In the news - Jaguar Land Rover Manager - Road Rage Crash
Discussion
zarjaz1991 said:
As sensible as that sounds, I can't make myself agree.
Some things are too far gone to come back from. This is one of them. He has proved himself too dangerous to drive a car again, and he is also probably behind rehabilitation. He has a serious mental problem and could "snap" at any time. The knowledge of having destroyed several lives permanently will only exacerbate that.
I hate saying this, but I can't get myself away from the conclusion that if he really does have any shred of decency in him, he should do the proper thing and end his own life. And I do apologise for having to state that opinion, it's not a gut reaction, it's the only calm and reasoned conclusion I can get to. I accept that probably makes me unsuitable to ever be involved in law making, luckily I recognise that and have no intention of ever doing so. A shame this bloke didn't have the same recognition of his unsuitablility to drive a car.
How very Japanese! Some things are too far gone to come back from. This is one of them. He has proved himself too dangerous to drive a car again, and he is also probably behind rehabilitation. He has a serious mental problem and could "snap" at any time. The knowledge of having destroyed several lives permanently will only exacerbate that.
I hate saying this, but I can't get myself away from the conclusion that if he really does have any shred of decency in him, he should do the proper thing and end his own life. And I do apologise for having to state that opinion, it's not a gut reaction, it's the only calm and reasoned conclusion I can get to. I accept that probably makes me unsuitable to ever be involved in law making, luckily I recognise that and have no intention of ever doing so. A shame this bloke didn't have the same recognition of his unsuitablility to drive a car.
I hope you hope you give your children more leeway when they inevitably make mistakes.
Am I being unfair if I suspect you don't have any, to have made some of your comments?
janesmith1950 said:
How very Japanese!
I hope you hope you give your children more leeway when they inevitably make mistakes.
Am I being unfair if I suspect you don't have any, to have made some of your comments?
No I don't have children and don't intend to, but I fail to see what difference that makes.I hope you hope you give your children more leeway when they inevitably make mistakes.
Am I being unfair if I suspect you don't have any, to have made some of your comments?
This bloke didn't "make a mistake" either, so the comparison fails. Of course people who make mistakes should be given leeway (generally). Where was the "mistake" made in this case?
janesmith1950 said:
Do you think he crashed into the oncoming car on purpose?
He lost his temper in purpose, he drove like a nob on purpose, so yes, in all truth, he did.He has forefeit any right to be a normal part of society. If he must live, then he must be under special restriction for the remainder of his life. He's mentally unstable and highly dangerous.
He should do the one and only decent and honourable action left open to him, and end his own life.
Edited by zarjaz1991 on Sunday 29th May 08:18
Mastiff said:
tenfour said:
It is a sad story and quite a chilling one.
It hammers home just how easy it is to cross the line. I am quite certain that each and every one of us has at some point in our lives fallen victim to the red mist. It happens, especially when we're young and have a point to prove. I know I've been there many a time, albeit thankfully where the net result is just an exchange of coffee beans and both parties go their separate ways. I always feel like an utter pleb for taking the bait thereafter, regardless of who was at fault.
Ironically it takes courage to brush off these incidents and let the offending party have his accident somewhere else. Clearly on this occasion our JLR guy let his ego get the better of him, with tragic consequences.
And on that note I think this thread has gotten the better of itself by two opposing and extreme points of view. I'm willing to bet the JLR guy woke up the morning of the accident the same way as the rest of us. I'm willing to bet he had friends and family who loved and respected him. To all intents and purposes, he was probably just a normal guy, with quite a cool job by the sounds of it. And that's what makes this case all the more frightening: he's not a deranged child rapist; he's not an armed robber and he's not a big time drug dealer. Just a normal guy doing normal things until about five minutes before his loss of judgement changed his and the lives of several other people for ever.
To that end I don't think it's easy to sympathize with him, but I think a lot of us will certainly be able to empathize. And so it's not a case that he should be burned to the stake, but rather his actions should serve as a warning to us all. That is what we all need to take away from this story. He will serve his time and thereafter he will need to somehow come to terms with the fact that there is a family out there who have been permanently affected by his actions: two girls will grow up disabled with all that entails. Likewise, his life will never be the same again: his friends and family will have deserted him and he'll never hold down a respectable job again. His sentence is a life sentence; all the more so because he was, prior to the accident, clearly a normal guy capable of rational thought and remorse (even if it's not obvious from the reporting).
