In the news - Jaguar Land Rover Manager - Road Rage Crash
Discussion
zarjaz1991 said:
DonkeyApple said:
In that scenario you'd be offing yourself because you couldn't be arsed to dedicate the rest of your life to raising money and help for your victims. Offing ones self isn't an act of honour it's the ultimate running away from your problems and the final f
k you to your friends and family. Can't imagine a single element of the scenario that would benefit the victims.
As I said, I would be a coward, so in that respect you are correct. k you to your friends and family. Can't imagine a single element of the scenario that would benefit the victims. It's a bit silly this, because it's never going to happen so I will thankfully never know if I would follow my own belief. It's just how I would like to think I would handle it.
Moving away from my own attention-seeking musings.....since this chap is not going to kill himself, how - realistically - SHOULD he handle it?
He's in prison for a few years yet. By then, the full extent and implication of the girls' injuries will be known. Let's assume the man is contrite and wants to do the right thing.....what, if anything, should he do? Would the parents or the girls themselves want him to?
He's in prison for a few years yet. By then, the full extent and implication of the girls' injuries will be known. Let's assume the man is contrite and wants to do the right thing.....what, if anything, should he do? Would the parents or the girls themselves want him to?
DonkeyApple said:
But if you already know that you wouldn't be able to cope with the consequences of your actions and would increase the damage by killing yourself, as you have no idea whether such an event will ever arise wouldn't it be prudent to just take yourself out now?
Well. Yes, I suppose. If I thought I might ever commit an act of enraged driving like this bloke has.However, I know for certain that I never will, so offing myself now in case I do something I know I never would, would make me seem arguably more mentally unstable than the chap in this accident.
zarjaz1991 said:
DonkeyApple said:
But if you already know that you wouldn't be able to cope with the consequences of your actions and would increase the damage by killing yourself, as you have no idea whether such an event will ever arise wouldn't it be prudent to just take yourself out now?
Well. Yes, I suppose. If I thought I might ever commit an act of enraged driving like this bloke has.However, I know for certain that I never will, so offing myself now in case I do something I know I never would, would make me seem arguably more mentally unstable than the chap in this accident.
zarjaz1991 said:
Moving away from my own attention-seeking musings.....since this chap is not going to kill himself, how - realistically - SHOULD he handle it?
He's in prison for a few years yet. By then, the full extent and implication of the girls' injuries will be known. Let's assume the man is contrite and wants to do the right thing.....what, if anything, should he do? Would the parents or the girls themselves want him to?
I know what I'd do; I'd become useful to society again. I'd seek to educate other road users as to the dangers of not controlling your emotions.He's in prison for a few years yet. By then, the full extent and implication of the girls' injuries will be known. Let's assume the man is contrite and wants to do the right thing.....what, if anything, should he do? Would the parents or the girls themselves want him to?
DonkeyApple said:
You don't know for certain. Best to take yourself out. Why on earth wait until you actually damage other lives?
I do know for certain.The most stupid annoying driver in the world could never get me into the state that bloke was clearly in. I'd just pull in and get out of their way, or whatever the situation needed. I just don't get angry when driving.
I could make a horrendous mistake and cause a crash, but that's not the scenario I'm talking about here.
DonkeyApple said:
I think the key is that regardless of the stereotype doing the bird flipping it is an error to react/respond.
I do wonder how the DailyMail reader is coping with this story though. We have three terrible types of human being all involved in one incident. We have the despised woman driver who dares to flip the bird at a man, the arrogant, condescending, all powerful SUV driver looking down on everyone and finally a car full of immigrants. I can only surmise they have to fall back on who has the largest mansion as the decider for hate ranking.
The long and short of it is that I think you are probably right that some people's view might alter depending on what stereotype was involved where (for example just imagine NP&E if the LR driver was Muslim and the girls were pure English) but I think everyone in this thread has taken the view that the LR driver is basically 100% at fault and that it is good that he received almost the maximum sentence possible for his actions.
