In the news - Jaguar Land Rover Manager - Road Rage Crash
Discussion
nffcforever said:
No, no, no! His actions were not ENTIRELY and WHOLLY intentional!!
He did not intend to hit the car. That would be seriously crazy.
I hope you never ever get called up for jury service.
He drove so negligently that the consequences were foreseeable. He ought to be inside for at least 10years. He did not intend to hit the car. That would be seriously crazy.
I hope you never ever get called up for jury service.
nffcforever said:
MrBarry123 said:
My reference to it being an accident isn't his actions, obviously he meant to drive the car as he did. It is the result of his actions which were not intended - hence my manslaughter/murder comparison.
I fear if those two girls had died, some on here would be appealling for him to be charged with murder.
It's a bit unfortunate that it needs clarifying but I'm very much not "on the side" of the Discovery driver.
Precisely.I fear if those two girls had died, some on here would be appealling for him to be charged with murder.
It's a bit unfortunate that it needs clarifying but I'm very much not "on the side" of the Discovery driver.
This is the terrifying things about jury's (I've been on two).
In United States law, depraved-heart murder, also known as depraved-indifference murder, is an action where a defendant acts with a "depraved indifference" to human life and where such act results in a death. In a depraved-heart murder, defendants commit an act even though they know their act runs an unusually high risk of causing death or serious bodily harm to someone else. If the risk of death or bodily harm is great enough, ignoring it demonstrates a "depraved indifference" to human life and the resulting death is considered to have been committed with malice aforethought.[1][2] In some states, depraved-heart killings constitute second-degree murder,[3] while in others, the act would be charged with varying degrees of manslaughter.
SWoll said:
If this was the USA and that had been the outcome he'd possibly have been charged with for what they call "Depraved Heart Murder", and I'm not sure I'd disagree TBH.
In United States law, depraved-heart murder, also known as depraved-indifference murder, is an action where a defendant acts with a "depraved indifference" to human life and where such act results in a death. In a depraved-heart murder, defendants commit an act even though they know their act runs an unusually high risk of causing death or serious bodily harm to someone else. If the risk of death or bodily harm is great enough, ignoring it demonstrates a "depraved indifference" to human life and the resulting death is considered to have been committed with malice aforethought.[1][2] In some states, depraved-heart killings constitute second-degree murder,[3] while in others, the act would be charged with varying degrees of manslaughter.
Except no death resulted in this case.In United States law, depraved-heart murder, also known as depraved-indifference murder, is an action where a defendant acts with a "depraved indifference" to human life and where such act results in a death. In a depraved-heart murder, defendants commit an act even though they know their act runs an unusually high risk of causing death or serious bodily harm to someone else. If the risk of death or bodily harm is great enough, ignoring it demonstrates a "depraved indifference" to human life and the resulting death is considered to have been committed with malice aforethought.[1][2] In some states, depraved-heart killings constitute second-degree murder,[3] while in others, the act would be charged with varying degrees of manslaughter.
F1GTRUeno said:
A.J.M said:
This is a good reason why road rage is not worth it. Keeping calm and being the better person wouldn't have seen that poor family suffer in such a horrible and cruel way.
The way you've phrased it makes it seem like you think the guy chose to get so angry. He clearly has anger issues however he's also acting like a normal human being.The guy is clearly a complete and utter thunder
and deserves to rot in jail but road rage is a natural thing. It's in our primal instincts to get mad when we're held up from whatever we need to do, inconveniences are treated with signals from the brain telling us to get pent up and frustrated.Saying 'keep calm and be the better person' is all well and good but everyone gets the red mist at some point, over absolutely anything.
Doesn't make what happened any less tragic but it's obviously not as simple as you've made out.
Everyone has moments of being angry, myself included. We can beep horns, give fingers etc. That may be "natural" or such.
However, at no point have i thought it would be a good idea to deliberately chase someone down, drive like a complete knob etc.
There is a line between getting angry and going way too far with it. He is an adult, he should have acted like one.
Have you ever felt the need to chase someone down to get revenge on them?
Why did he chase that Mazda down the road and perform that stupid turn?
What was he going to do to the driver of the Mazda if/when he caught them/stopped them or traffic blocked her path?
What was the end plan for this? A telling off or assault etc.
I have and will state again the man is an arse, he deserves punished.
His job is to teach and instruct people who have bought land rover's how to drive them off road in a safe and controlled manner, that will involve being patient and calm with people.
deadslow said:
He drove so negligently that the consequences were foreseeable. He ought to be inside for at least 10years.
I don't disagree with that. The act of hitting the car was an accident though, in layman terms. There is very possibly some other legal interpretation of when an accident becomes something else. bhstewie said:
hstewie said: I don't really get why all the news stories seem to centre on him working for Jaguar Land Rover rather than simply "dhead sees red mist"? 
Because he instructed driving (albeit off-road) for a living and that makes his actions even more incredible. Most similar news stories I've seen also report the occupation of the offender.head sees red mist"? nffcforever said:
deadslow said:
He drove so negligently that the consequences were foreseeable. He ought to be inside for at least 10years.
I don't disagree with that. The act of hitting the car was an accident though, in layman terms. There is very possibly some other legal interpretation of when an accident becomes something else. ThunderGuts said:
I wonder which plays on his mind more.
Crippling the two girls.
Or
A bit of hardship for his family and that his career and way of providing is up the swanny.
Obviously no way of knowing, but if there was I'd honestly wager no.2.Crippling the two girls.
Or
A bit of hardship for his family and that his career and way of providing is up the swanny.
Edited by ThunderGuts on Friday 27th May 18:18
nffcforever said:
SWoll said:
If this was the USA and that had been the outcome he'd possibly have been charged with for what they call "Depraved Heart Murder", and I'm not sure I'd disagree TBH.
