Nurburgring in under 5 minutes possible?

[Theophany]

Troubleatmill said:

No. Not a chance in hell. F1 2016 cars are a st load slower than from 10 years ago

F1 cars are limited by regulations.

What a load of old cobblers. Hamilton smashed Schumi's 2004 lap record at Bahrain earlier this year and the leading drivers were either at or quicker than the 2004 Monaco lap record in FP2 yesterday. F1 cars 10 years ago were just as limited by regulations - grooved tyres, for example. The reason today's F1 cars aren't as blistering on a Sunday afternoon is because the tyres are garbage. The fact that modern F1 cars are doing this with crap tyres and severely limited aero developments is nothing short of amazing imo. Give the modern cars' developers mid-2000s era crazy aero freedom again and they'd be insanely quick.

[HustleRussell]

Actually I wonder when F1 downforce was at it's greatest then? Would it be the pre- coander double diffuser ban Red Bull or would it go back to the much earlier flat floor / ground effect cars?

Maybe if you consider downforce generated vs. drag penalty, F1 aero might be the best it's ever been now too?

[AMGJocky]

MRobbins1987 said:

Just let Joe loose in his polo gti, intimidating drl's, a dab of oppo on every corner and a new record will be set.

He's already done it. YouTube vid to follow soon.

On the grapevine, I've heard 2 mins 11 seconds mooted.

[J4CKO]

Yeah, throw away the F1 rulebook but use an F1 car as a starting point, crank the power up to 1000 bhp or more, use active aerodynamics like air brakes and make it autonomous so no driver has to risk certain death if it goes wrong.

I expect it would be fairly easy to model on a computer to get a hypothetical time.

[Gad-Westy]

Some tenuous maths here:

1983 Spa 1000 kms Pole Lap average speed was 119.98 mph (porsche 956)
2015 Spa F1 GP Pole Lap average speed was 146.15 mph (Merc F1)

The spa track changed slightly between those periods but the average speeds are for the length of circuit in each instance.

So making the very big assumption that a modern F1 car is 1.22x faster than a 956....

Stefan Bellof outright 'Ring lap record in the 1983 956: Average speed was 125.56 mph

So a 2015 F1 car might be expected to lap at an average speed of 153.18 mph which I think is 5m03s.

Edited by Gad-Westy on Friday 27th May 13:19

[SonicShadow]

Theophany said:

Troubleatmill said:

No. Not a chance in hell. F1 2016 cars are a st load slower than from 10 years ago

F1 cars are limited by regulations.

What a load of old cobblers. Hamilton smashed Schumi's 2004 lap record at Bahrain earlier this year and the leading drivers were either at or quicker than the 2004 Monaco lap record in FP2 yesterday. F1 cars 10 years ago were just as limited by regulations - grooved tyres, for example. The reason today's F1 cars aren't as blistering on a Sunday afternoon is because the tyres are garbage. The fact that modern F1 cars are doing this with crap tyres and severely limited aero developments is nothing short of amazing imo. Give the modern cars' developers mid-2000s era crazy aero freedom again and they'd be insanely quick.

That, and fuel management.

Remove the fuel flow limits and let Pirelli make a tyre that isn't designed to degrade artificially, and they'll be so much faster.

[PowerslideSWE]

HustleRussell said:

I think you’re wrong.

IIRC with the turbocharged engines and eight speed ‘boxes the current F1 cars are faster in a straight line than ever before. The regulations seem to particularly limit tyres and aero to bring braking points forward and mid-corner speeds down.

I actually think the tyres would’ve been faster in 2004 and the aero was probably greater too, nonetheless the current F1 cars aren’t a million miles away from lap record pace.

Current F1 car with 2004 aero and decent tyres, now you’re talking.

David Coulthard did 369 km/h (229,3 mp/h) at Monza being in the slipstream of Ricard Zonta. So they were fast before aswell, have not seen the turbo V6 muster up near that with or without a tow if I'm honest.

[C70R]

PowerslideSWE said:

HustleRussell said:

I think you’re wrong.

IIRC with the turbocharged engines and eight speed ‘boxes the current F1 cars are faster in a straight line than ever before. The regulations seem to particularly limit tyres and aero to bring braking points forward and mid-corner speeds down.

I actually think the tyres would’ve been faster in 2004 and the aero was probably greater too, nonetheless the current F1 cars aren’t a million miles away from lap record pace.

Current F1 car with 2004 aero and decent tyres, now you’re talking.

David Coulthard did 369 km/h (229,3 mp/h) at Monza being in the slipstream of Ricard Zonta. So they were fast before aswell, have not seen the turbo V6 muster up near that with or without a tow if I'm honest.

The relatively unknown Antonio Pizzonia (at almost 230mph) is the one you're looking for, in Italy in 2004.

[SpydieNut]

Vyse said:

After watching old Nick tip toe around the ring a few years ago, it was estimated by the BMW engineers a full time attack would be in the region of 5:20. If you could find the most suicidal of drivers, along with the best F1 car, setup so that it was perfect for the track, would a sub 5 minute be possible?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TA2yYohW1Vs

- i don't really care about the time, but that's a great clip - the speed is immense and the noise on the drive by

[Vyse]

In terms of absolute speed and acceleration the current F1 cars are still miles behind the 2004/5 cars. A high speed circuit like Monza is best for showing the difference.

As the ring is also a high speed circuit I think the gap between a 2016 and 2004/5 on it would surprise some.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUtNwm4qIpc

[Troubleatmill]

Theophany said:

Troubleatmill said:

No. Not a chance in hell. F1 2016 cars are a st load slower than from 10 years ago

F1 cars are limited by regulations.

What a load of old cobblers. Hamilton smashed Schumi's 2004 lap record at Bahrain earlier this year and the leading drivers were either at or quicker than the 2004 Monaco lap record in FP2 yesterday. F1 cars 10 years ago were just as limited by regulations - grooved tyres, for example. The reason today's F1 cars aren't as blistering on a Sunday afternoon is because the tyres are garbage. The fact that modern F1 cars are doing this with crap tyres and severely limited aero developments is nothing short of amazing imo. Give the modern cars' developers mid-2000s era crazy aero freedom again and they'd be insanely quick.

Here you go.
http://www.topgear.com/car-news/formula-one/just-h...

Now.. imagine you can design a car - without any need to comply to any regulation.....
The Red Bull example being a case in point.

You design the fastest race car possible.... the aero is going to be different, heck even the Lotus dual chassis/ ground skirts could be back in play...

F1 cars are compromised - as they have to be built to meet F1 regulations.


Just my £0.02.

[Talksteer]

FourWheelDrift said:

2016 cars have been around 2 seconds per lap faster than 2006 in qualifying at the comparable circuits so far this year (Melbourne & Bahrain). Hamilton breaking the qualifying lap record at Bahrain this year which was set in the V10 era.

The 2010 F1 cats beat some of the 2004 cars at qualifying.

This was due to the fact that these cars were able to run the DRS in qualifying as much as they wanted.

Of the 2016 F1 cars were able to run DRS all the time and switch off the fuel regulations they would easily be the fastest F1 cars by a good margin.

This would let them do a sub five minute run without much of a problem.