RE: Subaru Isle of Man TT car - new pictures

[Bonefish Blues]

Rudimentary maths says 7 miles further in an hour equals 2 and a bit in roughly a third of the time. That's a lot faster.

[Welshbeef]

117mph average speed is 19mins29 seconds
120 mph average speed is 19mins
127mph average speed is 18mins6 seconds.

[Bonefish Blues]

Is another way of putting it.

[rigga]

Welshbeef said:

No the fact is the Suburu should have done a 120mph but mechanical failure harmed the remaining 8 miles of the track.

So assuming it should have done 120mph. What's the time difference between a 120 & 127mph lap? Then over 38miles could said faster car make up that time?

Lot's of assumptions in all your theory's, what amount of speed did he lose due to brake fade? How bad was the brake fade, previously you stated he relied on engine braking, if that was the case, around the tt course I suggest he would have curtailed the attempt post haste, so brake fade yes, huge fade? I don't think so, and in that case its supremely difficult to assess how fast he could have gone.Again how quick is the new car? Again no one knows, just wait and see.

[Welshbeef]

rigga said:

Lot's of assumptions in all your theory's, what amount of speed did he lose due to brake fade? How bad was the brake fade, previously you stated he relied on engine braking, if that was the case, around the tt course I suggest he would have curtailed the attempt post haste, so brake fade yes, huge fade? I don't think so, and in that case its supremely difficult to assess how fast he could have gone.Again how quick is the new car? Again no one knows, just wait and see.

Pre brake fade he was on for a 120mph lap.

Evo article is linked earlier.

[Welshbeef]

rigga said:

Lot's of assumptions in all your theory's, what amount of speed did he lose due to brake fade? How bad was the brake fade, previously you stated he relied on engine braking, if that was the case, around the tt course I suggest he would have curtailed the attempt post haste, so brake fade yes, huge fade? I don't think so, and in that case its supremely difficult to assess how fast he could have gone.Again how quick is the new car? Again no one knows, just wait and see.

All else being equal it has between 50-100% more power and a much higher speed plus much more aero.

Are you saying it will not be quicker?

[ZX10R NIN]

GravelBen said:

It gets more powerful every time you post about it!

I know I said 340bhp & have been told I was wrong it had more still can't get a straight answer out of the Prodrive boys now, they're being very cagey about this ones bhp, it'll be good to see what time it gets.

[ZX10R NIN]

Welshbeef said:

So far 3 attempts
Tony Pond 827i 100moh average
1st Suburu run 113mph (learning he circuit)
2nd Suburu run 117mph with 20% of the course with ruined brakes.


I'd love to know how much faster it would have been with brakes which lasted the entire lap? Would that alone have done a 120mph+ lap.

With a rolling start so it was doing 130mph across the startline & was still slower than the Electric bikes that have a standing start & have to back off around the lap so as not to run out of juice.

A good marker are the 250cc that have a flying lap record of 118mph.

I'll go on record now & say if it hits 123mph lap I'll donate £50.00 to help for heros.

[rigga]

Welshbeef said:

rigga said:

Lot's of assumptions in all your theory's, what amount of speed did he lose due to brake fade? How bad was the brake fade, previously you stated he relied on engine braking, if that was the case, around the tt course I suggest he would have curtailed the attempt post haste, so brake fade yes, huge fade? I don't think so, and in that case its supremely difficult to assess how fast he could have gone.Again how quick is the new car? Again no one knows, just wait and see.

All else being equal it has between 50-100% more power and a much higher speed plus much more aero.

Are you saying it will not be quicker?

Already layed my bet at 123 MPH,.

[anonymous-user]

Welshbeef said:

All else being equal it has between 50-100% more power and a much higher speed plus much more aero.

Are you saying it will not be quicker?

It's only as fast as the bloke driving it and ultimately talent and physics will determine how fast it goes. You cannot just double the power and automatically go twice as fast. I remember back in 2000 David Jeffries broke the record with a 125mph lap on a V&M R1. Last year the record went again with 132mph (I think) so that's 7mph in 15 years with all the advancements with tyre technology, power and suspension. Bikes and riders come back year after year, forever improving and practicing. This by comparison is a PR stunt by Subaru and whilst he may go a bit faster, I don't think the extra power will make as big a difference as most people think.

Tony Pond did 100mph with a standard Rover 827 with 180 ish HP.

Edited by anonymous-user on Monday 30th May 15:57

[Welshbeef]

wormus said:

It's only as fast as the bloke driving it and ultimately talent and physics will determine how fast it goes. You cannot just double the power and automatically go twice as fast. I remember back in 2000 David Jeffries broke the record with a 125mph lap on a V&M R1. Last year the record went again with 132mph (I think) so that's 7mph in 15 years with all the advancements with tyre technology, power and suspension. Bikes and riders come back year after year, forever improving and practicing. This by comparison is a PR stunt by Subaru and whilst he may go a bit faster, I don't think the extra power will make as big a difference as most people think.

