In the news - Jaguar Land Rover Manager - Road Rage Crash
Discussion
Very sad story. This does seem to be a case where the Discovery driver deserves a significant penalty; this wasn't a momentary lapse of concentration or error of judgement but a conscious decision to drive irresponsibly.
It does bring home the value of transporting ones offspring in a big, chunky car.
It does bring home the value of transporting ones offspring in a big, chunky car.
Artey said:
DonkeyApple said:
Wow. Impressive. You sound exactly like the sort of chap who would chase down a woman in an MPV. Nutjob.
Lol, what a classy and on point response. You sound exactly like an idiot who would apologise to a crim braking into your house and raping your wife for her not having gotten a Brazilian. The guy must have had a tough upbringing hence he's a crim, so why not make him a big cuppa while he's at it. That will change his ways for sure.
And the reality is that you do come across on PH as exactly the sort of chap who'd chase someone down out of control. Nutjob.
Edited by DonkeyApple on Saturday 28th May 12:17
daemon said:
zarjaz1991 said:
nffcforever said:
Yeah, some seriously strange comments on here. I'm sure him committing suicide would be a great outcome for his mother, father, wife etc. More pain is definitely the answer.
Slightly different angle, but there's certainly some validity to suggesting he might be better off comitting suicide from his own perspective. His life from now on is going to be pretty awful. Not just his prison term, but afterwards too. He will have to live with what he's done, he'll be universally despised, he'll probably never get another job, etc etc.I know if I'd done that - I'd want to go.
Hes fairly stuffed for a job because he'll have to declare he was in prison, which opens up the why? and then would an employer want the risk of someone like that working for them and the news getting out that he does. Unless he lies of course, which then opens up more problems.
And then as you say, he'll have to live with what hes done - which will be the hardest bit.
Very hard to see how anyone could get the self determination to live through that for the rest of his life.
Actually, I have a bit of a problem with the whole "he shouldn't get another job" sentiment. In no way diminishing the terrible thing that he has done, we should aim to rehabilitate offenders. Agree with the sentence or not, when he has served that sentence, he has paid his debt to society and should be able to work again and contribute usefully to society
MrBarry123 said:
You're missing the point.
Yes, he should be suitably* punished for his actions but for the good of society, he should then be able to rebuild his life - if only to ensure his family (who are innocent in all this) are allowed a chance at a normal life. No-one is saying he should be forgiven.
Ultimately society has to be realistic in its expectations. If it wants to condemn criminals and their families to a life of no work and destitution then fine, but we all better man the f
k up and realise it's going to cost us ALL a lot of money, whilst growing society's underclass. The alternative is that those who have done wrong are punished, serve their time and then are helped to rebuild their lives (easing the strain on taxpayer as a result).
You have to remove emotion from the decision and, unfortunately, treat it as a practical choice.
A family doesn't stop being a unit that can support itself just because one of its members goes into jail for years. Even if we assume that it does having that member work while inside and recoup the cost of the upkeep and the cost of benefits to the family is surely the better option than having no punishment just because "if we penailse the family will suffer". Hell no, in most cases the crims wouldn't work anyway and their families would be on benefits so not only do we not punish but also lose money and promote further criminal activities by not having any sort of real deterrent. And this is what the criminal system should be a huge hammer that hangs over everyone's heads reminding them that if they fYes, he should be suitably* punished for his actions but for the good of society, he should then be able to rebuild his life - if only to ensure his family (who are innocent in all this) are allowed a chance at a normal life. No-one is saying he should be forgiven.
Ultimately society has to be realistic in its expectations. If it wants to condemn criminals and their families to a life of no work and destitution then fine, but we all better man the f
k up and realise it's going to cost us ALL a lot of money, whilst growing society's underclass. The alternative is that those who have done wrong are punished, serve their time and then are helped to rebuild their lives (easing the strain on taxpayer as a result).You have to remove emotion from the decision and, unfortunately, treat it as a practical choice.
- the definition of this is for a qualified judge to decide.
k up they'll pay the price. And if you are an honest member of society that hammer will not affect you. That's how you keep a healthy body - by preventing diseases not by treating them after the fact by some leftwing withcraft that doesn't work.DonkeyApple said:
You're not getting it. Your rage is quite depressing. And the reality is that you do come across on PH as exactly the sort of chap who'd chase someone down out of control. Nutjob.
Lel, that's ok Mr Ph. D. "in all sciences especially human psychology" DonkeyApple. I hope this advice was free of charge.DonkeyApple said:
You're not getting it. Your rage is quite depressing. You're ranting at people over things they never said and trying to call anyone who doesn't want medieval retribution a lefty.