As a side note, the Mazda driver cannot reasonably be implicated in this: she will most likely never forget the events of that day and hence that is it for her. I have no doubt that she'll never react to anyone's road rage again. Therefore, to suggest that she is somehow accountable is just nonsense. I dare say she misjudged an opening prior to the 'chase' and was therefore put in a position where she clearly felt threatened enough to try and remove herself from danger.
Subsequently, our thoughts should be with the girls and her family, and the JLR driver, if only so that we remember just how easily our lives can turn upside down in a flash.
Frankly, I am utterly terrified by what happened here and I know that when I next jump in the car, I'll think twice before getting upset at someone else's driving standards.
And yes, like them or loathe them, there is merit in driving a big car.
Good post - thank you.It hammers home just how easy it is to cross the line. I am quite certain that each and every one of us has at some point in our lives fallen victim to the red mist. It happens, especially when we're young and have a point to prove. I know I've been there many a time, albeit thankfully where the net result is just an exchange of coffee beans and both parties go their separate ways. I always feel like an utter pleb for taking the bait thereafter, regardless of who was at fault.
Ironically it takes courage to brush off these incidents and let the offending party have his accident somewhere else. Clearly on this occasion our JLR guy let his ego get the better of him, with tragic consequences.
And on that note I think this thread has gotten the better of itself by two opposing and extreme points of view. I'm willing to bet the JLR guy woke up the morning of the accident the same way as the rest of us. I'm willing to bet he had friends and family who loved and respected him. To all intents and purposes, he was probably just a normal guy, with quite a cool job by the sounds of it. And that's what makes this case all the more frightening: he's not a deranged child rapist; he's not an armed robber and he's not a big time drug dealer. Just a normal guy doing normal things until about five minutes before his loss of judgement changed his and the lives of several other people for ever.
To that end I don't think it's easy to sympathize with him, but I think a lot of us will certainly be able to empathize. And so it's not a case that he should be burned to the stake, but rather his actions should serve as a warning to us all. That is what we all need to take away from this story. He will serve his time and thereafter he will need to somehow come to terms with the fact that there is a family out there who have been permanently affected by his actions: two girls will grow up disabled with all that entails. Likewise, his life will never be the same again: his friends and family will have deserted him and he'll never hold down a respectable job again. His sentence is a life sentence; all the more so because he was, prior to the accident, clearly a normal guy capable of rational thought and remorse (even if it's not obvious from the reporting).
As a side note, the Mazda driver cannot reasonably be implicated in this: she will most likely never forget the events of that day and hence that is it for her. I have no doubt that she'll never react to anyone's road rage again. Therefore, to suggest that she is somehow accountable is just nonsense. I dare say she misjudged an opening prior to the 'chase' and was therefore put in a position where she clearly felt threatened enough to try and remove herself from danger.
Subsequently, our thoughts should be with the girls and her family, and the JLR driver, if only so that we remember just how easily our lives can turn upside down in a flash.
Frankly, I am utterly terrified by what happened here and I know that when I next jump in the car, I'll think twice before getting upset at someone else's driving standards.
And yes, like them or loathe them, there is merit in driving a big car.
In the vein of learning from this incident, is there any more info on the types of restraints used for the unfortunate children in the Vauxhall? Just wondering whether their similar injuries are down to use of a particular kind of booster or seat, or just a terrible consequence of the type of impact that occurred?
zarjaz1991 said:
janesmith1950 said:
Do you think he crashed into the oncoming car on purpose?
He lost his temper in purpose, he drove like a nob on purpose, so yes, in all truth, he did.He has forefeit any right to be a normal part of society. If he must live, then he must be under special restriction for the remainder of his life. He's mentally unstable and highly dangerous.
He should do the one and only decent and honourable action left open to him, and end his own life.
Edited by zarjaz1991 on Sunday 29th May 08:18
Could even do it at the side of the road, you know?? It would act as a great deterrent not to crash!
RWD cossie wil said:
What about every other driver that is at fault in an injury/death causing collision? Surely we should just execute them to prevent more collisions happening & "teach them a lesson?"
Could even do it at the side of the road, you know?? It would act as a great deterrent not to crash!
Im not advocating executing anyone. Could even do it at the side of the road, you know?? It would act as a great deterrent not to crash!
You can be at fault in an accident but have simply made an error of judgement. That is terrible but it lacks the background to this case, which was certainly not an error of judgement.
zarjaz1991 said:
RWD cossie wil said:
What about every other driver that is at fault in an injury/death causing collision? Surely we should just execute them to prevent more collisions happening & "teach them a lesson?"
Could even do it at the side of the road, you know?? It would act as a great deterrent not to crash!
Im not advocating executing anyone. Could even do it at the side of the road, you know?? It would act as a great deterrent not to crash!
You can be at fault in an accident but have simply made an error of judgement. That is terrible but it lacks the background to this case, which was certainly not an error of judgement.
heads actions were premeditated. Being involved in chasing the Mazda, driving dangerously, undertaking, the appalling right turn etc. An error of judgement is if I fail to notice a car in my blind spot and cause an issue (which could be fatal). dhead caused a massive change in peoples lives.Most people who commit such acts see themselves as the victim. d
head won't care about anything other than his job/career/family.And I don't advocate any form of death penalty/harakiri.
vikingaero said:
I agree that this wasn't an error of judgement. All of the dheads actions were premeditated. Being involved in chasing the Mazda, driving dangerously, undertaking, the appalling right turn etc. An error of judgement is if I fail to notice a car in my blind spot and cause an issue (which could be fatal). dhead caused a massive change in peoples lives.
Most people who commit such acts see themselves as the victim. dhead won't care about anything other than his job/career/family.
And I don't advocate any form of death penalty/harakiri.
I'm against the death penalty, but there a small minority of cases where the culprit should do the decent thing and "press the off button".heads actions were premeditated. Being involved in chasing the Mazda, driving dangerously, undertaking, the appalling right turn etc. An error of judgement is if I fail to notice a car in my blind spot and cause an issue (which could be fatal). dhead caused a massive change in peoples lives.Most people who commit such acts see themselves as the victim. d
head won't care about anything other than his job/career/family.And I don't advocate any form of death penalty/harakiri.
This man has not only ruined a family's lives, but he has also ruined his own. He has no hope of ever supporting himself or anyone else ever again. He has no hope of rehabilitation or redemption. He was already dangerously mentally unstable, the knowledge of what he has done will make him more so. He has only one honourable course of action left open to him. He could at least do that and people might think marginally better of him.
Edited by zarjaz1991 on Sunday 29th May 09:29
I can't look at pictures of those children any more. It is rare for me to have much more than a passing emotional reaction to cases of this ilk, but I really, really despise this man. I think it's the sheer avoidabiility of it all. I actually want him to top himself. I'm not sure I'm particularly proud of feeling this way but it is what it is.
zarjaz1991 said:
He has only one honourable course of action left open to him. He could at least do that and people might think marginally better of him.
Weirdly, despite being just about the most soft, PC, liberal on PH, I thought the same thing. But perhaps it's because I'm such a softy that I think that's what I'd do. Randy Winkman said:
Weirdly, despite being just about the most soft, PC, liberal on PH, I thought the same thing. But perhaps it's because I'm such a softy that I think that's what I'd do.
I'd certainly do it if it were me. Partly because I'm a craven coward, but mostly because I'd feel it would be the only thing I could do to help the victims....so that they wouldn't have to live every day paralysed, but knowing I was up and about and absolutely fine. At the very least I'd have put them in a position where they were slightly better off than I was.zarjaz1991 said:
I'm against the death penalty, but there a small minority of cases where the culprit should do the decent thing and "press the off button".
This man has not only ruined a family's lives, but he has also ruined his own. He has no hope of ever supporting himself or anyone else ever again. He has no hope of rehabilitation or redemption. He was already dangerously mentally unstable, the knowledge if what he has done will make him more so. He has only one honourable course of action left open to him. He could at least do that and people might think marginally better of him.
I think you're just trolling. No normal person capable of compassion and reason would write something quite so autistic, otherwise.This man has not only ruined a family's lives, but he has also ruined his own. He has no hope of ever supporting himself or anyone else ever again. He has no hope of rehabilitation or redemption. He was already dangerously mentally unstable, the knowledge if what he has done will make him more so. He has only one honourable course of action left open to him. He could at least do that and people might think marginally better of him.
tenfour said:
I think you're just trolling. No normal person capable of compassion and reason would write something quite so autistic, otherwise.
No, I'm not "trolling", I wish people wouldn't say that every time they disagree with someone.I just have a different opinion to you, that's all. Having such a thing doesn't mean I lack compassion, nor does it make me autistic.
zarjaz1991 said:
I'd certainly do it if it were me. Partly because I'm a craven coward, but mostly because I'd feel it would be the only thing I could do to help the victims....so that they wouldn't have to live every day paralysed, but knowing I was up and about and absolutely fine. At the very least I'd have put them in a position where they were slightly better off than I was.
Of course you would, you know you would because you're typing it on an internet forum so it's true.None of us know how we'd react in that situation - I've been half a second away from obliterating someone (literally) because I switched off for a second and whenever I think "I wonder what would have happened" there is simply no way I can say with any certainty how I would have coped with whatever would have ensued.
Different situation in that I switched off vs. turning into a road-rage prick but in the sense of never intending it to happen, I don't think any of us know what we'd do in the aftermath of that kind of situation until you're in it - except you who knows you'd definitely 100% kill yourself.
Weirdly I'd think it a little less twisted if you were simply advocating the death penalty for the guy (which I'd disagree with) instead of being quite so insistent that he should kill himself out of some kind of code of honour or whatever you'd call it.
Putting someone in a cell for a little while isn't really going to do anything. Aside from cost us tax payers a fortune. The only way this guy will ever fully appreciate what he has done is if he were made disabled for the rest of his life. Then he would actually have to live with the consequences of his own actions. Not that I am suggesting that. But some religions believe in "an eye for an eye".
I think a lot of people on this thread can possibly imagine themselves doing something stupid. From the replies it appears some seem more concerned with being able to get off lightly. To others no punishment is too severe for this guy. i think it comes down to how much empathy you have for those poor little girls. Or how wrapped up in your own bubble you may be.
I think a lot of people on this thread can possibly imagine themselves doing something stupid. From the replies it appears some seem more concerned with being able to get off lightly. To others no punishment is too severe for this guy. i think it comes down to how much empathy you have for those poor little girls. Or how wrapped up in your own bubble you may be.
zarjaz1991 said:
Randy Winkman said:
Weirdly, despite being just about the most soft, PC, liberal on PH, I thought the same thing. But perhaps it's because I'm such a softy that I think that's what I'd do.
I'd certainly do it if it were me. Partly because I'm a craven coward, but mostly because I'd feel it would be the only thing I could do to help the victims....so that they wouldn't have to live every day paralysed, but knowing I was up and about and absolutely fine. At the very least I'd have put them in a position where they were slightly better off than I was.k you to your friends and family. Can't imagine a single element of the scenario that would benefit the victims. bhstewie said:
hstewie said: Of course you would, you know you would because you're typing it on an internet forum so it's true.
None of us know how we'd react in that situation - I've been half a second away from obliterating someone (literally) because I switched off for a second and whenever I think "I wonder what would have happened" there is simply no way I can say with any certainty how I would have coped with whatever would have ensued.
Different situation in that I switched off vs. turning into a road-rage prick but in the sense of never intending it to happen, I don't think any of us know what we'd do in the aftermath of that kind of situation until you're in it - except you who knows you'd definitely 100% kill yourself.
Weirdly I'd think it a little less twisted if you were simply advocating the death penalty for the guy (which I'd disagree with) instead of being quite so insistent that he should kill himself out of some kind of code of honour or whatever you'd call it.
Ok, it's perhaps wrong of me to say I'd 'certainly' do it. I can't possibly know that. The correct phrase is "I'd like to think I would do it".None of us know how we'd react in that situation - I've been half a second away from obliterating someone (literally) because I switched off for a second and whenever I think "I wonder what would have happened" there is simply no way I can say with any certainty how I would have coped with whatever would have ensued.
Different situation in that I switched off vs. turning into a road-rage prick but in the sense of never intending it to happen, I don't think any of us know what we'd do in the aftermath of that kind of situation until you're in it - except you who knows you'd definitely 100% kill yourself.
Weirdly I'd think it a little less twisted if you were simply advocating the death penalty for the guy (which I'd disagree with) instead of being quite so insistent that he should kill himself out of some kind of code of honour or whatever you'd call it.
Beyond that, I stand by my opinions, though I do accept they are emotionally charged and I make no apology for that.
DonkeyApple said:
In that scenario you'd be offing yourself because you couldn't be arsed to dedicate the rest of your life to raising money and help for your victims. Offing ones self isn't an act of honour it's the ultimate running away from your problems and the final fk you to your friends and family. Can't imagine a single element of the scenario that would benefit the victims.
As I said, I would be a coward, so in that respect you are correct. And I am assuming my friends and family would have disowned me by then. They ought to have done.k you to your friends and family. Can't imagine a single element of the scenario that would benefit the victims. It's a bit silly this, because it's never going to happen so I will thankfully never know if I would follow my own belief. It's just how I would like to think I would handle it.
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