In United States law, depraved-heart murder, also known as depraved-indifference murder, is an action where a defendant acts with a "depraved indifference" to human life and where such act results in a death. In a depraved-heart murder, defendants commit an act even though they know their act runs an unusually high risk of causing death or serious bodily harm to someone else. If the risk of death or bodily harm is great enough, ignoring it demonstrates a "depraved indifference" to human life and the resulting death is considered to have been committed with malice aforethought.[1][2] In some states, depraved-heart killings constitute second-degree murder,[3] while in others, the act would be charged with varying degrees of manslaughter.
Except no death resulted in this case.In United States law, depraved-heart murder, also known as depraved-indifference murder, is an action where a defendant acts with a "depraved indifference" to human life and where such act results in a death. In a depraved-heart murder, defendants commit an act even though they know their act runs an unusually high risk of causing death or serious bodily harm to someone else. If the risk of death or bodily harm is great enough, ignoring it demonstrates a "depraved indifference" to human life and the resulting death is considered to have been committed with malice aforethought.[1][2] In some states, depraved-heart killings constitute second-degree murder,[3] while in others, the act would be charged with varying degrees of manslaughter.
nffcforever said:
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: I don't really get why all the news stories seem to centre on him working for Jaguar Land Rover rather than simply "dhead sees red mist"?
Because he instructed driving (albeit off-road) for a living and that makes his actions even more incredible. Most similar news stories I've seen also report the occupation of the offender.head sees red mist"? It's pretty much standard to dig out unrelated details both to smear the offender and 'spice up' the news story (clickbait existed before clicks existed)
The Police/prosecution use this to build a negative image of the accused - the media just use it to get attention to the story.
"Millionaire killed by jealous girlfriend" - what his wealth has to do with the story I've no idea but there's a solid example from today's news.
The Police/prosecution use this to build a negative image of the accused - the media just use it to get attention to the story.
"Millionaire killed by jealous girlfriend" - what his wealth has to do with the story I've no idea but there's a solid example from today's news.
guru_1071 said:
Shy Torque said:
In addition, JLR's insurers are not admitting liability and quibbling about the cost of the children's treatment, although they have made an interim payment.
JLR should be ashamed about thisEdited by Shy Torque on Friday 27th May 12:09
Putting my opinions of many people that use SUV's aside for a minute.
As it is, two little ones and their family have had their lives changed for the worse forever. Also the driver responsible has had a life changing incident. Aside from some breakthrough in medical science, nothing much is going to change for the 2 girls.
So what do we do to the driver? He certainly needs to do his time, so he can have a think about what he has done and what he has done cannot be reversed and the girls situation won't really improve.
I've not read the whole thread or seen much more in the news than the crash, but does he have kids, he will obviously have a family, who will also be feeling this and will have to go through the trauma of living with what a family member has done.
Do "we" want to see his life ruined too, possibly costing the state many thousands of pounds when he can't find a job and ends up on benefits, or do "we" want him to be rehabilitated and become a useful member of society? When he has finished his sentence, how does he make amends?
As it is, two little ones and their family have had their lives changed for the worse forever. Also the driver responsible has had a life changing incident. Aside from some breakthrough in medical science, nothing much is going to change for the 2 girls.
So what do we do to the driver? He certainly needs to do his time, so he can have a think about what he has done and what he has done cannot be reversed and the girls situation won't really improve.
I've not read the whole thread or seen much more in the news than the crash, but does he have kids, he will obviously have a family, who will also be feeling this and will have to go through the trauma of living with what a family member has done.
Do "we" want to see his life ruined too, possibly costing the state many thousands of pounds when he can't find a job and ends up on benefits, or do "we" want him to be rehabilitated and become a useful member of society? When he has finished his sentence, how does he make amends?
Willy Nilly said:
Do "we" want to see his life ruined too, possibly costing the state many thousands of pounds when he can't find a job and ends up on benefits, or do "we" want him to be rehabilitated and become a useful member of society? When he has finished his sentence, how does he make amends?
We could bring back labour camps, people like him instead of sitting on their asses in nice secure lockups could do something useful like build roads or do other things that could serve society as a whole which would offset the costs incurred by the state. But I guess his/their human rights would suffer innit, we can't have this happen.Just thought I'd Google Pistonheads road presence as it just popped into my head that "road presence" is a term car reviewers and drivers sometimes use to describe particular types of car.
To be honest, a lot of the noises made in the thread that Google threw back kind of reflect quite nicely what I'm getting at.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=984...
Is it possible that some drivers of cars with "road presence" get accustomed to people complying and moving out of their way, such that when they encounter someone in a car with less road presence, and the superior road presence of their vehicle doesn't have the desired effect, then *some of them* *might* *sometimes* get a bit miffed?
To be honest, a lot of the noises made in the thread that Google threw back kind of reflect quite nicely what I'm getting at.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=984...
Is it possible that some drivers of cars with "road presence" get accustomed to people complying and moving out of their way, such that when they encounter someone in a car with less road presence, and the superior road presence of their vehicle doesn't have the desired effect, then *some of them* *might* *sometimes* get a bit miffed?
Edited by nffcforever on Friday 27th May 19:00
Edited by nffcforever on Friday 27th May 19:01
Willy Nilly said:
Would the parents of the girls have a case to sue the man in the Discovery? I'm thinking the cleaners and taking him there.
Yep and it's going to be one massive claim. None of the occupants of the vehicle hit by the Disco were negligent so they all have claims against the driver of the Disco and his insurers. The girl's claims are going to be the biggest. Not only will they have a claim for pain, suffering and loss of amenity but their claim for special damages is going to have to cover future care and future loss of earnings probably until their retirement age due to their future disadvantage on the labour market.
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