it's a fair bet that the new car will use Murray's iStream concept, which is essentially a simple, untriangulated spaceframe using stressed composite sandwich panels to replace the triangulation.
Is Gordon Murry's design company going to be involved long term or will vehicle design be bought in house at some point.
How will TVR embrace emerging technology and will that also be part of the brands evolution? The cars have got to have wider appeal than the current TVR community and technology has to be part of that story.
I've owned TVR's for 20 years and they're great. I still have both of the cars I've bought and don't plan to sell. I have one space left in the garage. How is Les going to convince me to fill that space with the new TVR rather than a McLaren which is where my inclination is currently leading me.
How will TVR embrace emerging technology and will that also be part of the brands evolution? The cars have got to have wider appeal than the current TVR community and technology has to be part of that story.
I've owned TVR's for 20 years and they're great. I still have both of the cars I've bought and don't plan to sell. I have one space left in the garage. How is Les going to convince me to fill that space with the new TVR rather than a McLaren which is where my inclination is currently leading me.
Fetchez la vache said:
450Nick said:
Will there be an option to remove any electronic aids at point of sale to make a "real" TVR (delete ABS, TC etc)?
Unless they make less than 500 cars I don't believe selling without ABS is a legal option, since 2004. I imagine their plans hope for > 500 a year...
But really, do you not want ABS on a >£65k >400bhp sports car? I'd say ABS is the MINIMUM i'd want........
Max_Torque said:
What makes Les think he can "Make it work" at this "middle" price point, when historically, no one else has managed to do it??
The sports car market is viable in 4 zones:
1) Hyper cars, Build between 1 and several hundred, but they cost >£1M each so we can juuuuust about afford to develop one if we nick a load of parts from other models in the range (P1,LaLa, 918 etc)
2) Supercars. build perhaps high hundreds to low thousands, they cost between £150K and £300K
3) "Everyday" supercars, build thousands (think 911 turbo etc), they cost between £100K and £150K
4) Mass produced performance, build tens of thousands, between £25k and ~£60k. Thinks like GT86 up to M3s etc. The cheaper it is, the more you have to build, and the more parts/tech must be borrowed from within your other product range
There is one exception, which is the ultrabasic track day market car that can sit between £50K and £80K, but has to be properly basic to cover its costs (Mono, atom etc)
As "new TVR" volumes will be low, there aren't any gaps i can see where you can build a fully featured modern car and have it cost less than about £125k (ish). How does TVR think it can do this??
I tend to agree. However, Lotus and Morgan both operate in this 'empty zone' and manage to sell a couple of hundred units a year at this level. Neither business model is particularly efficient when you look at them against the mass market firms but they still hold a profit margin in their units. The sports car market is viable in 4 zones:
1) Hyper cars, Build between 1 and several hundred, but they cost >£1M each so we can juuuuust about afford to develop one if we nick a load of parts from other models in the range (P1,LaLa, 918 etc)
2) Supercars. build perhaps high hundreds to low thousands, they cost between £150K and £300K
3) "Everyday" supercars, build thousands (think 911 turbo etc), they cost between £100K and £150K
4) Mass produced performance, build tens of thousands, between £25k and ~£60k. Thinks like GT86 up to M3s etc. The cheaper it is, the more you have to build, and the more parts/tech must be borrowed from within your other product range
There is one exception, which is the ultrabasic track day market car that can sit between £50K and £80K, but has to be properly basic to cover its costs (Mono, atom etc)
As "new TVR" volumes will be low, there aren't any gaps i can see where you can build a fully featured modern car and have it cost less than about £125k (ish). How does TVR think it can do this??
I'd say that if they were going to be building them in the old way then it would be a farce in regards to huge cost and poor quality. So my question would be about additional details of the iStream process and what it really saves in man hours and adds in build quality. I'd like to hear an explanation without the faggotty marketing b
ks that swamps everything currently written about iStream as if the world is comprised of polo necked, butt plugged connoisseurs of late night small dog walking who think something sounds superior if you use 100 words when one will do. DonkeyApple said:
I'd like to hear an explanation without the faggotty marketing bks that swamps everything currently written about iStream as if the world is comprised of polo necked, butt plugged connoisseurs of late night small dog walking who think something sounds superior if you use 100 words when one will do.
Yup. Enough of the smoke and mirrors. Where's the car and how much is it?ks that swamps everything currently written about iStream as if the world is comprised of polo necked, butt plugged connoisseurs of late night small dog walking who think something sounds superior if you use 100 words when one will do. Ozzie Osmond said:
DonkeyApple said:
I'd like to hear an explanation without the faggotty marketing bks that swamps everything currently written about iStream as if the world is comprised of polo necked, butt plugged connoisseurs of late night small dog walking who think something sounds superior if you use 100 words when one will do.
Yup. Enough of the smoke and mirrors. Where's the car and how much is it?ks that swamps everything currently written about iStream as if the world is comprised of polo necked, butt plugged connoisseurs of late night small dog walking who think something sounds superior if you use 100 words when one will do. Ozzie Osmond said:
DonkeyApple said:
I'd like to hear an explanation without the faggotty marketing bks that swamps everything currently written about iStream as if the world is comprised of polo necked, butt plugged connoisseurs of late night small dog walking who think something sounds superior if you use 100 words when one will do.