And the reality is that you do come across on PH as exactly the sort of chap who'd chase someone down out of control. Nutjob.
Saved for future scientific purposes. And the reality is that you do come across on PH as exactly the sort of chap who'd chase someone down out of control. Nutjob.
Edited by DonkeyApple on Saturday 28th May 12:17
PS I can tell you're the one with red mist. That edit is more than enough of evidence. LEL
ClaphamGT3 said:
daemon said:
zarjaz1991 said:
nffcforever said:
Yeah, some seriously strange comments on here. I'm sure him committing suicide would be a great outcome for his mother, father, wife etc. More pain is definitely the answer.
Slightly different angle, but there's certainly some validity to suggesting he might be better off comitting suicide from his own perspective. His life from now on is going to be pretty awful. Not just his prison term, but afterwards too. He will have to live with what he's done, he'll be universally despised, he'll probably never get another job, etc etc.I know if I'd done that - I'd want to go.
Hes fairly stuffed for a job because he'll have to declare he was in prison, which opens up the why? and then would an employer want the risk of someone like that working for them and the news getting out that he does. Unless he lies of course, which then opens up more problems.
And then as you say, he'll have to live with what hes done - which will be the hardest bit.
Very hard to see how anyone could get the self determination to live through that for the rest of his life.
Actually, I have a bit of a problem with the whole "he shouldn't get another job" sentiment. In no way diminishing the terrible thing that he has done, we should aim to rehabilitate offenders. Agree with the sentence or not, when he has served that sentence, he has paid his debt to society and should be able to work again and contribute usefully to society
Whilst there is no risk to having this bloke do a desk job or whatever down the line, i dont think too many companies would be bothered with the risk of unsettling current staff or having it in the local rag that they have taken him on.
The current system is very good at poking offenders with sticks for a very long time, thus increasing the risk of re-offending.
Artey said:
DonkeyApple said:
You're not getting it. Your rage is quite depressing. And the reality is that you do come across on PH as exactly the sort of chap who'd chase someone down out of control. Nutjob.
Lel, that's ok Mr Ph. D. "in all sciences especially human psychology" DonkeyApple. I hope this advice was free of charge.DonkeyApple said:
You're not getting it. Your rage is quite depressing. You're ranting at people over things they never said and trying to call anyone who doesn't want medieval retribution a lefty.
And the reality is that you do come across on PH as exactly the sort of chap who'd chase someone down out of control. Nutjob.
Saved for future scientific purposes. And the reality is that you do come across on PH as exactly the sort of chap who'd chase someone down out of control. Nutjob.
Edited by DonkeyApple on Saturday 28th May 12:17
PS I can tell you're the one with red mist. That edit is more than enough of evidence. LEL
This thread is about a serious incident involving road rage. If you want to fight, can you take it elsewhere?
ClaphamGT3 said:
Or move to UAE/SE Asia/South America where no one will give a toss....
Actually, I have a bit of a problem with the whole "he shouldn't get another job" sentiment. In no way diminishing the terrible thing that he has done, we should aim to rehabilitate offenders. Agree with the sentence or not, when he has served that sentence, he has paid his debt to society and should be able to work again and contribute usefully to society
Yup. He has a family that he needs to pay for and a pension to earn. Don't see any upside in punishing the taxpayer by forcing them to finance his responsibilities. Actually, I have a bit of a problem with the whole "he shouldn't get another job" sentiment. In no way diminishing the terrible thing that he has done, we should aim to rehabilitate offenders. Agree with the sentence or not, when he has served that sentence, he has paid his debt to society and should be able to work again and contribute usefully to society
Artey said:
DonkeyApple said:
You're not getting it. Your rage is quite depressing. And the reality is that you do come across on PH as exactly the sort of chap who'd chase someone down out of control. Nutjob.
Lel, that's ok Mr Ph. D. "in all sciences especially human psychology" DonkeyApple. I hope this advice was free of charge.DonkeyApple said:
You're not getting it. Your rage is quite depressing. You're ranting at people over things they never said and trying to call anyone who doesn't want medieval retribution a lefty.
And the reality is that you do come across on PH as exactly the sort of chap who'd chase someone down out of control. Nutjob.
Saved for future scientific purposes. And the reality is that you do come across on PH as exactly the sort of chap who'd chase someone down out of control. Nutjob.
Edited by DonkeyApple on Saturday 28th May 12:17
PS I can tell you're the one with red mist. That edit is more than enough of evidence. LEL
funkyrobot said:
Do you two want to give it a rest now?
This thread is about a serious incident involving road rage. If you want to fight, can you take it elsewhere?
Can you spell "patronising". How about you rewind a couple of pages back and see how this whole discussion started. I'm not fighting with anyone. Just stating facts which to the brainwashed lot seem like a blasphemy. This thread is about a serious incident involving road rage. If you want to fight, can you take it elsewhere?
skyrover said:
nffcforever said:
Fairly typical (although obviously an extreme example) of the kind of behaviour drivers of cars like this often seem to think is ok. Tailgating their way around the country with their little fairy lights twinkling away assuming for some reason that everyone is meant to get out of their way, the roads belong to them, and rules, laws and general manners aren't important, so long as they can arrive as soon as physically possible. Utter brainless, selfish, arrogant tools the lot of them.
Sorry OP, but your way out of line 
On topic... my condolences to those poor little girls
One of the points of punishment is to act as a 'lesson' to other would-be and could-be offenders.
Given that this man surely set out with no criminal intentions and this was purely an unintended consequence of his road rage, this story and its outcome are relevant to many drivers on the road. Without being involved in such an incident, we can understand but can't feel the anguish & guilt he will live with, so a far more effective way to teach the rest of society to keep a cool head and not risk others' lives on the road, is to show very clear consequence of what can happen.
If a stricter sentence can help persuade others in society to be more careful, dissuade road rage and perhaps help prevent another such incident, surely that is worth the extra pain it causes in this case?
Given that this man surely set out with no criminal intentions and this was purely an unintended consequence of his road rage, this story and its outcome are relevant to many drivers on the road. Without being involved in such an incident, we can understand but can't feel the anguish & guilt he will live with, so a far more effective way to teach the rest of society to keep a cool head and not risk others' lives on the road, is to show very clear consequence of what can happen.
If a stricter sentence can help persuade others in society to be more careful, dissuade road rage and perhaps help prevent another such incident, surely that is worth the extra pain it causes in this case?
sealtt said:
One of the points of punishment is to act as a 'lesson' to other would-be and could-be offenders.
Given that this man surely set out with no criminal intentions and this was purely an unintended consequence of his road rage, this story and its outcome are relevant to many drivers on the road. Without being involved in such an incident, we can understand but can't feel the anguish & guilt he will live with, so a far more effective way to teach the rest of society to keep a cool head and not risk others' lives on the road, is to show very clear consequence of what can happen.
If a stricter sentence can help persuade others in society to be more careful, dissuade road rage and perhaps help prevent another such incident, surely that is worth the extra pain it causes in this case?
I do question whether the anguish he is feeling is more about his personal outcome as a result of this tragedy rather than the girls but agree 100% that selfish fear of these consequences may be the only way to make certain people think twice about acting in this way. It's sad, but unfortunately that's the world we live in.Given that this man surely set out with no criminal intentions and this was purely an unintended consequence of his road rage, this story and its outcome are relevant to many drivers on the road. Without being involved in such an incident, we can understand but can't feel the anguish & guilt he will live with, so a far more effective way to teach the rest of society to keep a cool head and not risk others' lives on the road, is to show very clear consequence of what can happen.
If a stricter sentence can help persuade others in society to be more careful, dissuade road rage and perhaps help prevent another such incident, surely that is worth the extra pain it causes in this case?
sealtt said:
If a stricter sentence can help persuade others in society to be more careful, dissuade road rage and perhaps help prevent another such incident, surely that is worth the extra pain it causes in this case?
No. Nope. His butler will suffer and we can't have that happen. The sentence should be, no time in prison, like for like replacement for his Disco (presumably the old one has been written off) and two months holidays in Monaco for him, his family and his closest friends. This will a) make him change his ways
b) cost the taxpayer less than having him serve years in jail.
Artey said:
sealtt said:
If a stricter sentence can help persuade others in society to be more careful, dissuade road rage and perhaps help prevent another such incident, surely that is worth the extra pain it causes in this case?
No. Nope. His butler will suffer and we can't have that happen. The sentence should be, no time in prison, like for like replacement for his Disco (presumably the old one has been written off) and two months holidays in Monaco for him, his family and his closest friends. This will a) make him change his ways
b) cost the taxpayer less than having him serve years in jail.
SWoll said:
I do question whether the anguish he is feeling is more about his personal outcome as a result of this tragedy rather than the girls but agree 100% that selfish fear of these consequences may be the only way to make certain people think twice about acting in this way. It's sad, but unfortunately that's the world we live in.
But does it? Will putting this guy in jail really stop any road rage incidents or bad driving on our roads?Society demands punishment for things like this, yes, and its right that he got what he did as punishment, however are we really saying that 4.5 years in jail is what is required for this guy to see the error of his ways, OR that it will prevent road rage incidents?