I wish people were this critical of all news reporting . the world would be a better place. All too often we allow these people (journalists) to report through their lense, togetherwith their biases, prejudices, political and religious ideologies. in the main this bunch are homogenous even if you think we have 'choice' with a few newspapers. You really have to question the basics, even more so on the international level, because what we are drip fed is much like a story. The author purposely tells you what you should and should not know. Politicians know how to play journalists. They are sheep-following and too stupid to do any real investigative journalismI do wonder how the DailyMail reader is coping with this story though. We have three terrible types of human being all involved in one incident. We have the despised woman driver who dares to flip the bird at a man, the arrogant, condescending, all powerful SUV driver looking down on everyone and finally a car full of immigrants. I can only surmise they have to fall back on who has the largest mansion as the decider for hate ranking.
The long and short of it is that I think you are probably right that some people's view might alter depending on what stereotype was involved where (for example just imagine NP&E if the LR driver was Muslim and the girls were pure English) but I think everyone in this thread has taken the view that the LR driver is basically 100% at fault and that it is good that he received almost the maximum sentence possible for his actions.
Edited by silent ninja on Sunday 29th May 10:11
zarjaz1991 said:
DonkeyApple said:
You don't know for certain. Best to take yourself out. Why on earth wait until you actually damage other lives?
I do know for certain.The most stupid annoying driver in the world could never get me into the state that bloke was clearly in. I'd just pull in and get out of their way, or whatever the situation needed. I just don't get angry when driving.
I could make a horrendous mistake and cause a crash, but that's not the scenario I'm talking about here.
What are your various back up plans for different scenarios?
tenfour said:
I know what I'd do; I'd become useful to society again. I'd seek to educate other road users as to the dangers of not controlling your emotions.
Laudable.Would people take you seriously, do you think? Would organisations even allow you in to address audiences of people?
Would you not be thinking, every waking moment, about those girls and what their lives are now like, because of what you did?
This is the bit I keep coming back to, because I can't get my head around it. I genuinely can't comprehend how anyone could cope with that. I just...don't think I could.
DonkeyApple said:
Ok. I get it. The plan for offing yourself in a Japanese ceremony only applies to this very specific type of scenario.
What are your various back up plans for different scenarios?
Who said anything about ceremonies?What are your various back up plans for different scenarios?
You seem to want to ridicule my views. Can you not just argue with them sensibly? I completely get that many people won't agree with me, there's no need for the sarcasm.
I don't know about different scenarios. I'm talking about THIS scenario. I'm imagining that I had deliberately driven in this enraged manner and caused a crash, maiming innocent people as a result.
If you want to take action then there are petitions online complaining about the lax sentence.
From most other forum postings, Andrew Nay, was/has/still is being vilified for his actions, and deservedly so.
I don't think there's a forum where anyone supports or has any sympathy for him. Best posting on reddit: of the Week.
From most other forum postings, Andrew Nay, was/has/still is being vilified for his actions, and deservedly so.
I don't think there's a forum where anyone supports or has any sympathy for him. Best posting on reddit:
of the Week.vikingaero said:
If you want to take action then there are petitions online complaining about the lax sentence.
From most other forum postings, Andrew Nay, was/has/still is being vilified for his actions, and deservedly so.
I don't think there's a forum where anyone supports or has any sympathy for him. Best posting on reddit: of the Week.
Didn't he get close to the maximum sentence?From most other forum postings, Andrew Nay, was/has/still is being vilified for his actions, and deservedly so.
I don't think there's a forum where anyone supports or has any sympathy for him. Best posting on reddit:
of the Week.If so, I'm not sure what more anyone thinks can be done, apart from maybe change the law for future cases.
If the passengers had been killed, as happens unfortunately all too often, would this have grabbed headlines? If he never worked for JLR would this have grabbed headlines?
It's rightly grabbing headlines but for the wrong reasons. Just like the MCann case. People die and are kidnapped all the time, but unless it's wrapped in a story we don't care. Kinda sad really. Also sad many people vilifying the man probably have his symptoms every other day and won't connect that dot because... they're too enraged with the story.
It's rightly grabbing headlines but for the wrong reasons. Just like the MCann case. People die and are kidnapped all the time, but unless it's wrapped in a story we don't care. Kinda sad really. Also sad many people vilifying the man probably have his symptoms every other day and won't connect that dot because... they're too enraged with the story.
zarjaz1991 said:
DonkeyApple said:
Ok. I get it. The plan for offing yourself in a Japanese ceremony only applies to this very specific type of scenario.
What are your various back up plans for different scenarios?
Who said anything about ceremonies?What are your various back up plans for different scenarios?
You seem to want to ridicule my views. Can you not just argue with them sensibly? I completely get that many people won't agree with me, there's no need for the sarcasm.
I don't know about different scenarios. I'm talking about THIS scenario. I'm imagining that I had deliberately driven in this enraged manner and caused a crash, maiming innocent people as a result.
The wonderful thing about life is that you don't know the future and ultimately you don't know how you would react when something bad happens. But what you do know is that people who steadfastly and blindly refuse to acknowledge the variances of life and hold the view that something can never ever happen to them is being foolish. And ultimately foolish people are a hazard to others. None more so than the arrogant fool.
Events such is this horrific event are almost always as a result of social conditioning, life changes and things that generally happen over time to subtly adjust the decision making of a person. Someone totally calm and rational can ten years later be the exact sort of person capable of making the type of appalling error of judgement that led to this. To blindly and fervently live in denial of this risk or to believe that no one is changed by time or life experiences is extremely niaive and that is why I am having a light hearted dig at you.
Take ten minutes out to pop over to NP&E and read some of the posts about it being good if refugees were eaten by sharks or any of the other extreme, rage filled thoughts of grown men. Then ask yourself whether they were born like that or raised like that or whether with age a series of life events has just subtly changed them to be like that. For the majority it will be the latter.
No one knows who they will be in the future because no one knows what future events are going to envelop and change us. What we do know is that as we live our lives we will be changed by what occurs around us and what we do and that to take a snap shot of who are you are now and steadfastly state as fact that this is who you will be in a decade's time is erroneous. But what we can say is that that type of blind arrogance isn't a positive. It'll stop you from recognising the small changes that mount up and therefor stop you from dealing with them.
In my case I happen to have an eight year old little girl. So my sympathies are with the victims. Nothing is too harsh for the road rage moron. If I was the father of those victims I'd want to stone the guy to death. Nothing short of that would do, if I were in that devastating situation.
silent ninja said:
If the passengers had been killed, as happens unfortunately all too often, would this have grabbed headlines? If he never worked for JLR would this have grabbed headlines?
It's rightly grabbing headlines but for the wrong reasons. Just like the MCann case. People die and are kidnapped all the time, but unless it's wrapped in a story we don't care. Kinda sad really. Also sad many people vilifying the man probably have his symptoms every other day and won't connect that dot because... they're too enraged with the story.
It's grabbing the headlines partly because the guy was white collar and not some drug-abusing, knuckle-dragger from the deepest depths of Mordor. And also - crucially - because it's a situation we can all relate to, sometimes far more than we'd like.It's rightly grabbing headlines but for the wrong reasons. Just like the MCann case. People die and are kidnapped all the time, but unless it's wrapped in a story we don't care. Kinda sad really. Also sad many people vilifying the man probably have his symptoms every other day and won't connect that dot because... they're too enraged with the story.
As it happens, I got caught up in someone's daydream on this morning's commute and nearly created a big accident as I bared down on him, his car nearly stationary... texting merrily away. After I'd swerved to avoid our socialite friend, I immediately wanted to get out and stab him to death with my Starbucks. Instead though, I thought of this thread, took a deep breath (maybe two), swore a lot and then went on my way.
My job involves patience and politeness, and generally I am regarded as a very relaxed and down-to-earth person by my colleagues. It took every sinew of me to keep this morning's incident together, though. The red mist can afflict us all.
Ozzie Osmond said:
That's hardly a unique position. However, civilised people are unlikely to agree your proposal of stoning to death.
Very common problem with people who have children. They seem to think they have some sort of unique perspective on the world that needs explaining to everyone else.
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