Yup. Enough of the smoke and mirrors. Where's the car and how much is it?ks that swamps everything currently written about iStream as if the world is comprised of polo necked, butt plugged connoisseurs of late night small dog walking who think something sounds superior if you use 100 words when one will do. What I'm interested in understanding is GM's iStream. It's all be wrapped up in fancy words but in reality it looks like a series of D&T work stations designed to allow cheap, unskilled labour to not balls up production speed and quality through their own inability and lack of care. But it would be very interesting to have a proper understanding put forward by someone capable of speaking sensible English and not speaking pure ponce.
Max_Torque said:
Low volume type approval in the UK allows this, hence Caterham etc can sell cars without ABS.
But really, do you not want ABS on a >£65k >400bhp sports car? I'd say ABS is the MINIMUM i'd want........
Yes, I mean I already have a >400bhp TVR without ABS and it is worth more to me than £65k. If I (and I do intend to once I've seen it and maybe driven a demo) buy one of the new TVRs and I go to drive it hard and I either brake hard and some assistance fiddles with the brake pedal, or I apply power in a bend and some assistance decides to reduce that power because I obviously made a mistake, then for me I'm not driving a TVR. But really, do you not want ABS on a >£65k >400bhp sports car? I'd say ABS is the MINIMUM i'd want........
One of the main draws of the marque is that it does not correct your mistakes, it does not interfere with the experience in any way. It's your job to learn to drive and to drive it properly. On my every day car (in my case a Golf), yes I love ABS and it's a great idea for being a nanny when I'm half awake and driving to work not paying attention to the daily commute. When I'm in the TVR, I'm there for the sole purpose of driving it, and I'm not asleep or not paying attention, so I don't want any nannies sitting on my shoulder!
DonkeyApple said:
Ozzie Osmond said:
DonkeyApple said:
I'd like to hear an explanation without the faggotty marketing bks that swamps everything currently written about iStream as if the world is comprised of polo necked, butt plugged connoisseurs of late night small dog walking who think something sounds superior if you use 100 words when one will do.
Yup. Enough of the smoke and mirrors. Where's the car and how much is it?ks that swamps everything currently written about iStream as if the world is comprised of polo necked, butt plugged connoisseurs of late night small dog walking who think something sounds superior if you use 100 words when one will do. What I'm interested in understanding is GM's iStream. It's all be wrapped up in fancy words but in reality it looks like a series of D&T work stations designed to allow cheap, unskilled labour to not balls up production speed and quality through their own inability and lack of care. But it would be very interesting to have a proper understanding put forward by someone capable of speaking sensible English and not speaking pure ponce.
The illustration doesn't quite look like that.
DonkeyApple said:
I'm not really worried about that. If there is a car then it will come along. If there isn't a car then it won't. I'm happy to see it when they are happy to show it. For price, I don't really care. If it's too expensive they won't sell any and it won't ever be cheap so it's really a matter of how far they can get it under £100k.
What I'm interested in understanding is GM's iStream. It's all be wrapped up in fancy words but in reality it looks like a series of D&T work stations designed to allow cheap, unskilled labour to not balls up production speed and quality through their own inability and lack of care. But it would be very interesting to have a proper understanding put forward by someone capable of speaking sensible English and not speaking pure ponce.
It's pure Emperor's New Clothes stuff. The premise is that the multi-billion dollar car companies have somehow missed a trick. It's the kind of thing only a beta male could come up with and only an idiot would find convincing.What I'm interested in understanding is GM's iStream. It's all be wrapped up in fancy words but in reality it looks like a series of D&T work stations designed to allow cheap, unskilled labour to not balls up production speed and quality through their own inability and lack of care. But it would be very interesting to have a proper understanding put forward by someone capable of speaking sensible English and not speaking pure ponce.
DonkeyApple said:
What I'm interested in understanding is GM's iStream. ... it would be very interesting to have a proper understanding put forward by someone capable of speaking sensible English and not speaking pure ponce.
These three links, together, should give you the basic information you require, but as I said earlier, it's basically a simple, untriangulated spaceframe that is panelised using cheap, composite sandwich panels to give it the stiffness that it would otherwise lack from not having any triangulation:iFrame
iPanels
iStream
dvs_dave said:
Equus said:
99Chimaera said:
Will the new TVR have a ladder frame chassis and a fibreglass body as the Chimaera and Griffith etc?
The Grimaera didn't have a ladder frame, it had a backbone chassis. They are quite different things.I think it's a fair bet that the new car will use Murray's iStream concept, which is essentially a simple, untriangulated spaceframe using stressed composite sandwich panels to replace the triangulation.
ORD said:
But doesn't it amount to 'We'll make a cheap as chips chassis and body, drop in a crate engine and charge you 100k for it'?
I think that's the real issue. To my mind that's what's made the mid-engine Ginetta G60 such a rare sight on the roads. It's not a bad car but it's simply not good enough to meet and beat Lotus, Porsche etc in the same price bracket.Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff