RE: Subaru Isle of Man TT car - new pictures
Discussion
Your base is the actual time, as I said earlier we wanted to see 128mph laps today after various issues best was a 125mph lap which is the only time we can use as a base because theoretical is exactly that theory, we have to deal in reality & the reality means we have 125mph Superstock bikes right now.
So you're expecting this car to beat the existing record by 10mph which is fine but stop with the 120mph lap chat as it's not needed & kind of belittles the effort MH made & Prodrive took to have a car acheive that laptime.
He had a long pedal the brakes weren't finished & he wasn't just relying on engine braking, a long pedal is irritating as it makes you second guess yourself & ebbs at your confidence in the car.
So you're expecting this car to beat the existing record by 10mph which is fine but stop with the 120mph lap chat as it's not needed & kind of belittles the effort MH made & Prodrive took to have a car acheive that laptime.
He had a long pedal the brakes weren't finished & he wasn't just relying on engine braking, a long pedal is irritating as it makes you second guess yourself & ebbs at your confidence in the car.
Edited by ZX10R NIN on Tuesday 31st May 08:13
Welshbeef said:
Appreciate that however we need a base otherwise if they have a perfect UB in this new car then the step change will be overstated due to not achieving its potential on the old time.
But they've only managed 117mph so that's the base. What's the point of using theory when the practice proves otherwise?Facts are facts:
Super bike : 132 mph
Super twin (650cc) : 120 mph
Subaru : 117 mph
Side car (600cc) : 116 mph
http://www.iomtt.com/TT-Database/TT-Records/Lap-Re...
So in reality the car is nowhere in its ability to get any sort of lap record except against itself.
Edited by anonymous-user on Tuesday 31st May 08:26
wormus said:
Welshbeef said:
Appreciate that however we need a base otherwise if they have a perfect UB in this new car then the step change will be overstated due to not achieving its potential on the old time.
But they've only managed 117mph so that's the base. What's the point of using theory when the practice proves otherwise?Facts are facts:
Super bike : 132 mph
Super twin (650cc) : 120 mph
Subaru : 117 mph
Side car (600cc) : 116 mph
http://www.iomtt.com/TT-Database/TT-Records/Lap-Re...
So in reality the car is nowhere in its ability to get any sort of lap record except against itself.
Edited by wormus on Tuesday 31st May 08:26
As said I don't think a car will ever match the bikes at TT as the track is so unsuitable to a wide car v a narrow bike. They take completely different lines through the twisties. But taking into account this massive disadvantage I think anything above 120mph for a car is quite something.
Just remember this mega Subaru would likely slay any bike in most other locations. It is all about the track.
Name any other track in the world where a bike holds the record. There won't be many.
Just remember this mega Subaru would likely slay any bike in most other locations. It is all about the track.
Name any other track in the world where a bike holds the record. There won't be many.
Edited by k-ink on Tuesday 31st May 09:39
k-ink said:
As said I don't think a car will ever match the bikes as the track is so unsuitable to a wide car v a narrow bike. They take completely different lines through the twisties. But taking into account this massive disadvantage I think anything above 120mph for a car is quite something.
Just remember this mega Subaru would likely slay any bike in most other locations. It is all about the track.
The standard Suburu which set the 117mph time was only slightly nodded 360-380bhp hardly the pinnacle of car performance. Just remember this mega Subaru would likely slay any bike in most other locations. It is all about the track.
I get that! But the track is so limiting for cars. Bikes can go through some twisty sections flat out (in a straight line down the middle) where a car has to slow down (to steer and avoid hitting the kerbs).
You need MEGA power to make up this disadvantage. Near 700bhp is a help, but I doubt anywhere near enough compared to not having to slow down at all. There are not enough places to max out at higher speed to make up for that.
Anywhere else I'd bet my life on the car.
You need MEGA power to make up this disadvantage. Near 700bhp is a help, but I doubt anywhere near enough compared to not having to slow down at all. There are not enough places to max out at higher speed to make up for that.
Anywhere else I'd bet my life on the car.
Welshbeef said:
The standard Suburu which set the 117mph time was only slightly nodded 360-380bhp hardly the pinnacle of car performance.
Unlike the pinacle of race bike technology. I present the highly sophisticated Kawasaki ER6, designed for commuting and yours for under 7 grand and faster than a 4wd Subaru on slicks.https://www.gumtree.com/p/kawasaki-motorbikes/kawa...
Edited by anonymous-user on Tuesday 31st May 09:58
What top speed do you think this new car will have, over the original attempt, anywhere near the 200mph the bikes are capable of, its at the flat out parts that the car needs to make up time, compared to the parts it can't go as hard as the bikes where they can take a better line, also the bike will accelerate quicker out of the slow bits, again more time the car needs to claw back.it really is up against it.
wormus said:
Unlike the pinacle of race bike technology. I present the highly sophisticated Kawasaki ER6, designed for commuting and yours for under 7 grand and faster than a 4wd Subaru on slicks
That is a misleading comment. You need to add "... at the TT track" to the end of that. There are plenty of other tracks where the Subaru would leave the bike for dead.
Name some proper race tracks where the lap record is held by a bike, other than the TT.
rigga said:
What top speed do you think this new car will have, over the original attempt, anywhere near the 200mph the bikes are capable of, its at the flat out parts that the car needs to make up time, compared to the parts it can't go as hard as the bikes where they can take a better line, also the bike will accelerate quicker out of the slow bits, again more time the car needs to claw back.it really is up against it.
If the Suburu was doing a pretty consistent 165mph on the long straights with 360-380bhp if it has 600+bhp less weight but more aero I think 300kph / 185mph wouldn't be improbable - actually they might gear it longer 195mph? None the less the big difference is in the new machine he will have accelerated to 165mph significantly quicker (and then keep going) more grunt for the hills, higher average speed around the corners/carry more speed and superior brakes so later braking.
I think it will be materially quicker 127mph + and they are sneakily trying for 130mph time but will not achieve it and miss by 2.5%
k-ink said:
That is a misleading comment. You need to add "... at the TT track" to the end of that.
There are plenty of other tracks where the Subaru would leave the bike for dead.
Name some proper race tracks where the lap record is held by a bike, other than the TT.
Sorry, my mistake. I thought this thread was about the TT circuit. There are plenty of other tracks where the Subaru would leave the bike for dead.
Name some proper race tracks where the lap record is held by a bike, other than the TT.
Welshbeef said:
rigga said:
What top speed do you think this new car will have, over the original attempt, anywhere near the 200mph the bikes are capable of, its at the flat out parts that the car needs to make up time, compared to the parts it can't go as hard as the bikes where they can take a better line, also the bike will accelerate quicker out of the slow bits, again more time the car needs to claw back.it really is up against it.
If the Suburu was doing a pretty consistent 165mph on the long straights with 360-380bhp if it has 600+bhp less weight but more aero I think 300kph / 185mph wouldn't be improbable - actually they might gear it longer 195mph? None the less the big difference is in the new machine he will have accelerated to 165mph significantly quicker (and then keep going) more grunt for the hills, higher average speed around the corners/carry more speed and superior brakes so later braking.
I think it will be materially quicker 127mph + and they are sneakily trying for 130mph time but will not achieve it and miss by 2.5%
And if my auntie had balls, she'd be my uncle.
Same thread every year, and the facts are the facts.
Bikes are fastest on the TT circuit and we will know soon enough how close the car will get. Shouldn't underestimate though the effort required to gain a couple of MPH over the 37.75 miles. You need to be faster everywhere and over a 6 lap race first and third place can be a few of seconds or less.
In racing terms, 15 seconds per lap average difference is massive.
Same thread every year, and the facts are the facts.
Bikes are fastest on the TT circuit and we will know soon enough how close the car will get. Shouldn't underestimate though the effort required to gain a couple of MPH over the 37.75 miles. You need to be faster everywhere and over a 6 lap race first and third place can be a few of seconds or less.
In racing terms, 15 seconds per lap average difference is massive.
k-ink said:
.
Name some proper race tracks where the lap record is held by a bike, other than the TT.
Name some proper race tracks where the lap record is held by a modified Subaru.Name some proper race tracks where the lap record is held by a bike, other than the TT.
I'm actually quite interested to hear which circuits you think the Subaru would be quicker than a bike. I've no doubt that there are circuits where it could be quicker than a superbike, but I'm not sure which.
Edited by PorkInsider on Tuesday 31st May 11:55
Having watched the car make its attempts last year, at Braddan Bridge, (slow corner), and from Harold's at Greeba, (fastish bends), compared to any of the bikes and sidecars, the car looked painfully slow at both!
How fast do you think one of the top riders could go if the bike was allowed the same concessions as the car gets?
ie. Only vehicle on the course, optimum tyres for one lap, fuel for one lap, not having to adhere to Superbike regs, money no object development and, of course, the free run up to the start line from Governors.
Is the fuel pressure restricted as per the TT bike regs?
Does the car run regular, petrol station, unleaded?
Can it carry enough to do 2, full on, laps?
Until a car does a full 6 laps, under race conditions, with 2 pit stops, with the only flying lap on lap 6, it proves nothing and serves no purpose other than the publicity stunt it is!
How fast do you think one of the top riders could go if the bike was allowed the same concessions as the car gets?
ie. Only vehicle on the course, optimum tyres for one lap, fuel for one lap, not having to adhere to Superbike regs, money no object development and, of course, the free run up to the start line from Governors.
Is the fuel pressure restricted as per the TT bike regs?
Does the car run regular, petrol station, unleaded?
Can it carry enough to do 2, full on, laps?
Until a car does a full 6 laps, under race conditions, with 2 pit stops, with the only flying lap on lap 6, it proves nothing and serves no purpose other than the publicity stunt it is!
Welshbeef said:
rigga said:
What top speed do you think this new car will have, over the original attempt, anywhere near the 200mph the bikes are capable of, its at the flat out parts that the car needs to make up time, compared to the parts it can't go as hard as the bikes where they can take a better line, also the bike will accelerate quicker out of the slow bits, again more time the car needs to claw back.it really is up against it.
If the Suburu was doing a pretty consistent 165mph on the long straights with 360-380bhp if it has 600+bhp less weight but more aero I think 300kph / 185mph wouldn't be improbable - actually they might gear it longer 195mph? None the less the big difference is in the new machine he will have accelerated to 165mph significantly quicker (and then keep going) more grunt for the hills, higher average speed around the corners/carry more speed and superior brakes so later braking.
I think it will be materially quicker 127mph + and they are sneakily trying for 130mph time but will not achieve it and miss by 2.5%
CypSIdders said:
Having watched the car make its attempts last year, at Braddan Bridge, (slow corner), and from Harold's at Greeba, (fastish bends), compared to any of the bikes and sidecars, the car looked painfully slow at both!
How fast do you think one of the top riders could go if the bike was allowed the same concessions as the car gets?
ie. Only vehicle on the course, optimum tyres for one lap, fuel for one lap, not having to adhere to Superbike regs, money no object development and, of course, the free run up to the start line from Governors.
Is the fuel pressure restricted as per the TT bike regs?
Does the car run regular, petrol station, unleaded?
Can it carry enough to do 2, full on, laps?
Until a car does a full 6 laps, under race conditions, with 2 pit stops, with the only flying lap on lap 6, it proves nothing and serves no purpose other than the publicity stunt it is!
Quite. Designed to sell more Subarus.How fast do you think one of the top riders could go if the bike was allowed the same concessions as the car gets?
ie. Only vehicle on the course, optimum tyres for one lap, fuel for one lap, not having to adhere to Superbike regs, money no object development and, of course, the free run up to the start line from Governors.
Is the fuel pressure restricted as per the TT bike regs?
Does the car run regular, petrol station, unleaded?
Can it carry enough to do 2, full on, laps?
Until a car does a full 6 laps, under race conditions, with 2 pit stops, with the only flying lap on lap 6, it proves nothing and serves no purpose other than the publicity stunt it is!
AntiLagGC8 said:
The Impreza had no where near 380bhp thanks to its cooling issues. I posted an article about it earlier in the thread.
I don't know where that power figure came from in the first place - IIRC Subaru said around 320, but it may have been a bit more if they remapped it for the noisy exhaust.Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff