RE: Subaru Isle of Man TT car - new pictures
Discussion
wst said:
hat's an original road going bike qualify as? Could a manufacturer turn out 50 homologation special road bikes that should cost €100k (if they were aiming at keeping a similar profit margin) but sell them at €39,995, just to make their "standard" parts out of unobtanium?
They would have to do 500 bikes of whatever version they wanted to homologate, to meet the FIM rules.I can't think of any current bikes which are homologation 'specials', though? (ETA: used as a base for top TT bikes.)
Most of the higher spec' road bikes (R1M, etc) seem to be built to be better road bikes more than they do for racing homologation. I could be wrong here (not up on current road bikes, really) but the higher spec' road bikes seem to have top-end parts where they could be legitimately changed under the FIM rules anyway without the homologation issue.
Edited by PorkInsider on Tuesday 31st May 15:26
wormus said:
Welshbeef said:
Someone posted a table earlier of the incremental seconds per lap to get higher average speed. From memory it was 9 seconds over 38miles for each mph average increase. Those are the facts.
What was the 2015 fastest time v 2014 fastest time? How many seconds? These are facts and these are bikes pushing to the max year on year with countless laps and great lap knowledge.
Exactly my point, they are using every inch of the track and have the whole thing memorised with years of experience so the fact progress year on year is slow shows how close to the edge they are. The superbikes are already so powerful they are boardering on unridable so it's not simply a case that adding more power car or bike will lead to a much faster lap time.What was the 2015 fastest time v 2014 fastest time? How many seconds? These are facts and these are bikes pushing to the max year on year with countless laps and great lap knowledge.
These days the TT is a specialist event, don't seem to find riders who excel at the road based events, and the short circuit world championship series, Foggy used to do the TT, won several, and held the lap record for about 7 year's, but those days are not now, saying top riders should attempt it is not going to happen, Rossi and all the moto gp boys would never dream of trying it, too much risk for little gain.
Does anyone have any idea what mpg the car will be getting and can it carry enough fuel to do more than one lap, at full tilt?
The bikes do 2 laps before refuelling, I assume they get better mpg than the car.
Is the car just a one lap special, with no chance of completing a second lap without running out of fuel?
As to the Superbikes being race prepared, look at their times compared to Superstock 1000 at BSB, WSBK, TT, NW200, etc, the difference isn't exactly massive!
The bikes do 2 laps before refuelling, I assume they get better mpg than the car.
Is the car just a one lap special, with no chance of completing a second lap without running out of fuel?
As to the Superbikes being race prepared, look at their times compared to Superstock 1000 at BSB, WSBK, TT, NW200, etc, the difference isn't exactly massive!
rigga said:
These days the TT is a specialist event, don't seem to find riders who excel at the road based events, and the short circuit world championship series, Foggy used to do the TT, won several, and held the lap record for about 7 year's, but those days are not now, saying top riders should attempt it is not going to happen, Rossi and all the moto gp boys would never dream of trying it, too much risk for little gain.
Kudos really after X world championships then the TT is the ultimate bike win. Possibly they have constraints in their contracts.
Welshbeef said:
This is my point MH has a steep learning curve both confidence and experience learning the track + in all fairness is he the ultimate race driver who can extract the maximum time from a vehicle round the track? No idea possibly but I'd wager there are faster (ditto bike riders shame Foggy and the current breed don't man up and race).
Mark Higgins was born and has lived in Isle of Man most of his life.I think you would struggle to find anyone more qualified to have a go at this.
Your comment on Foggy manning up is just to silly.
Welshbeef said:
Possibly they have constraints in their contracts.
I doubt it's clauses in contracts stopping them going to the TT.Rossi and others like to watch the TT but make no bones about saying they would never dare to race there, and MotoGP riders aren't known for lack of balls...
Welshbeef said:
rigga said:
These days the TT is a specialist event, don't seem to find riders who excel at the road based events, and the short circuit world championship series, Foggy used to do the TT, won several, and held the lap record for about 7 year's, but those days are not now, saying top riders should attempt it is not going to happen, Rossi and all the moto gp boys would never dream of trying it, too much risk for little gain.
Kudos really after X world championships then the TT is the ultimate bike win. Possibly they have constraints in their contracts.
His 123mph lap was set in '92 on a 750 which is where I expect this car to be at, on a good day when everything goes swimmingly.
TT used to enjoy special status with the FIM, as in no other world championship races used to be held whilst the isle of man races were in progress, that status was removed several years ago, so now anyone taking part in GP's WSB etc would have issues with races clashing, so no one dose both now.
GravelBen said:
AntiLagGC8 said:
The Impreza had no where near 380bhp thanks to its cooling issues. I posted an article about it earlier in the thread.
I don't know where that power figure came from in the first place - IIRC Subaru said around 320, but it may have been a bit more if they remapped it for the noisy exhaust.Subaru stated as far as I can see that they only removed the limiter and the car and its mapping was otherwise standard, not that it matters too much anyway when the car apparently was well below power due to the heat issues.
AntiLagGC8 said:
It appears to be a number based on rumors.
Subaru stated as far as I can see that they only removed the limiter and the car and its mapping was otherwise standard, not that it matters too much anyway when the car apparently was well below power due to the heat issues.
If that's the case were looking at closer to 100% increase in power. Subaru stated as far as I can see that they only removed the limiter and the car and its mapping was otherwise standard, not that it matters too much anyway when the car apparently was well below power due to the heat issues.
Was it the big pro bikers on here who were staring the modifications nearer 400bhp with the idea being to discredit the time a bit? (I love car v bike bants)
Mastodon2 said:
They should use an old RS6, they'd beat the record then for certain.
I'd say the C7 RS6 would certainly offer up a good time - clearly demolishing the 827i Vitesse probably slower than the 117mph but who knows and as it will never happen I'll say it will do elevnity billion MPH average speed AntiLagGC8 said:
Why would it blow up? I presume you've got no experience with these cars by your statement?
680hp flat out for 20 mins. It's not like running on a dyno, TT circuit is very hard on the bikes to the point where they blow up and I guess cars too. Edited by anonymous-user on Tuesday 31st May 19:45
k-ink said:
As we all know the subaru is FAR from the fastest car on a track. Yet it is all we have here to represent four wheels. We are comparing a pretty decent car against the very fastest bikes in the world, on a track which is uniquely suited to bikes. So the challenge is rather skewed anyway. But it is all we have.
Not the very fastest bikes I was comparing it to a 250cc which is faster a 650cc Parallel Twin & an electric bike which does a similar thing to the car which is a 1 lap run to the flag (although the car does get a running start) although the Electric bikes can't go flat out as they won't make a lap.I also think a fairer comparison would be to the Production TT record which is 125mph rather than the Supersport/Superstock/Superbikes as it's not fair.
I agree the track suits the bikes one of the few that does, the closest actual track in the UK would be Cadwell.
wormus said:
AntiLagGC8 said:
Why would it blow up? I presume you've got no experience with these cars by your statement?
680hp flat out for 20 mins. It's not like running on a dyno, TT circuit is very hard on the bikes and I guess cars too. I remember the LeMans of 2011 I think Audi v Pug hard at it all he way to the point it was barely off quali times for he entire race.
I know bike engines are not built for high mileage but surely the assumption that a cars unit is somehow as weak is odd?
Oh Ford tested the 2.5 I5 focus ST engine at maximum rpm for 200k miles on the test bed only stopping it for what would be its service intervals based on miles. Modern cars and race cars can be treated exceptionally badly run on shockingly bad oil with very little oil in them and tested to never have engine oil changed as some owners never change oil or bother to service their cars.
k-ink said:
I was under the impression the top class of race bikes use engines which only last for the brief time they are out there. This video seems to indicate every single component was changed aside from the ECU...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDpwebkcsQA
To give you an example our engines will have done the NW200 & then have to last all practice week after which they will new engines for race week & then be used in other Road Races Skerries & Armoy before we'll use the TT race week engines for the Ulster GP.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDpwebkcsQA
The race engines will cover 608 very hard miles.
Welshbeef said:
Surprising how endurance racing works!!
I remember the LeMans of 2011 I think Audi v Pug hard at it all he way to the point it was barely off quali times for he entire race.
I know bike engines are not built for high mileage but surely the assumption that a cars unit is somehow as weak is odd?
Oh Ford tested the 2.5 I5 focus ST engine at maximum rpm for 200k miles on the test bed only stopping it for what would be its service intervals based on miles. Modern cars and race cars can be treated exceptionally badly run on shockingly bad oil with very little oil in them and tested to never have engine oil changed as some owners never change oil or bother to service their cars.
I have no idea how to answer this. How many Focus ST engines are running 680hp ?I remember the LeMans of 2011 I think Audi v Pug hard at it all he way to the point it was barely off quali times for he entire race.
I know bike engines are not built for high mileage but surely the assumption that a cars unit is somehow as weak is odd?
Oh Ford tested the 2.5 I5 focus ST engine at maximum rpm for 200k miles on the test bed only stopping it for what would be its service intervals based on miles. Modern cars and race cars can be treated exceptionally badly run on shockingly bad oil with very little oil in them and tested to never have engine oil changed as some owners never change oil or bother to service their cars.
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