Tony Pond did 100mph with a standard Rover 827 with 160 ish HP.

But hats 7mph over 15years with each time the machines at the pinnacle. That Suburu while good is far far from the pinnacle of car performance.

[ZX10R NIN]

Welshbeef said:

rigga said:

Its not just barely faster though is it, your estimate of a 127mph lap is a huge leap.

No the fact is the Suburu should have done a 120mph but mechanical failure harmed the remaining 8 miles of the track.

So assuming it should have done 120mph. What's the time difference between a 120 & 127mph lap? Then over 38 miles could said faster car make up that time?

In THEORY he was on for a 120mph lap, TT riders will tell you at points on their laps some of them have been on for a 134+mph lap but that for whatever reason be it tyres going off suspension overheating heat soak etc, the TT course won't give it's mph to you that's not how it works.

On Saturday one of our riders should have broken 130mph if he'd strung all of his good splits in practice together so far he's at 127mph & it's not for lack of commitment.

The 130mph barrier was broken in 2007, 10 years later we're at 132mph.

Hutchy had a blown exhaust which is a killer for an N/A engine & still managed a 132mph lap but you really don't realise how hard it is to gain that extra 1mph per lap if your bikes to stiff any speed advantage you had is lost through the bumpy sections of the track, you go to the NW200 with a stiff bike like the R1M & you can be up there, you get to the TT & your shedding time like it's going out of fashion.

Even with the big brakes he had last time he ran out towards the end which shows how much more he was using the brakes than the bikes were.

However it turns out it'll be a good watch after all the fun & games are over.

Edited by ZX10R NIN on Monday 30th May 16:13

[PorkInsider]

I've knocked a little table up showing average speeds and lap times, plus the improvement needed (in time) to get to each average mph increment.

(I was bored, ok...)

Hopefully I've got this right; I've used 37.73 miles as the lap distance as I believe that's what the TT timekeepers use.

[Tango13]

Bruce Anstey managed 132.298mph on the sixth and final lap of the 2014 Superbike race and Michael Dunlop holds the race record of 1h 29m 29.98s or 128.747mph over six laps including stopping for fuel and tyres.

Maybe the car should do six consecutive fast laps including stopping for fuel, tyres, new brakes, new suspension, new transmission, new engine etc and we can see how fast it really is?

[Welshbeef]

PorkInsider said:

I've knocked a little table up showing average speeds and lap times, plus the improvement needed (in time) to get to each average mph increment.

(I was bored, ok...)

Hopefully I've got this right; I've used 37.73 miles as the lap distance as I believe that's what the TT timekeepers use.

Ok so let's say his actual attempt without his brakes fading and needing to use engine braking for 8 miles meant he did what he was on for at the 80% mark a 120mph+ time.

Big assumption sure but let's use that as the line in he sand purely for arguements sake.
Now if 120mph was the level then a car with 50-100% more power with less weight and massively more step much better suspension setup and one years tyre improvements - would people think over 38miles MH might be able to find 9 seconds? Personally I think they are thinking if everything goes perfectly they have the tool to deliver a 130mph time but may come away with "only" doing a 125mph.

[k-ink]

I suspect this new mega subaru will post a faster time than last year, assuming there is no mechanical failure or driver issues. But I don't think it will come close to worrying the top bikes at all, purely due to its width. I would guesstimate 125mph absolute max average if he really strings it together perfectly. Although in reality and being more realistic / pessimistic, I wouldn't be surprised if it was lower than this, at say 122mph ish.

I hope all goes well and everyone finishes safely, in cars and on bikes. Best of luck all, you crazy heroes!

[ZX10R NIN]

So you're saying 125mph or 127mph

[k-ink]

122 minimum, to 125 maximum

[PorkInsider]

Welshbeef said:

PorkInsider said:

I've knocked a little table up showing average speeds and lap times, plus the improvement needed (in time) to get to each average mph increment.

(I was bored, ok...)

Hopefully I've got this right; I've used 37.73 miles as the lap distance as I believe that's what the TT timekeepers use.

Ok so let's say his actual attempt without his brakes fading and needing to use engine braking for 8 miles meant he did what he was on for at the 80% mark a 120mph+ time.

Big assumption sure but let's use that as the line in he sand purely for arguements sake.
Now if 120mph was the level then a car with 50-100% more power with less weight and massively more step much better suspension setup and one years tyre improvements - would people think over 38miles MH might be able to find 9 seconds? Personally I think they are thinking if everything goes perfectly they have the tool to deliver a 130mph time but may come away with "only" doing a 125mph.

I may be misunderstanding what you're saying there, but 9 seconds will only gain him roughly 1mph on his average speed.

[Welshbeef]

k-ink said:

122 minimum, to 125 maximum

So assuming my line in the sand of 120mph of current car you believe this new offering will be 18 - 45 seconds quicker over the lap?