Artey said:
MrBarry123 said:
You're missing the point.
Yes, he should be suitably* punished for his actions but for the good of society, he should then be able to rebuild his life - if only to ensure his family (who are innocent in all this) are allowed a chance at a normal life. No-one is saying he should be forgiven.
Ultimately society has to be realistic in its expectations. If it wants to condemn criminals and their families to a life of no work and destitution then fine, but we all better man the fk up and realise it's going to cost us ALL a lot of money, whilst growing society's underclass. The alternative is that those who have done wrong are punished, serve their time and then are helped to rebuild their lives (easing the strain on taxpayer as a result).
You have to remove emotion from the decision and, unfortunately, treat it as a practical choice.
A family doesn't stop being a unit that can support itself just because one of its members goes into jail for years. Even if we assume that it does having that member work while inside and recoup the cost of the upkeep and the cost of benefits to the family is surely the better option than having no punishment just because "if we penailse the family will suffer". Hell no, in most cases the crims wouldn't work anyway and their families would be on benefits so not only do we not punish but also lose money and promote further criminal activities by not having any sort of real deterrent. And this is what the criminal system should be a huge hammer that hangs over everyone's heads reminding them that if they fYes, he should be suitably* punished for his actions but for the good of society, he should then be able to rebuild his life - if only to ensure his family (who are innocent in all this) are allowed a chance at a normal life. No-one is saying he should be forgiven.
Ultimately society has to be realistic in its expectations. If it wants to condemn criminals and their families to a life of no work and destitution then fine, but we all better man the f
k up and realise it's going to cost us ALL a lot of money, whilst growing society's underclass. The alternative is that those who have done wrong are punished, serve their time and then are helped to rebuild their lives (easing the strain on taxpayer as a result).You have to remove emotion from the decision and, unfortunately, treat it as a practical choice.
- the definition of this is for a qualified judge to decide.
k up they'll pay the price. And if you are an honest member of society that hammer will not affect you. That's how you keep a healthy body - by preventing diseases not by treating them after the fact by some leftwing withcraft that doesn't work.On the other hand we have a man who obviously had a decent career, if the value of his company car is anything to go by, who is now in jail and his life pretty much in tatters. If he his just left there to rot it is quite likely he will end up a burden on the state for the rest of his life. You must keep in mind that no matter what punishment is metered out, the crash would still have happened and the two girls will still not be able to ever walk. So where do we go from here? He should certainly be punished, but he needs to come out a reformed man, not a hardened criminal. Maybe he could have some sort of anger management and leave jail to help other people avoid getting into the situation he got into?
Artey said:
funkyrobot said:
Do you two want to give it a rest now?
This thread is about a serious incident involving road rage. If you want to fight, can you take it elsewhere?
Can you spell "patronising". How about you rewind a couple of pages back and see how this whole discussion started. I'm not fighting with anyone. Just stating facts which to the brainwashed lot seem like a blasphemy. This thread is about a serious incident involving road rage. If you want to fight, can you take it elsewhere?
I'm not derailing the thread any further.
Willy Nilly said:
On the one hand we have career criminals who continue to re-offend, which shows what ever we are doing isn't working well enough. If all you have ever know is a life of crime, you get caught and got to jail then get released without any rehabilitation or a means of supporting yourself, you will almost certainly go back to crime because it is the only thing you are qualified for. It doesn't really matter what method is used to break this cycle as long as the cycle is broken and the person gets released and doesn't re-offend.
On the other hand we have a man who obviously had a decent career, if the value of his company car is anything to go by, who is now in jail and his life pretty much in tatters. If he his just left there to rot it is quite likely he will end up a burden on the state for the rest of his life. You must keep in mind that no matter what punishment is metered out, the crash would still have happened and the two girls will still not be able to ever walk. So where do we go from here? He should certainly be punished, but he needs to come out a reformed man, not a hardened criminal. Maybe he could have some sort of anger management and leave jail to help other people avoid getting into the situation he got into?
+1On the other hand we have a man who obviously had a decent career, if the value of his company car is anything to go by, who is now in jail and his life pretty much in tatters. If he his just left there to rot it is quite likely he will end up a burden on the state for the rest of his life. You must keep in mind that no matter what punishment is metered out, the crash would still have happened and the two girls will still not be able to ever walk. So where do we go from here? He should certainly be punished, but he needs to come out a reformed man, not a hardened criminal. Maybe he could have some sort of anger management and leave jail to help other people avoid getting into the situation he got into?
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